Forum Moderation Idea
|
|
MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
|
01-31-2006 09:46
From: Pendari Lorentz While I think your post was tongue in cheek, you actually bring up a valid point.  I already started a discussion in the ResMod forum about whether or not we should have signatures showing or not. I've purposely not been showing mine till the discussion leads to some resolution. Perhaps Icons and Titles should be included in that? In my short stint of being ResMod, my signature was brought into question quite quickly and even though I hated doing it, I just simply removed it to not feed the fuel persay. If you are wanting to gain the respect (IMO, no matter what you remove, do or say, unless your last name is linden, its not gonna happen) then it should probably be removed or replaced with a cute little bunny! and just put Resmod in place of Bosslady. MJ P.S. Not just you, all Resmods. Also, I would like to add that I don't agree with this. Personally, I don't care what is in your sig, what your icon is, or what is under the title. All, I care about is the ResMods are doing what is required of them by LL and that is good enough for me. |
|
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
|
01-31-2006 10:12
From: MJ Hathor
P.S. Not just you, all Resmods. Also, I would like to add that I don't agree with this. Personally, I don't care what is in your sig, what your icon is, or what is under the title. All, I care about is the ResMods are doing what is required of them by LL and that is good enough for me.
I think a big problem is that this thing has been so poorly thought out that it is just silly. Eboni is right - you can't tell who is or is not a moderator in a thread. I can't tell if someone is posting in a capacity as a moderator, or just to post. There are way too many moderators on one forum - how many moderators need to chime in about the same damn thread? The whole thing is just ill-advised, badly implemented, and unnecessary, and the longer it continues, the more annoying it gets.
_____________________
Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
|
|
MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
|
01-31-2006 10:21
From: Cristiano Midnight I think a big problem is that this thing has been so poorly thought out that it is just silly. Eboni is right - you can't tell who is or is not a moderator in a thread. I can't tell if someone is posting in a capacity as a moderator, or just to post. There are way too many moderators on one forum - how many moderators need to chime in about the same damn thread? The whole thing is just ill-advised, badly implemented, and unnecessary, and the longer it continues, the more annoying it gets. I absolutely agree that there are too many in one forum. As of right now, the Resmods are all assigned to all the "Discussion" forums. Jeska did say that in the near future there will be assigned forums...when this will happen who knows. Also, I imagine it isn't easy for them to all work together and to know when one is going to act on something or respond to something. Yes, its hard to tell who's a mod in a thread if you just reading the thread and new to the forums. I'm sure all these concerns are being talked about and hopefully a resolution will be met. MJ |
|
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
|
01-31-2006 10:24
From: Cybin Monde it's been proven in both directions actually. the discussion started out intelligently, but eventually the OP use of the word "'tard" was called into question and not surprisingly so....
so Dianne, your point is fairly well proven here. i don't know if i'd suggest any extra incentives though.. the ability to acheive rewards due to forum posting would just be one more thing that could be scrutinized and theorized about favoritism and could cause further dissent. a bummer, but history makes me think this would end up happening.
