Noobs that lack common courtesy

Ok, Recovering Aircraft and riding birds is not as easy as it sounds. When you are ejected from your craft and make a 3 or 4 sim transit before stopping it is impossible to know where the aircraft or bird ended up. I never even tried to find mine. Most likely they ended up in a hostile place where ban lines and security scripts rule. Most of the time the nice residents have the autoreturn on and some of them just delete them.
It is possible that the newbie with the aircraft got so upset at being unseated she or he will never come back to Second Life. If this would of happened to me (when newbie), I would of quit too! You need to set your land on autoreturn and you will not have a problem. You will just need to make things with your group tag on.

Personally, I'm happy to disable "Run Other Scripts" even on popular parcels used by furries.
If they're not prepared to take the one-time trouble to join the group, and the 15 seconds to change active group and reattach their scripts when they enter the parcel, then clearly their scripts are really not that vital.
Turning off all the scripts attached to avatars when they enter my parcel reduces active scripts (and thus lag) by a whole ton, especially when the parcel has ~30 avs on it.
It also helps combat griefing, people using your parcel as a sandbox, stalking via use of radar, and lots of other problems as well as combatting lag.

--- EDIT :
If you don't want people in your house, use a security device to eject or ban them when they come into your home without your permission.

As a newbie, myself (just approachingthe end of my first month), I would say, first, that not all recently-created accounts equals a new resident. Clearly, griefers of all sorts can create a new account at whim and log on. However, I believe that part of the problem with genuinely new and cllueless newbies has to do with Help Island. For one, you are not required to stay there for any specified period of time or absorb any specified amount of information. when I asked a Help Island Mentor how long we should stay, the only response was, "As long as you want." Well no one *wants* to stay in an incubated environment for long, imagining she is missing some huge party on the mainland. That doesn't, however, mean that one *shouldn't* stay. There is also a huge emphasis on rezzing, texturing, and manipulating prims. The impression one gets from being on Help Island is that building is an essential tool and will be your primary occupation when you get to the Main. This is, of course, far from the truth. Most are more likely to buy than build and you actually only need to understand *very* little about prims in order to live well. Finally, there is a sever lack of "cultural" information on Help Island, and it is the cultural misunderstanding tat seems to run the most rampant. It really is unfair to unleash a new residennt onto the main grid without explaining the rules of the society they are about to join. Yes, you *can* find this information via other sources, but why shouldn't Help Island serve this function?

At least I don't feel like the only one anymore.

I have had a few bouts with rude ones where I live, one in particular had made several attempts to open my locked front door. I see it is refusing him and call out if they needed any help. When I go downstairs to go out the door and greet him, I get sideswiped as he bolts in the house without even saying hello.

He was told to leave numerous times but as I am not able to ban or eject from property I had to try every means possible to get this jerk out of my home. Ridiculous as it sounds, he actually had the nerve to tell me to leave - he was taking over the rent and then asked me to bum $1L.

My husband finally got him out, but had to wait til the guy laid on our bed and then dump him outside. The nuisance hung around for another 30 min or so bugging us to bum "just a $1L" as he put it, paying no attention to us telling him where he could go to make his own cash. Finally hubby got sick of it and grabbed him with his gravity gun. Once he had been flung across the yard a few times he called a truce and had the nerve to ask if we would do that to someone in rl.

WTF

Would you honestly have the nerve to barge in someone's home and refuse to leave in rl?

I'm sorry, I'll be one of the first to lend someone a hand in the game, but treat others as you want to be treated! I swear my 5 yr old has more respect for others than some of these problem players.

I'll agree that the current registration process is largely to blame for the lack of 'socialization' that the new people are getting. The less 'civilized' a person is to begin with, the more likely they are to blow past all the training stations on orientation island, ignore all the notecards, and as soon as they hit Help Island, head for the mainland to "play". On the other hand, a person who is more mature and socially responsible will instead take the time to read at least some of the orientation information that they get on the way in the door, and will try to learn a while on Help Island before heading to the mainland.

At the very least, they need more exposure to basic concepts like "The main focus of SL is NOT 'shoot anything that moves'. " and "Individual Players own most of the land in SL. Respect the property rights of others : Don't enter homes or build on non-Linden property without permission.".

