What would *you* like to see in an Infohub?

I would like to see less clutter. Have you been to the Miramare Infohub? Once you land you have to fly out because there is not much walking room. There is the infonet, the lindex, the chairs and tables, the land use info, the valentines booth, the build a hub info, resident advertising, and a hippo.

I asked a very new person what he thought of the infohub and he said it was information overload. Also that it was overwhelming.

WOWZA what a collection of killa ideas. From the level longterm to more crazy, wacked-out trips!!!

Something brought up to me by several peeps is the possible past trauma of going to an Infohub, and expecting to be bound in chains to a zombie Telehub there. No, that won't happen, but I understand making use of the space and transforming it into something better. And as ideas, these may as well be cast out like rays of light in every direction--finetuning can come later.

Also, with many Infohubs, we've got a lot of choices. A lot of this sounds like it'll require development help from the community.

My embryonic comments since the last time I replied:


+ An official Linden Lottery as Sinatra suggests... I like how this is gridwide... and the stations can be included in addition to other content. We may want Resident assistance for this... who currently runs lotteries? James Miller still has Miller's Millions... more suggestions please?

+ Hehe watermelon schtuff is gratuitous fun, it's safe to say you'll see it pop up sporadically.

+ Damian, that sort of has a timetraveller feel... I like that, someone's come to an Infohub and finds themselves in a rustic French village. I think that could be a compelling theme to put some anachronous content. (I'd like to see HTML inworld on a loom, LOLEX.) Altho I think it may be best if a Resident wants to contribute this--I've seen some great historical towns out there!

+ Yes, yes... a lot of this comes down to taking the spaces and fulfilling needs, so people would want to come down there. I think myself, of what I'd do to visit such a place. But then again, I visit so many places--so what could make an Infohub special?

+ Toy, I like nature too... I set up an experimental park at the Montara Infohub, nothing too much (although it could certainly use more waterfalls), and this is easy and actionable to do. It prolly connects to some other ideas too... just something calm and tranquil to get away from all the craziness sometimes. (What if we had "no IM" zones where IMs couldn't get through, like lack of cellphone coverage?)

+ Gabe, not daft at all. That's a very important thing to ask. One easy reason is because Lindens want to communicate better, and more with the community. The SL Forums have been a heartland for me, but there's a lot of Resis who don't come here, or who'd prefer to keep things inworld. On top of that, in the present, I'd hate to see that space go to waste. That'd be crap. There's no intention of competition--but certainly complementing. For example, the recent bids for Infohubs asked for Resident contributions coming up with designs. If you're having a hard time figuring what entails, that may be a significant clue tho for change. If you want a Linden to loiter at Infohubs, I'll do it!

+ Aaron: hmmm... did you make this suggestion before when Telehubs were dying? For some reason, I just had the weirdest feeling of deja-vu. I know how that'd motivate action. Similar to what Argent also suggested... the general counterpoint to that is "it'd be too much like a game, too repetitive" but I'm not here to judge, just here to be receptive and learn from these.

+ Argent, one of my early suggestion for what the current WA is, was to put big screens broadcasting something a la Big Brother, hopefully friendlier. So I'm fond of that; I'm not familiar (yet) with the Gibson "Lucky Dragon" reference tho. Am curious to look that up!

+ P2: L$$$$ for j00! Hehe.

+ Burke, llTeleportAgent came up the other day when I was talking with Jesse about this. A current problem is that the Infohubs aren't as hubbish as they could be because they're not fully networked... just InfoNet. And Burke and Theo, I also believe having a plethora of things to do is the best approach. It's increasingly redundant to be homogenous, especially with how we can TP directly from one place to another--so it doesn't make sense to have two copies of the same place.

+ Art gallery would be easy to do too, which is a plus. And it enhances the culture of SL. I remember seeing Burning Life and all the wikkid things there, and wondered what it'd be like to have a miniature version of that. Random ideas that cross minds here are GOOD, Sarg. Right on.