i'd rather see people take the notion of positive posting and run with it, with no need of reward except for the sole reward of having healthier discussion and improving the overall intrinsic value of these official forums. Well I noted right at the beginning that the difficult point would be exactly how something like this would be configured. Specifically what kind of "reward" for positive behavior could there be? To that end I started a new thread about it, cause this one has devolved slightly (as noted). Please look at it here: /108/e1/85520/1.html#post870300Just for the last word on the "Tard" situation... Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a hateful person by any means and I meant no offense using that word which has in fact been used regularly on the forums for a long time by many others. I will try not to use it again, but I can't promise. It is almost the standard forum appellation for an aggressive or stupid poster. My purpose in choosing that word was threefold. First, it is humorous and almost everyone who talked to me about the post mentioned they thought it was funny also. My intent was to paraphrase that famous line about having seen the enemy, and the enemy is ourselves. "I have seen the tard, and the tard is me!" I have found that people are far more receptive to my posts if I use humor in them and that was mostly the point. To talk about negative behavior is a difficult thing, to actually accuse everyone in the forum of doing it is harder still. I thought the humor to be essential in that case otherwise no one would actually read what I said, they would just get horribly mad and it would not end well. Secondly, through the intentional over-repitition of the term, I meant to defuse it and thus render it harmless by pointing out (in perhaps too subtle of a fashion), that it is just a word. This happens all the time with words. A two year old can use the word "jerk" today with impunity, yet in 1920 it was one of the more disgusting things you could call someone. People should just lighten up in general and let the language evolve perhaps. Third, I used it because I don't agree with "second wave" PC language where every word that could possibly be conceived of as hurtful to any living being is eradicated from the language. If a word is culturally or socially biased and has a reasonable alternative, I use that alternative. If the intent is merely to "be PC" (second wave), and the word has no alternative phrase that makes any kind of sense, I don't. "Special Needs" is a classic case of this in that it is IMO a meaningless term that was made up to keep people feeling happy. Note - Historically "Tard" is short for the pejorative term "Retard" which is a shortening of the clinical term "Retarded." There was never anything wrong with the specific clinical term "Retarded" until it started being used in it's shortened, pejorative sense. Since we are now one more level removed from even that, and since the clinical term "retarded" has itself been out of use for more than 20 or 30 years, I suspect that it is sufficiently disconnected from its roots as to not really mean the same thing anymore. I doubt whether most kids today calling each other "tards" even know the origin of the word. Apologies to anyone offended, and I will *try* not to use it anymore. |
|
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
|
01-31-2006 10:31
From: MJ Hathor I absolutely agree that there are too many in one forum. As of right now, the Resmods are all assigned to all the "Discussion" forums. Jeska did say that in the near future there will be assigned forums...when this will happen who knows. Also, I imagine it isn't easy for them to all work together and to know when one is going to act on something or respond to something. Yes, its hard to tell who's a mod in a thread if you just reading the thread and new to the forums. I'm sure all these concerns are being talked about and hopefully a resolution will be met.
MJ The fact that not even the basics of things were figured out in advance is pretty frustrating, and it is becoming disruptive to the forums now. It's hard to tell whose a mod in a thread for anyone, not just those new to the forums. Ultimately I am sure this stuff will be settled, but the lack of foresight on it and the turmoil it causes in the meantime is quite frustrating. What you have is a system that few people seem to really want or think necessary, where now they are scrambling to figure things out. The net result is chaotic.
_____________________
Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.
|
|
MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
|
01-31-2006 10:43
From: Cristiano Midnight The fact that not even the basics of things were figured out in advance is pretty frustrating, and it is becoming disruptive to the forums now. It's hard to tell whose a mod in a thread for anyone, not just those new to the forums. Ultimately I am sure this stuff will be settled, but the lack of foresight on it and the turmoil it causes in the meantime is quite frustrating. What you have is a system that few people seem to really want or think necessary, where now they are scrambling to figure things out. The net result is chaotic. Well said. This is a perfect example of how to get your point across with critique without so much hatred being so obvious. Most of my reactions have been towards those type of post. I wish they could all be more like this. MJ |
|
Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
|
01-31-2006 10:45
From: David Valentino Well Coco, I do agree that the term "tard" isn't nice. I just thought you over reacted and got a bit overly dramatic about it. It is a relatively small deal when used in the context that it was. I don't like it when kids use the word "gay" to tease thier buddies or to put someone down either. However, I'm not going to yell about it being hate speech, but merely point out that it's not a nice thing to do, and other words would probably be better in such situations, like "goofball", "dork" or idiot...
So while I agree with some of your feelings on the issue, I do think you went all "drama queen" on it. Haha - if you think I went all drama queen on it, you never heard Walba Threadkiller on the TSO boards! She taught such children, and believe me, after she got done about it, you didn't DARE say that in her presence or on those boards. The hate speech part - I was referring to the TOS. It's not what I normally call hate speech, such as when I'm speaking to my girls, no. Because I know it is not intended that way. But somewhere in the TOS is something about intolerance and not allowing things like that - thus my reference to hate speech. coco |
|
Cybin Monde
Resident Moderator (?)