I've maintained for a while now that there should be some requirement that a person spend at least a minimum number of hours, not mere minutes, on Help Island, and then be required to demonstrate in some manner that they know and understand the rules, before they can come to the mainland. Maybe if they had to pass an 'entrance test' before they can TP to the mainland? Questions readily explained in the notecards available in orientation or in Help Island, and for that matter easily enough answered by a civilized person with a little common sense?

I have the original one of these
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=63538

it seems to have become Mecca for newbies. I even found a group of them using it and another boat and RPing pirates. I don't mind people looking at my builds, however if my land is "locked" for some reason, DON'T IM ME ASKING TO BE LET IN!!!

Another thing,

I came online last night, about 11:00 pm est. There was a guy in my house testing out EVERY poseball, when I asked him why he was doing it his response was "because I can"
I questioned him further and he became belligerent, so I banned him from my land. He came back later after learning the "sit on a prim and move it" trick. So I returned the prim he was sitting on and his client crashed

I think there should be a "common deceny" station on Orientation Island

hehe, actually I've found pointing and bursting out laughing to be very effective! I still remember this sort of pushy neighbor guy who used to like to drop by unannounced at my spa pool and make suggestive comments. The last time, he stripped naked and out popped this ENORMOUS erm.. attachment (a joke one I think ).. well, I couldn't help it and just burst out laughing telling him how hilarious he looked.. come to think of it, I never saw him again (even clothed!) after that.

Is there any place in orientation that they give incoming new folks a notecard with basic cultural/social dos and don'ts, the way Uncle Sugar used to give GIs going overseas little pamphlets with simple guidance about what you should and shouldn't do when you are in a particular foreign country?

The situation seems analagous. As a number of posters have pointed out, it's mostly just folks not knowing what the usual parameters are, rather than defiantly setting out to be the grandest uber-goobers they can be (though yes, I know there is a certain percentage of those too).

If there ain't such a thing, it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a simple set of bullet-point suggestions on how to behave and avoid the sort of social faux-pas that lead to getting chased down by an angry passle of of irritated locals and booted/banned back to the stone age.

This happened in my sim just the other day, Ceera! We had four copies of the plane, and a car, left at random spots on the island. You suppose it was the same newb, or just the same plane?


We had a similar issue recently. A newb came on and actually started building a nice, complex build on one of my blank rental lots. I returned his objects and IMmed him with an explanation that this was private property, and that if he wanted to build he should either buy/rent some land or find a sandbox. I even explained what a sandbox was. What do I get? A rude reply threatening to report me; I banned his account from the sim.

Now, I try to be nice to newbies I see on my land, and give them tips and help them out. I like meeting new residents, and have had some great conversations and made some lasting Friends just by talking to people who were playing on my roof pool, and giving them a tour of my house. I like being able to leave my property open, I don't like the floating red text. So far I haven't had to many major problems, but if I do I'll restrict access to my home, and that's not something I want to happen.

Such a list would just serve to give them more ideas.

I had a guy on my shop the other night with a case of priapistic exhibitionism trying to come on to me. Poor thing, he seemed rather desperate. "PLEASE, just lick it," etc.

I guess I don't do much of anything with these cases cause like someone else said, they act like 5-year-olds, so I treat them just as I would a 5-year-old.

coco

Hate to say it - It isnt just new people.

I have spoken to people whose profiles say they have been here since day one and they can still use the most vile language and have no clue what manners mean.

Yet I have seen new people who are as polite as you could want, with "excuse me" and "thank you"

Its not just new people - its the whole web culture.

So.... you licked it then?

ZOMGAGEPLAY11!!!!eleven!!11!

To be fair though - you did pay me extra to talk dirty....

There's no information about proper behavior at Help Island, except for a big billboard asking you not to use guns in non-gun areas and to keep your clothes on. Unfortunately, I tried on some hair and managed to remove all my clothes at the same time, in the middle of the freebies store. It took me a while to figure out how to put them back on.

I think people are used to game worlds where you can wander anywhere and do anything because the world is owned by the developer. At first it's hard to make the mental leap to seeing every place as someone's property. I've probably wandered into a few people's houses without realizing it.

I'm guessing we forgot this evening of bliss

http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=1777

I have also had people start trying to build a home on my front lawn, just bold as brass. Fortunately, one of the parcel owners was there, and she returned all their prims, and gave them the heave ho.