+ katy, that's a string that really makes sense. A common theme that comes up here is EDUCATION (or lack of it thereof). I wonder tho, we already have Stillman--so would this be like making more places like Stillman (Linden-overseen freebies places), with added help and tutorial resources? This parallels bringing more of the good stuff from Help Island onto the mainland too... once it gets matured--and Help Island has gone over really well!

+ Taco... yes they are. ^_~

+ Eggy, also sounds like extending the benefits of Help Island. By all means, those who want to help with those looking for it--it's fantastique.

+ Siggy, that'd prolly be a core thing. Some of this is so obviously dependent on HTML inworld and mirroring website info because other methods of display are inefficient (copying-and-pasting daily Announcements onto notecards is ludicrous in a mortar-and-pestle way).

+ To Suez, those are clear points about creating attraction. I think that it's an important recurring theme: if you go to a Infohub to interact, it's with other people... and Lindens certainly count as those who could be there. I'll mention something else at the end which ties in.

+ Martin aka Cat, hopefully all that official news will be displayed and made easily accessible!

*comic break*

+ Vivianne... MUHAHAHA... that's sooo out there! OMG. My kinda thing. Hot damn... hey, any more suggestions for how this should be set up exactly, more specifics to gel it past an idea into something doable? I'm gonna need camping chairs. I've sat in many, don't own any of my own. I've already got weapons to shoot on damage-enabled land. Presumably the Weapons Testing Sandbox Infohub would be a great place for this, if a damage-enabled parcel was partioned off. I like how it's just one crazy cluster of THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN SL!


Well, here's what's next... and OF COURSE IF YOU HAVE MORE IDEAS PLEASE SAY 'EM! Judgment can always come later, hehehe, this is for freeflow, no ideas barred because that's how the creative process gets its kicks.

Now, I must say:


+ Are there anyone here who owns land next to an Infohub and is unhappy about the post-Telehub changes (including direct P2P)? And you consciously want LL to commit to helping build more traffic where you're at? You can express yourself here or PM me if you'd like.

+ There are clearly some ideas here which will require a lot more work than others, but it's equally true that there's a bunch of fruit already ripened for experimentation and playing around with. Just casual off-the-cuff, fun things that don't require lots of analysis--just enthusiasm for Second Life. Or as I've heard the expression, "cheap and cheerful". This isn't exclusive either, it's inclusive, and I'm hoping we can do a lot... some just for the heck of it. As a creature of chaos, I know by now that Second Life is a fertile playground for the mind's eye-in-hand.

+ A common thread I've deduced, from inworld and on here, includes Linden presence at Infohubs. Chatting it up, live. Some are familiar with the Linden Village in Ambleside. It's not inhabited a lot, tho. I kinda get the vibe sometimes that *Lindens* have to go where the *Residents* are, instead of the other way around. I love being inworld, and this is something I personally wanna do TONS of--not just Infohubs, but showing up all over the gridverse. Infact, I want to do more of this as Torley Linden than I did as a Resi, because there's no better way to understand about Second Life than living it.


Gracious thanx for all the contris... anymore, keep it going+flowing! I wouldn't be here without you.

AHHH. Yes... yes... and it doesn't work with the surroundings. I've been keyed on your collaborative Nova Albion Infohub, looking forward to more.

I think this is the first time I've seen a Linden address each and every poster in a thread. Torley this is why we love you! Keep up the great work <3

MJ

Awwwz.

Disclaimer: I smiled at what Introvert said because I was thinking of an Infohub having baby Infohubs... so I didn't say anything back explicitly.

As others have said, information.

What really are the definitions of griefing, what's good non-laggy scripting practice, what bugs have been accepted as bugs, even if they aren't going to be fixed immediately. What are long term directions for SL so people have some idea how to plan.

For noobs, how to find help and the wiki's (not all that obvious).

What I propose:
Get rid of all objects... simple green grass a tree or two.
Stop calling it an "infohub"... this (the forum) and "help" button are enough "infohub"
One simple machine that sells Official Linden Lottery tickets
Only sell tickets at these former "telehubs"

Why? because I would like to see consistent traffic come back to these areas.

