New "Sell Land" Dialog, Same Old Problem

The new "Sell Land" dialog is dissappointing. It is no different than the system it replaced. And already, less than 24 hours after the update, a swooper has snatched land from someone who intended to transfer the land from friend to friend, not friend to swooper.

Nothing has been fixed. I knew this would continue to be a problem. All that has changed is that all the options are together on one dialog screen. The problem is not that people didn't know they could set the land for sale to a specific person...

The problem is that people don't understand how much risk there really is. New residents simply aren't aware that people sit in waiting, second-by-second for someone to set land for sale at L$1. In a new resident's mind, or the mind of someone making this costly mistake for the very first time... they have the option to sell to anybody, with the expectation that their FRIEND will fill that "anybody" role 30 seconds later. Or, they can go through the trouble of entering a specific name.

The inexperienced resident choose the quicker path because they just don't know what can happen! And that's what needs to be fixed. You can't change human nature which leads people down the easier path!

Why is there no "transfer to friend" option for land? Why can't we click a <TRANSFER> button which would allow ownership of the land to be transferred to a certain individual... in addition to the regular <sell> button. The difference would be, <sell> lists the land and it is automatically available to anyone. <Transfer> would be very similar except a "transfer to" name MUST be chosen, and the system doesn't need to list the land on the market. I think that would be a REAL solution to the problem.

Sounds like the real problem is that you can't do someone else's thinking for them.

The real problem is people not paying attention. This did fix the join land issue though.


For your information mr live help..theres ALREADY an option to sell to friend, its called 'set to.' Its been there since I joined.

So yes, the same problem is there. PEOPLE IGNORING WARNINGS AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

The issue comes from where they place the "Cancel" button. Seriously, this is an UI psychology thing that many UI developers still have not got.

THE PROBLEM IS THIS ...people new to SL do not have even the vaguest idea that there are people who CAN steal your land in such a devious way and I am sure even if some of them are themselves devious, they havent actually been in SL long enough to realize such a thing can happen so they are not looking for it to happen...ergo they do not realize they must take precautions to prevent such a theft. Also THE OPTION OF SET-TO.. is not exactly clear as to what it really means...I was not "new" to sl when I made the mistake of trying to exchange land with a friend...and with in a nano second...poof it was gone. I had no idea what the "set to" was for...nor could I find any information on it at the time. OF course I now know and though I lost little...it was the fact that such a thing happened that made me try to figure out what to do to prevent it again...hell of a way to learn BUT I do agree that little has changed to prevent it from happening again...ONLY WAY TO PREVENT IT IS TO GIVE INFORMATION TO ANYONE BUYING FIRST LAND, a list of things they need to do before even thinking of selling it. Just like a note card that should pop up with a list of do's and dont's...at least the they would have a fighting chance IMHO.

Q: Anyone with 640x480 resolution, full screen, tried to sell land? Want to know your experience as I can't go down to this resolution. Also check other UI elements (apperance and so on).

As a few newbies are still using this res.

F1Help is every residents friend... in it explains how to set land on sale, and how to sell land to your friends.

I understand the problem with residents not reading, not paying attention, not knowing what they're doing when selling land, despite Code Red, level 3 warnings.

However, it's been proven over time that most people aren't going to learn before making a mistake. People aren't going to magically understand that a stove is HOT without touching it and being burned first. Telling your kid, "I told you so!" after they burn their fingers on a hot stove... doesn't stop the kid from screaming and yelling at the pain. In that scanario, stove designers created a cold-touch stove that doesn't burn the fingers of children. And finally, LL has acknowledged that it's really a problem, because they've attempted to correct it.

My dissappointment is that LL announces that they've solved a problem, saved the world from swoopers, when in fact, LL has changed nothing. They have NOT solved the problem at all. This new feature is merely a different arrangement of the old feature. It's like... if the sign-up page didn't have an input box for date of birth.... and everyone gripes about it. So, LL adds a date of birth input box on the sign-up page and announces they've solved the problem.... but in fact, LL has failed to solve a problem which they set out to solve.