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,468
|
for now
01-31-2006 10:45
ok, until something better is implemented, if at all, i've changed my forum title from "Grand Rego" to "Resident Moderator". hopefully we can get some sort of icon instead, but this will work for now. i hope it helps. 
_____________________
"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it."
- Philip Linden
"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be."
- Willy Wonka (circa 1971)
SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
|
|
StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
|
01-31-2006 10:54
From: David Valentino Well Coco, I do agree that the term "tard" isn't nice. I just thought you over reacted and got a bit overly dramatic about it. It is a relatively small deal when used in the context that it was. I don't like it when kids use the word "gay" to tease thier buddies or to put someone down either. However, I'm not going to yell about it being hate speech, but merely point out that it's not a nice thing to do, and other words would probably be better in such situations, like "goofball", "dork" or idiot...
So while I agree with some of your feelings on the issue, I do think you went all "drama queen" on it. the impact of (and thus how offensive) the terms "tard" and "gay" (meant as a putdown) are depends largely if you are are in-group or out-group. people who know people with special needs are offended by "tard". and i know many gay people who get riled over "gay" as a putdown. that it doesn't offend you doesn't mean it doesn't offend someone else. nor does it mean it's not hatespeech. when people live with those kinds of insults on a daily basis, they can't and won't speak up about ever usage of it. if they did, they would be doing nothing else. but that doesn't make those terms ok or less hurtful.* * * i actually find it offensive that so many of you are trying to minimized the offense of namecalling of this type. * * * but that brings up the question how does one define offense when it is so subjective? is the one offended the one to judge? but so many people will respond "they're just whining", "they should grow a tough skin" is the one who put forth the words the one to judge? but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. and what about the hurt they caused? note, the guidelines for the resmods don't provide guidance for this. it seems to presume that people just know. but people don't just know. that's why people speak up when people use "tard" or "gay". * * * and there is clearly some inconsistent moderation in this very thread. i see several very direct insults and nothing appears to have been done. * * * as i have said before there is not enough transparency, not enough clarity, and not enough consistency in forum moderation. adding redmods without having addressed these issues compounds the problem. * * * on rewarding the resmods or good behavior. while it's true that positive reinforcement is better than punishment, if the reward isn't psychologically significant enough, then performance will actually degrade. |
|
Cocoanut Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
|
01-31-2006 10:56
From: Dianne Mechanique Well I noted right at the beginning that the difficult point would be exactly how something like this would be configured. Specifically what kind of "reward" for positive behavior could there be? To that end I started a new thread about it, cause this one has devolved slightly (as noted). Please look at it here: /108/e1/85520/1.html#post870300/108/e1/85520/1.html#post870300 Just for the last word on the "Tard" situation... Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a hateful person by any means and I meant no offense using that word which has in fact been used regularly on the forums for a long time by many others. I will try not to use it again, but I can't promise. It is almost the standard forum appellation for an aggressive or stupid poster. My purpose in choosing that word was threefold. First, it is humorous and almost everyone who talked to me about the post mentioned they thought it was funny also. My intent was to paraphrase that famous line about having seen the enemy, and the enemy is ourselves. "I have seen the tard, and the tard is me!" I have found that people are far more receptive to my posts if I use humor in them and that was mostly the point. To talk about negative behavior is a difficult thing, to actually accuse everyone in the forum of doing it is harder still. I thought the humor to be essential in that case otherwise no one would actually read what I said, they would just get horribly mad and it would not end well. Secondly, through the intentional over-repitition of the term, I meant to defuse it and thus render it harmless by pointing out (in perhaps too subtle of a fashion), that it is just a word. This happens all the time with words. A two year old can use the word "jerk" today with impunity, yet in 1920 it was one of the more disgusting things you could call someone. People should just lighten up in general and let the language evolve perhaps. Third, I used it because I don't agree with "second wave" PC language where every word that could possibly be conceived of as hurtful to any living being is eradicated from the language. If a word is culturally or socially biased and has a reasonable alternative, I use that alternative. If the intent is merely to "be PC" (second wave), and the word has no alternative phrase that makes any kind of sense, I don't. "Special Needs" is a classic case of this in that it is IMO a meaningless term that was made up to keep people feeling happy. Note - Historically "Tard" is short for the pejorative term "Retard" which is a shortening of the clinical term "Retarded." There was never anything wrong with the specific clinical term "Retarded" until it started being used in it's shortened, pejorative sense. Since we are now one more level removed from even that, and since the clinical term "retarded" has itself been out of use for more than 20 or 30 years, I suspect that it is sufficiently disconnected from its roots as to not really mean the same thing anymore. I doubt whether most kids today calling each other "tards" even know the origin of the word. Apologies to anyone offended, and I will *try* not to use it anymore. I do totally understand that it is part of this forum's, lexicon intending humor usually. And sometimes intending disgust with the person it is directed at and total disrespect. I have absolutely no doubt that you didn't intend anything hurtful by it at all, Dianne. (In fact, I don't even remember you using the word.) But we just haven't, as a society, yet reached the point where it's okay to toss around. As I've said before, "idiot" and "moron" are also (or were also) official classifications of intelligence, but over time, nobody takes any offense at being called that - aside from any actual offense intended (or humor, depending on the case). Retard or tard hasn't reached that stage yet. (And yes, it has also been historically considered a slur on mentally challenged people to call others retards - it's not just the tard version, which is new.) I hate PC too. Except I don't hate it. Because I'm not the one being offended. When I get called stuff, it's usually about being short, and that doesn't bother me. (Though that song about short people did!) But if these terms have been hurtful to others, then I'm going to go along with PC no matter how silly it seems to me. As an aside (of an aside), "special needs" seems to me a VERY useful term, as it covers an umbrella of things. Special needs children with a variety of different needs can be in one classroom, because they do have special needs, and its easy to refer to a variety of conditions under that umbrella. coco |
|
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
|
01-31-2006 10:57
From: Robyn York Me too. I enjoying bragging about how I scored with Eggy. It's all I have. Uh... Hi. I don't think we've met but... welcome back to SL and stuff. Are you someone's alt or something  |
|
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
|
01-31-2006 11:11
From: Eggy Lippmann Uh... Hi. I don't think we've met but... welcome back to SL and stuff. Are you someone's alt or something Wow, that is cold Eggy! Obviously her time with you in beta was so significant that it is what she clings to, and you don't even remember her. How many other women have you just thrown aside in your conquest of SL?
_____________________
Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.
|
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
01-31-2006 12:18
Ok Lecktor - in order to be more PC we should refer to each other as 'Specs' now  (Personally I don't give a flying f*ck - and will continue to call Leck a tard - so you better get used to it - says a lot for the OP's idea when the best someone can get pissed about is the use of a single word, and not the original idea)
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
|
01-31-2006 12:20
From: Siggy Romulus says a lot for the OP's idea when the best someone can get pissed about is the use of a single word, and not the original idea) Hear, hear!!
_____________________
I have no signature,
|
|
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
|
01-31-2006 12:36
From: Siggy Romulus Ok Lecktor - in order to be more PC we should refer to each other as 'Specs' now (Personally I don't give a flying f*ck - and will continue to call Leck a tard - so you better get used to it - says a lot for the OP's idea when the best someone can get pissed about is the use of a single word, and not the original idea) Well isn't that speshul !! Oh wait ...
_____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
|
|
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
|
01-31-2006 12:38
... ahh here we go !