By the way, letting someone in SL have the Lottery rights is the wrong way to go!

Make it an "OFFICIAL" Linden Lottery, worldwide. People will trust and play it often.

Something that always struck me as weird was a lack of more practical info prepared. I'd like to help do this. When you said "what bugs have been accepted as bugs", I immediately thought of being "Ruthed" after a bad teleport, since that confuses a lot of people the first time it happens, but after it happens several, it comes to be known as an "SLurban legend". Or the "bad texture bake" bug that makes stripes appear on your avatar. (Usually fixed by messing with sliders in Appearance.)

So some very useful, essential, pound-pound-POUND, "that makes sense" advice. Like Heloise's Hints for SL!



That sounds simple and clean! It sounds pretty straightforward after the setup is established.

So ideally, get Lindens good with scripting to set the system up too, right? So Linden-MADE, Linden-RUN? And what about the land around the Infohubs in some particularly large parcels?

And... what's a good recurrence for the lottery? Weekly? Monthly?

(On that note, something that Sinatra mentioned that connects to what Ralph said, F1 for Help in SL is ripe for an overhaul... there are a lot of 2003 references in there. Also notice how it uses hypertext?)

How about a common area set up like an arena at some of the Infohubs (do some of them have the space for this?) that can be loaned out for free for events, on a first-come-first-serve basis? These events could be anything from educational how-to to show-and-tell for people who are content creators to fashion shows to discussion groups. Or just an event "sandbox" area where people could rez their own space to hold events. If residents had to reserve the space maybe we'd get better notice of worthwhile events happening, too, from the Lindens, rather than wading through the *ingo in the Find menu...

I liked the hippos. I actually visited some of them to see what other people had made. I wouldn't mind seeing the art gallery idea at Infohubs.

The lottery is an excellent idea, and if numbers get big enough, why not make it a 50/50 draw where half the money goes to a charity?

Yes Linden-MADE - Official Linden Lottery

If the land is large area put out a few nice sitting benches and tables like a picnic area. The tables could be "info stations" if a person clicked on them.

Would be nice for owners of "telehub" land to be able to have "street signs" or wooden signs" on trees, that point to and say the name of the land owner (or thier shop name).

Each ticket purchased would enter you into two types of lotterys:

One would be a daily lottery, the winner receiving a percentage of that days buy in.

The other, a month long lottery, the winner receiving a percentage of the previous months buy in, minus the daily percentages given out for the daily lottery

The first lotterys may need longer buy periods before pay out. This helps "build" a bigger prize while SL population continues to grow. The larger the population of SL, the shorter the lottery could be.

One more mention:
tickets be sold only at the "infohubs"

A portion of the proceeds from the lottery go to pay for maintenance of the infohub and lottery system, meaning Linden Lab.

People that buy a lottery ticket can, if they choose, text input the name of a charity (RL or SL) that they would like to see another portion (percentage?) of the lottery go to. Whichever charity is the highest ranked, customer requested, at the end of each monthly lottery period will win the donation of a designated percentage.

A Linden-sponsored lottery isn't a half-bad idea, Infohubs aside.

Not to mention, it could be made into a money-sink if the total paid out was less than what was put in.



Personally, what would be ideal to have happen to the Isabel Infohub:

--Something that has the least texture/script footprint as possible
--Something that is *beautiful*
--Something people would enjoy exploring

If I could wave a magic wand, that's what I'd want.

Other functions of the Official Linden Lottery machines, installed only on former "telehub" land:

An interface that allows content creators to "register" one of a kind items and limited editions and be given "certificates of authenticity" by Linden Lab.

These certificates would be similar to SSL security certificates, cataloged and maintained by Linden Lab.

Linden Lab authenticates these items by allowing only so many serial numbered items to exist in world. The original creator can only own or sell the numbered series.

This same terminal that sells lottery tickets and allows creators to register limited edition or one of a kind items with Linden Lab, can also display a catalog of the registered items.

This catalog is searchable (ie; google) clicking on result links take the user to info about that "Linden Lab Registered" item. Info would include how many of each item are still available from the total created. Also, instant purchase of items (shopping cart) can be transacted.