But as was mentioned, nowhere on Orientation Island or Help Island does the matter of common courtesy or property rights seem to be properly addressed. I created a new alt recently. She is, in fact, still on orientation island, as I created her to secure a surname for later use, and I have no intention of doing any RP with her yet. But as I strolled around with her for quite a while, looking at the current state of things on the entry islands, I saw nothing of note about such matters. Plenty of tutorials on how to build and how to texture and how to script. A nice freebie store with some basic clothes, homes and avatars, and even a place to practice driving vehicles. Yes, a few signs saying it was NOT OK to use weapons on the island. But I don't recall anywhere that warned folks that you can't just walk into every building that you see and do what you damned well please. And though they had a practice sandbox area, I don't recall any warnings that said you can't build wherever you feel like it.

I think a lot of these rude ones are kids whose closest equivalent experience is playing some game like Baldur's Gate, where the only way to 'win' is to look inside every chest and bookshelf, to take almost anything that isn't nailed down, and to kill almost anything they encounter. The concept that the people they encounter are ALL other Players, and not a bunch of non player characters that are there to be shot at, or monsters there to be slain, is a very new concept for them.

Hi, I'm a bit of a noob, but it sounds to me like your argument is "noobs should know their place."

If it's not, then it's a matter of theory. The price of our own freedom is the freedom of everyone else.

In terms of history, I've met a lot of people in SL. Some noobs have been pretty rude, but the meanest, rudest person I've ever met in SL was a veteran player and SL mentor.

I haven't had to ban a single person from my lot, and I get noobs all the time. If you want to restrict access from unverifieds, that's just absurd. I can't believe LL gave us the means to segregate ourselves in such a classist, elitist manner. I wonder if LL has seperate white and black bathrooms.

It's a matter of when it happens to you. You should probably know the poem by Martin Niemöller, and a lot of the people in SL, including LL employees, live in glass houses.

But seriously, replace the word noob in your arguments with "furries" or "geeks" or "homosexuals" or whatever you want, and maybe, just maybe, you could see things from the other end of the barrel.

I think ppl when beginning should get a "best places" to go... They don't have to name any one particular place, but mention what a sandbox is... I sure as heck didn't know what it was till someone mentioned it on here... :/

I do admit the poster seemed a bit.. well I'll just say the delivery was maybe not the best.. But don't confuse the method with the message...

I think part of the problem is SL is so much different to the other online games that these people maybe had previously played, its not a problem as such with SL, more a problem with some other multiplayer online games.

I came to SL after spending almost 3 years playing Ultima Online, in that game it was generally accepted that anything you didnt need or took from inventory to look at and decided it wasnt very good, you just left on the ground and it disappeared after 10 minutes or so.

It was even a nice thing to do, most newbies in that game pick up stuff like that and sell or use it, because when you start there almost anything is better than what you have.

So when I came to SL I just built/rezzed things wherever I could, I figured if you could then it must be allowed(some places I had tried to rez it said "not allowed" so I assumed the places that did allow me to rez it must be allowed), sounds silly but I thought all land without houses was like common land, I knew nothing about land size, prim allowances etc, had no concept at all because I was used to dropping things wherever I wanted.

Yes so maybe would have been good if I had learned more about how SL worked, but I should think very few read through pages and pages of information, they just want to jump in, I had actually read quite a lot about SL before I started but information like the above is actually not stated very clearly if at all.

Another factor was during my time in UO, I had learned when people came to talk to you or stand watching you, there was a 85% chance they were going to either grief you or accuse you of doing something that was interfering with "their" game, like they had more right to be there than you in what was a multiplayer game, thus I had developed a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude to other players, this is actually why I left UO.

So anyway in about my second week here I was trying to build something on what I now realise was somones island sim, all of a sudden these 2 players turn up and start telling me Im not allowed to etc, fortunately by then I had been in SL long enough to find a majority of people dont mean you harm, I said "sorry I had no idea", they gave me a sandbox LM(I had previously thought sand boxes were like for an exibition of master works etc because the stuff there was so good), the 2 people were nice enough after a minute or two but I still felt embarrassed and silly, there are two reactions to this arent there, you either fight with them or you get away from the situation quick, I chose the second.