Quite correct,

IMHO the whole thing should be made totally newbie proof and default to wizard based selling (with tons of big typed text explaining what is going on).

Advanced users should be able to get this UI through preference.

I don't know, I thought 'you have set the land to sell for XXXX linden dollars. Anyone may purchase this land.' was PRETTY DAMN CLEAR. Especially as it let you cancel..

Sorry but at the time I also did not know about the famous F1 Help (yeah right...there is so little info in there I could fit it onto the point of a needle) and so I of course did not use it, however since the time that I lost my land, you can be sure I will forever take the offensive and check..recheck before I make any moves of any kind. I feel seriuosly that this SL world is just a bit worse then RL with the criminal mind out of control, therefore I will assume that everyone is suspect when it comes to dealing with assets. IMHO!

Hmmm.. Wonder who stole your land..

A wikkia sorta thing the Lindens are so proud of, cant pop up and ask, "Is this the first time youve ever sold land, and do you know what your doing, if not READ this"

Yea, it's called F1Help... or you can use the support link on the website.

When you get to the end of the sell land process it states "All Land Sales are Final"... wouldn't you at this point review all the details just to make sure it was right? I do, and I fail to understand why others don't use the same common sense. Most do. Those who don't come to the forums and whine complain bitch and moan about their land being "stolen.".... I never hear someone who takes the time to set the land as they intended on these forums.

LOL yea this would work XD

This is a re-post from aother thread where I laid out a possible version of sell land. It needs a few tweaks but I re-paste it here to show how modern UI convertions could be used ti better trap land selling mistakes:

/108/3e/114732/1.html

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Just as there are Basic and Advanced LindeX setting, Parcel Management and Estate Management should have the same modes. What we get in the dialogs now would be "Advanced". "Basic" would convert all dialogs into multi-step "Wizards" that guide the user through the options. Even something as seemingly simple as "Publish in FIND PLACES" could use a quick tutorial. For selling Land the Wizard would have the following pages (thouugh I will actually be combining most of the General Tab options into on wizard that wouldn't be appropriatehere):

Page 1: Welcome to the "Sell Land" Wizard, "You are about to go through the steps to place this parcel up for sale. Follow the steps of this wizard to ensure the sale is made as you intended and read the summary before you click Finish on the final page." "Don't Display this in the Future" checkbox and Next

Page 2: "When selling land you can either makde it avaiilable to anyone (a General Sale) or a specific person (as when you want to sell to a friend, a member of a group to add it to the Group's land holdings, or you have pre-negotiated the sales terms wth someone." Radio choices for "I want to Sell the Land to Anyone" and "I want to Sell the Land to a Specific Person" "Next" and "Back" buttons.

Page 3 (Anyone Version): "You are planning to make this parcel available for sale to anyone. After finishing this Wizard your parcel will appear immediately in the FIND Land Sales tab. Enter the amount of L$ you wish to sell the land for." Text box for L$ entry, "Next" and "Back" Next skips to Page 6.

Page 3 (Specific Version) "You only want to allow a particular person to be able to buy this land. How would you like to decide who this is?" Radio choices for "Search for the person by Name" or "Select them from the membership list of one of my Groups" with an associated combo for their groups. This would be ghosted if they didn't belong to any groups. "Next" and "Back" buttons.

Page 4 (Search for Person): "Please find the person you wish to sell the land to. By setting this option only this person will be able to buy the land and it will not appear in the FIND Land Sales tab.", include the usual search for avatar dialog but imbedded on the wizard page rather than as the sidebar dialog. "Next" and "Back" buttons.

Page 4 (Person from Group): "Select a member from the group to buy the land.By setting this option only this person will be able to buy the land and it will not appear in the FIND Land Sales tab.", list bo of Avatar Names from the group selected on Page 3. "Next" and "Back" buttons.

Page 5 (Specific Version): "You are planning on making this land for sale to only person xxx. Please enter the amount they will need to pay", L$ box, "Next" and "Back" buttons.