It will be free for content creators to register items with the Linden Lab Registry, however, Linden Lab gets a percentage of each sale, like eBay, and a fee for top placement in the search, like Google.

This gives Linden Lab the ability to pay for the maintenance of the registry... hell, even profit from it

Go ahead and sell Linden dollars from the same machine too since all these services can be paid for with Linden dollars, PayPal, credit card, etc.

By the way, I am not suggesting Linden dollars should only be available to be purchased from these machines...but dang! that would be sweet --- LOL!

Oh! and Linden Lab could, if they choose, hire from within SL community for building, and maintaining the machines... however the script should be written and owned by Linden Lab alone.

I had been meaning to toss this in. "InfoHub" is a coined word and not particularly inviting.

If they are to be town squares or meeting places, a name like "Town Squares" or "Meeting Places" would be better names.

Have new users come in at randomly selected "town squares", [instead of the welcome area] which become their initial home locations, and let everyone be able to chose one of them as their home location. That would get them a bit of traffic.

Unfortunately what motivates me to regularly spend time in a place is LOW LAG. Specifically, low prim and script count. This makes it easier to a) tinker with objects b) interact with other people. That's why I'm usually loitering in sandboxes, if not sightseeing. I'm really not sure what Infohubs could offer. What other 'Info' do I need in SL that I can't get anywhere?

How about a different kind of lottery? What about surrounding or incorporating in a tiny (or normal sized) Luna Oaks Galleria style shopping center that uses a lottery system to keep users rotated. There are always people who love shopping, and the chance that the sellers would do the advertising for the hubs themselves.

Because I'm sure it takes time to set up each Luna Oaks lottery for spaces perhaps it could even be automated? Perhaps it could even be pay-per-whatever (month, week?) at a fair price as a money sink like a lottery for $L would be.

While this would create traffic, the problem here is that this commercial kind of atmosphere is probably not what most people want their Infohubs going towards. It's more likely places like this would cause lag, and not be the peaceful kind of mecca we're aiming for.

I guess what I'm imagining is a Luskwood style attractive mix of nature, shopping, and gathering place.


If nothing else, Player/Linden made games at the hubs would be wonderful. I was walking across the map the other day and invited my mate to come with me to Luna so we could take a Valentine's snapshot. Unfortunately the fact that we both have muzzles resulted in creepy head merging as the animation attempted kissing, but it was a fun walk! Anyway, as we were sitting at the cute little Infohub tables (which we actually floated above ) and I kept thinking how nice it would be to have a chess table, or even a game of hangman to play together.

Note: I really need more sleep. It might be 11am, but drawing fictional Linden Village-y shopping areas is a sign of needing more sleep.

Why not make each Infohub differently? While there should be some things that an AV can find at all infohubs, why should all the infohubs look the same or have exactly the same things? Why not have different themes?

Maybe some of them could be a park with wild life and others could be a more modern airport with jetson like vehicles offering free rides?

All of them could have a kiosk that would tell the AV about things like Cat mentioned, such as:

LL announcements
LL known issues and bugs
Known fixes or work arounds.
Townhall meetings
LL governed meetings, round tables.
Newsletter, developer, etc. Newsletter email.
Mentors
Instructiors
Classes offered in SL
Changes to the TOS or Community Standards

Some of the Infohubs could have a sandbox and others could offer area for instructors and still others could just offer space for standing around and talking, like we used to do at Ahern.

Just a thought.

I suspect the most likely way to bring traffic to these areas would be to sell them.

The private owners could hang out there or use them as business places as they do with any parcel.

Putting it next to a weapons testing sandbox is an awesome idea. I've never sat in a camping chair or owned one but I suspect that there's someone at LL who can make them and endow them with cash. 100L per minute is too much -- someone could get 1000 L for sitting in it for 10 minutes and anyoen could do that. But the amount must be large enough to attract people who know they will be shot at and are willing to take the chance anyway. I would imagine 10-20L per minute would be in the right range. 20L per minute would give a person 1200L if they managed to sit in the chair for a whole hour. I think that would be attractive to people knowing they would be shot at.