But if this had happened a week earlier, when I was very new, Id have probably kept my UO mentality and would have maybe just ignored them or felt ganged up upon and reacted in a hostile way, simply because the only land people had any right to challenge you over was their own house in UO, and so many there acted like they owned the whole place when they had no more right to be there than you.

Once I found out that infact almost all land in SL was actually owned by other players and the objects actually had a cost to those people of course I realised how selfish and ignorant Id seemed to those 2 people, and was very glad I had not reacted how I might have a week earlier.

Now Im not saying thats the case in all these seemingly rude people, all I know is I like to think Im not an unfair person but if in my first day or two here, I had felt hassled by people for doing what I thought was perfectly fine I may have reacted in a similar way.

I did say "felt hassled", this does not mean you were actually hassling them, in Ultima a lot who were about to grief you acted in a very polite way(to lull you) or just stood near you ominously saying nothing until whatever they were planning took place, so it became second nature to view all other players with suspicion and shoot first and ask questions later.

And yes, Im very glad I left that game lol

First the good deed announcement for teh day for people who can't find vehicles tehy have been ejected from:

That Mini-Map you have? Your prims show up in this gawd-awfull bright cynan (bluish green for the un-artistic), so makes finding anything over 3x3 meters fairly easy to locate. Msot vehicles are large enough to fall into this catagory. They even show underground or 60million meters up. The trick only comes in finding at what height they are. Plus, once finding the craft, you can always send an "Oopsy" IM to the landowner saying you're sorry, and if they can return prims by your name as you can't find it vetically.

Next, Not just noobs, but anyone rude enough to walk into my house (I have locked doors) gets TP-Home/Landbanned. Rude behavior also earns the same and possible AR. Building on my land gets told to remove it, and then TP-Home/Landbanned/ARed if they don't.

All hail the Golden Rule. Treat others as you would like to be treated. And yes, if I do something as stupid as the above, please kick my arse.

~Jessy

Not at all. I'm saying that noobs, as well as anyone else, should behave like civilised members of SL society, and not like burgulars, vandals and squatters. The problem I observed is that an exceptionally large percentage of the new people coming in to SL don't seem to have any concept of civilized behavior, or don't think it applies to them.

Are there rude people who have been here for some time? Certainly. I never said there were not. But that isn't what we are discussing here.

I don't care if a person has been in SL since day one, or is a Linden, or is a furry, or is a Gorean, or has just joined yesterday. They should not walk into other people's homes as if the home was a public mall. They should not build things on other people's property and leave them behind like trash. When told politely that they are abusing someone else's property, they should not ignore or be rude to people who have spent a significant amount of time and money trying to make something nice in SL.

Linden Labs allows people to purchase and own land, and to build homes and businesses in SL. Many residents take that seriously, and put a lot of effort into making nice homes and businesses, and into making that investment something they can enjoy.

We, as established participants, could do a better job of informing new participants of the expected acceptable behaviors. What is available as you go through new character creation hardly touches on issues that cause a lot of unnecessary friction between new people and other residents.

In the real world, would these people consider walking onto someone's yard, taking off their clothes, and dancing around on the homeowner's patio?

In the real world, would these people walk into a stranger's home and use their bed? Or help themselves to the use of the hot tub?

In the real world, would they consider it OK to dig up someone's front yard, and start building a house? Without even attempting to buy the land?

In the real world, would they walk onto a stranger's home waving a gun around?

Why do these people think it's OK in Second Life?

The price of a civilized society is behaving in a civilized manner. It isn't a question of 'freedom'. It's a question of respecting each other, and not treating everything and everyone around you as if it was of no value.

LL should just change the name 'Second Life' to 'Assclowns R Us' to accurately describe the residents they seem to actually want.

That's a neat trick!! (returning the seated prim...)

How would he report that crash...
"I was being a PITA and the land owner returned the prim I was seated on 8( !!"
LOL!!

=B-)

I think it would help me to understand your position if you chose one.

"I don't care if a person has been in SL since day one, or is a Linden, or is a furry, or is a Gorean, or has just joined yesterday. They should not walk into other people's homes as if the home was a public mall."

"Noobs that lack common courtesy"



But to me, if someone comes in dancing around naked, I'd be much happier to have them than someone who looks down on other people and stereotypes them. Maybe we just have different priorities.

Remind me never to play UO!

coco