Page 6: Summary of settings chosen so far spelling out exactly the transaction about to happen for example: "You are about to make this land available to anyone to buy for L$1000. After clicking finish your parcel will be listed in FIND Land Sales. Make sure both the price and the fact that anyone can buy the land is what you wanted then click Finish", or "You are about to place this land for sale to xxx for L$yyy. It will remain for sale until you either change the settings or the person buys the land. It will not appear in FIND Land Sales. If this is what you want click Finish to place this land for sale." "Back" and "Finish" buttons

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There are a few edits I need to make and I will do the mock-ups I intended earlier. I hoped that this "Wizard" mode with its final summary page would serve a better warning to mistakes than the confirmation dialog.

I think the new sale dialog is about as good as you can do. You can't save people from making silly mistakes, as they will blindly click through whatever "safety net" put under them. If you are still "accidentally" selling land for L$0, it's amazing that you are able to figure out how to play SL in the first place. Sounds harsh, I know, but at some point you just have to accept the fact that some people are stupid and sometimes smart people make mistakes.

cant you sell land to a specific person?

Is that part very complex?

Of course there also the very simple - hand money to the person your selling the land for and sell it at market price to them and get your money back.


If there was a 20 min delay in any land being set for sale showing up on the search would that help this "swooping" problem?

If you make something idiotproof the world just creates a better idiot.

LOL.

I was just looking at the "Sell Land" on my little parcel. Seems rather straight forward and protected to me. Whereas previously I could have possibly clicked the check box before setting price, it seems more protected against newbie accidents now.

In the previous set-up, I set my price to 10,000 for m 512M, figuring that in case of accidental box checking, the price was way more than worth, and if somebody actually bought it, good for me. In the new system, it seems clear to go through the steps as outlined.

It really behooves the resident to learn about features before clicking blindly.

If and when I really am ready to sell, I have a fair amount of confidence in being able to properly use the interface.

Torn.

One hand I agree, people will always make mistakes.

On the other, Why can't LL just put in a comfirmation of sale popup?

Example: Person A puts thier land up for sale with the purpose of selling to Person B (a friend). Land goes up for sale. Before Person B can buy the land, Person C comes in and attempts to buy land. Person A gets a popup reading "Person C has offered you x L$ for parcle at xxx location consisting of xxx sq m. Do you wish to sell to Person C? YES NO"

This would give a person the right to deny sale to Person C. Or D, or E or anyone other than Person B. There would also need to be the restiction of only one pending sale allowed at any given time to prevent multiple popups from occuring and having Person A click the wrong popup my mistake.

Again, not idiotproof, but offers more protect with the ability to deny a sale. Might get rid of landswooping all together since some will prolly set thier land to 1L$ and deny everyone in order to confuse swoopers and bots that do the swooping.

~Jessy

That is funny, Lost!

The thing is, if a thing is confusing to people, a thing is confusing to people. Doesn't matter how much you think people must be stupid. Doesn't matter how much you think your dialogue shouldn't be confusing.

If a thing is confusing a significant number of people, and it's causing them considerable loss and agony, then . . . you just have to keep trying till you come up with something that confuses far fewer.

Lost's thing is actually a pretty good example.

Part of the problem is the ENTIRE land situation is confusing. (More confusing than anything I've ever run across before.) It is totally not intuitive. By the time the person even gets to the point of setting sale to user, or whatever, they are lucky to have figured out 16 things prior. That contributes to the mistakes made at the end there.

From what is said here, looks like they need to continue to work on it.

coco

this isnt a bad idea and could be the defualt setting - It should be possible to turn it off so that you can sell while your offline -

Or for the land barons so they can sell without approval.

Yup, was my thinking as well.

I'd make a Feature Proposal on it, but I'm waiting on Linden Comment on my current Prop which just hit 500 votes ^.^

If I can get acknowledgement soon, I'll write this up for discussion and voting.

One step at a time.

~Jessy