_____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
|
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
01-31-2006 12:42
Also Leck, from now on you should refer to the 'mail man' as the 'person person'
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
|
01-31-2006 12:52
From: Cocoanut Cookie I do totally understand that it is part of this forum's, lexicon intending humor usually. And sometimes intending disgust with the person it is directed at and total disrespect. I have absolutely no doubt that you didn't intend anything hurtful by it at all, Dianne. (In fact, I don't even remember you using the word.)
coco Just to help with your consistancy, and so your 'hatespeech' label doesn't appear selective to those you don't like... From: someone Ok, this is a little wacky, but I generally like to blurt out everything that crosses my distorted mind anyway, so here goes... I have been noticing that the tone of forum debate improves significantly when there are multiple people posting on a given subject that are: - smart - reasonable - polite, civil, etc. What seems to happen is this "raises the bar" for other posters and IMO a kind of "civilizing effect" occurs wherein posters who would normally be less than civil really try to involve themselves in the debate and prove to others that they to can be a "civil intellectual" of sorts. This effect is really noticeable in group forums but seems to occur even in General. Similarly, the presence of a single angry " tard" (or several) seems to drag everyone down. Otherwise serious, polite and smart people start stooping to the lowest level and take extreme glee in trouncing said " tard," but using the self-same tactics! This effectively multiplies the "tard" population, and sends things spiraling out of control. So my thought is that perhaps it's foolish to try to "punish the tards" in the traditional sense of forum moderation. The "tards" are in fact, sometimes ourselves. Additionally, uneven (or perceived to be uneven), " tard" punishment leads to a further escalation in " tard" behavior from people who would also otherwise be "non- tards." My suggestion then, is that it would be more productive then, to simply encourage the presence and growth of the "non-tard" population rather than try to eliminate the " tard" population, and to bring up the level of debate that way. The controlling mechanisms then would include some kind of positive reward for "non-tard" behavior. People who consistently help others on the forums, or make positive contributions to debates and generally remain civil in the face of great adversity would be rewarded in some way. This would also make the job of "moderation" better in that the moderator would be focussing on the good posts instead of the bad ones and skip lightly through with her magic wand anointing the good behavior of forum posters and ignoring the " tards." You're welcome.
_____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas
|
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
01-31-2006 12:57
The word and all its variations (tard, tardation, tarded, bling-tard, f*cktard) has been in use for sooooooo long and someone NOW decides to get 'offended'? I put it to you that the only reason is as some kind of retort to the idea put forward in the thread for lack of something else to be 'offended' at..
I'll continue to use it, waggle a finger at me? I'll waggle one back - my middle one.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
|
01-31-2006 13:47
From: Siggy Romulus The word and all its variations (tard, tardation, tarded, bling-tard, f*cktard) has been in use for sooooooo long and someone NOW decides to get 'offended'? I put it to you that the only reason is as some kind of retort to the idea put forward in the thread for lack of something else to be 'offended' at..
I'll continue to use it, waggle a finger at me? I'll waggle one back - my middle one. ah yes because length of use makes a word ok... |
|
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
|
01-31-2006 14:09
From: Jonquille Noir Just to help with your consistancy, and so your 'hatespeech' label doesn't appear selective to those you don't like...
You're welcome. Okay, okay, apologised already! I will never use "Special needs" though. It's just a silly term. Even serial killers have "special needs." |
|
Robyn York
Registered User
Join date: 9 May 2003
Posts: 68
|
01-31-2006 14:17
From: Eggy Lippmann Uh... Hi. I don't think we've met but... welcome back to SL and stuff. Are you someone's alt or something |
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
01-31-2006 14:24
From: StoneSelf Karuna ah yes because length of use makes a word ok... If you wanna really nitpick I can say that I'm saying their thoughts are slowed - delayed - they're not catching on, and that I'm using the word correctly.. THe word IS ok.. and I will use it. You can philosophise on that as much as you care to. Heres another word that springs to mind: disingenuous. My thoughts on 3/4 of the P.C. crowd.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
01-31-2006 14:25
From: Dianne Mechanique Okay, okay, apologised already! I will never use "Special needs" though. It's just a silly term. Even serial killers have "special needs." hehe I don't think she was having a go at you - I think she was having a dig at the selective reading of others I find 'physically challenged' funny too.. Funny thing is I've never met a single disabled person who liked that term.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
01-31-2006 14:26
From: Siggy Romulus hehe I don't think she was having a go at you - I think she was having a dig at the selective reading of others That was my read, too.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.
|
