New "Sell Land" Dialog, Same Old Problem

People don't read pop ups.

Something like a list that records attempts to buy the land, so then the owner when they log in can review it to decide themselves who they want to sell it to (click on the name on the list to highlight them, click the "sell to this person" button) ... might work, but then again it might not.

I'm in the camp that believes anyone who screws up a land sale using the new interface shouldn't own land, but instead, go back to school and get their diploma.

Point I had is they can't sell if they don't click YES off the popup. When they see the buyers name (perhaps in bold red letters) it might make them go "Hey!! That's not my friend I was selling to!!"

I'm suggesting a popup the have to read and acknowledge to sell thier land. Obviously Landbarons would need the option to turn this off.

~Jessy

The only reason we have land swooping is because the listing of land for sale is instantaneous!

If LL implemented a 10-15 minute delay between ticking the for sale box and listing the land in Search it would allow land owners to transfer land without the land swoopers even knowing it was set for sale!

Sun.

Yeah. It's a real bitch on my 8513/A, but that's all my S3 ViRGE can handle.

And am replying to this suggestion that on the very first day it's introduced, you're likely to still get people who didn't read it, and just hit "OK" to make it go away, thus selling their land to the swooper. Red and bold letters nonwithstanding. (because hitting Cancel like you say, would not have desired effect. What is stopping the swooper from clicking buy again and again, thus making the pop up show on your screen over and over?)

^^;;

Gueez People Dont Know How To Read? Im Tired Of The Land Swooping Drama
maybe create a "LAND SALES FOR DUMMIES" wizard,wich asks in HUGE RED TEXT "YOU WANT TO SELL THIS TO A FRIEND?FRIEND NAME IF NOT,TICK LAND BARON

After reading all the threads on the subject i think this is probably the best idea of the bunch imho A delay before listing it in the for sale section will probably be the easiest way to go for LLs Devs also Im sure even with the new interface someone will mess it up but at least a delay gives everyone the chance to correct their mistakes and hopefully cut down the Land swoopers ability to pick up cheap land from those that have made that mistake

Peace

I was hoping a revised interface would help. For all we know, it may help, in that we may have fewer people having this problem.

A number of people are assuming that the sellers don't understand that "sell to anybody" means literally that. Given the new dialog, I no longer think that is the case. The question to ask is "Why do people continue to make this mistake?", not "Why are people so stupid?"

Here's my hypothesis: When the seller and their friend are the only two people in the nine local sims (local and eight surrounding), the assumption is that the seller can just set it to buy without anymore details because their friend is right there to purchase it. They do not realize that someone can just swoop in, in the blink of an eye, and steal the land from under them. Of course, once it happens to you, you know better, but the damage has already been done.

So, any further approaches to the solution should address this issue specifically. I think a short delay in listing the land, as others have suggested, could help address the issue.

New, from SL films: Gone In Six Seconds

"Trying to save someone from their own stupidity is liek trying to teach a pig how to dance: it wastes your time and annoys the pig." -Robert Heinlein

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

Robert A. Heinlein.

The only reason we have land swooping is people don't pay attention and don't read.

If People would just pay a little attention and not randomly click through without reading then they wouldn't be taken by anyone buying land they legitly set for sale to anyone.

What is stopping that is my suggestion (see above) that only ONE (big bold letters for you) pending sale at a time can go through the system. The seller would have to cancle that one and then another potential buyer can try. And yes, a landswooper can sit and click over and over, and can also be Ejected/TP-Home by the seller.

The only (bold red lettering for you again) reason we have landswooping is that no one wants to slam these slimeballs. The jerks ripping off newbies and people who make mistakes (and unless you're perfect, you make them too) need to be stepped on. I highly agree with the 'blacklists' going around. Lots of them list landswoopers, and those dregs are slowly being banned bit by bit from SL.

Landswooping is theft. It needs treated like such.

Blaming a first time seller for not knowing everything is rediculous. LL has no instructions on such in the Welcome Areas they start in, nor even links to the Wiki or even MENTIONING the F1 help. If new Residents even KNEW where to look, it would help, but LL hasn't even done that.

Hell, I've been around for almost a year, and there are things I have no clue how to do. I look into it now, but after that year, I've learned that, like real life, Second Life has it's fair share of dirtbags and thieves.

[sarcasm]
"Welcome to Second Life. Come in. Spend money. Get ripped off because everyone thinks you should know the interface intuitively."
[/sarcasm]

~Jessy

Agreed. If the land and funds involved are so unimportant to you that you don't read the dialog box, much less ask people questions or look on the forums so that you actually know what you're doing, then why shout so loudly when you drop your ice cream?

That said, the suggestion of a "Transfer Land" button along with "Sell Land" might streamline these prearranged sales as well as avoid error through inattention. Personally, tho, I've only made a half-dozen land transactions, including a recent three-party land-swap with objects included, and I saw no pitfalls along the way.

Sounds to me like what we have here is a classic PEBKAC problem.

Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

Now everyone repeat after me...

I promise to read the clearly printed instructions, I promise to read the clearly printed instructions, I promise...

F1 has been the industry standard way to get into the Help system of software for, hmm.... well, I recall using it in Windows 3.1, so roughly 20 years now. And I agree with many of the other posters: If someone doesn't take the time and effort to learn everything about something they're doing before they do it, there's no sense crying about it after they screw it up. If I don't bother to read the docs on something, and I mess it up, it's my own fault, not the fault of the people who made the software and/or wrote the documentation. The WHOLE issue here is one of not taking personal responsibility for your actions. It's not the land swooper's fault that you sold your land in a way that let them swoop you. It's yours. Is land swooping reprehensible? Hell yes. But that doesn't change whose fault it is at base.

"The problem with making something foolproof is that fools are so damned ingenious." -- Mark Twain.

I don't blame a first time land seller for not knowing everything.

I blame every land seller who doesn't pay attention or read.

OMG I cannot even believe this guy had the nerve to post on this site, this is the Swooper that Swooped me!

Not only that, the a-hole made a thread mocking you as well.

One problem iwth a confirmation popup is that the seller would have to be in-world in order for you to be able to buy land.

The restriction to only one pending sale would obviously be impossible for professional land dealers.

I suppose you could make the confirmation popup optional; that would eliminate my second objection, and at least lessen the impact of the first one, since you could opt out.

I had not realized that they were promoting this as the ultimate solution. Strangely, I had understood these changes to be more along the lines of reducing the frequency of mistakes and "Hey, guys! Look, we aren't completely ignoring you" sort of thing.

It is simply not feasible for LL to come up with and implement a "once and for all and for all conceivable situations" solution.

There is one, very basic, rule with UI design: if the user doesn't understand it, you have failed.

Saying "oh well the user is just stupid" doesn't cut it - as a programmer you can curse the damn idiot users all you like, but you still have to find a way to make it easier for them. If even one user doesn't understand how to do something, you've failed. Now, you can cut your losses and say "okay, a 1% user fail rate is acceptable compared to the time it will take me to fix it" but given the consequences of letting your land be swooped and the fact that it could easily put a new user off altogether, and the generally confusing nature of SL's UI (as even Philip has said) that's not acceptable here.

I don't want to have a go at LL here, UI design is not easy at all, but if people are still being swooped then something still needs to be done, that's all there is to it. At least they've acknowledged the problem which means, presumably, that if the problem still exists they'll try to do something more in the next update.

My grandmother still has troubles with using america online and that place can't get anymore idiot proof than it already is. Linden provides tutorials for users and you kind of need to hope that the users have the ability to read.

And if they don't, or they misunderstand something, then you'll be right there ready to take adavantage.

Have you declared your interest in this topic yet?