The area must be cordoned off with SIGNS THAT CANNOT BE MISSED about exactly what is going on with the chairs. All you need is for some lamer to come along and claim that s/he didn't know they would be shot at and stir up a ruckuss.

This would have to be advertised. You need both shooters and targets for this to work. No shooters and LL would just be giving money away for nothing. No targets and the shooters will get bored and go away. I would probably put other types of targets in the area just to attract shooters -- to make sure they are there when the avie targets show up.

Another idea is see if there's anyone interested in holding weapon-making classes near there on a regular basis.

If you and LL are serious about doing this then I'd be willing to do some of the legwork to get it set up. I think it would be a gas.

Something like that has been bubbling in my head, too. Residents are supposed to be creating content on SL, so let them.

The only thing is that there's parcels right next to all the infohubs that are already owned by residents, and they're not stepping up to the plate in general, are they? What difference does it make whether the infohub land itself is owned by Governor Linden or Random Resident?

Also, I like the idea that the landless can set their homes to any infohub land, instead of havng them all spamming the WA... and you can't do that if they're owned by Random Resident.

And, there's just not that enough land in all the infohubs put together for it to really matter who owns it.

How about NOT letting people keep the WA as their home? Make them pick an infohub the third or fourth time they connect. That way there will be people connecting all the time, AND the WA will quit being such a laggy place... it'll become a *welcome* area for newbies instead of a general town square...

The name sucks, agreed. Call them "village squares", and put the "town square" near the WA or near the "town hall" meeting site.

Set up chat zero repeaters from each infohub to a station near the WA. Maybe make a scale model map of SL in some of the empty land around the WA, with the infohub com stations there, or set them up in a ring just outside the walls of the central area. Click on one to teleport there from the WA, once llTeleportAgent is active... or back again. That way you can talk to people in the WA without lagging it out there, and again there's a reason to hang around after you connect.

Finally, create a Torleymobile, that takes Torley from one random Infohub to another. Let other hangout owners *bid on* visits from the Torleymobile.

I thought the SLottery idea was pretty nifty but the stuffed-shirts over in Legal Affairs put the kibosh on that idea. Apparently, it wouldn't be wise to open ourselves up to that kind of liability.

Lindens dollars have no value, I am sure the stuffed shirts had a part in the wording of the disclaimers to that effect one sees in various documents. If this is true, why would there be a legal problem? Winning Linden dollars isn't winning money, it's like winning Monopoly money, right?

Perhaps the question is not why people should go to the InfoHubs, but can one amuse one's self figuring out how to get people to go there. This is social engineering, who needs a good reason?

I bet you could get a few people to go there if you had catapults or other launching devices that would throw people all the way from one InfoHub to another.

If the launch mechanism mis-calculated a bit and caused the projectile, umm, person to land in the store or club next door, then that would accomplish the real purpose of the InfoHub idea, which is not to dispense information but to divert traffic from places that didn't used to be next to telehubs to places that did used to be next to telehubs.

Another way to get people to go to InfoHubs would be to make a grid-wide network of objects that use llPushObject to make people go to the InfoHubs. This would bring traffic to the areas near them and create a market for devices to counter the effect.

Since it's all digital and, umm, effervescent anyway, one could just do a major rewrite of Second Life's code so as to allow the entire InfoHub parcels to track people and chase them down, and slip themselves under the people's feet.

MONEY BALLS that force people to have MEANINGFUL CONVERSATIONS while looking at ART and WILDLIFE














Some hookers probably wouldn't hurt either.

The half-buried wreckages of burned out telehubs, to be used as shelters and gathering places for cyberpunks everywhere. Perhaps a little bit of an underground base extension, and a dash of protoculture on the side, if you please.

Glad you thought the idea was interesting.

SLottery is the perfect name.

I can see the headlines now:

"State Lottery operators buy Linden Lab!"

"What's next? Lottery in the Metaverse?"

or my favorite:

"Profit affords inquisitive legal"

Have a happy day
Sinatra
LOL