I was a "trojan teen" (Rant)

Warning: Rant. Possible tl;dr.
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Initializing rant engine v0.982
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I'm not terribly sure if I should even post this, for fear of getting my account nuked. But, some of the things I saw recently bothered me, and I needed to say something.

Namely, i'm talking about the great deal of hate for the teen SL project.

I joined SL back in 2004, 2 years under the age limit. I used a check card linked to my bank account. (As far as the internet is concerned, it is a standard visa credit card.) I pretty much quit playing all of my other MMORPG's and stuck with it. What can I say? It was addictive being able to create anything you can imagine.

Then, a few months back, i see posts like:

http://solitaire2.bravehost.com/sl-site/articles/editorial_trojan-teens.html
/120/41/40559/1.html
/120/2f/23935/1.html

There are more, but these are just a few examples.
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I was hurt. These people are talking about me! And for what, because of my age? Because some people are different than others? There seems to be an extremely negative stereotype that if you are a teenager, then you are unstable, have emotional problems, hell you might as well be locked away in a separate area!

Hey, thats a good idea! We'll make a secondary grid, with their own forums. The current residents sure as hell don't want them there. And just to keep everything "safe", we'll weld their underwear on. I can only imagine some of the conversations that went on while this idea was being thrown around at LL HQ. I also remember the "amnesty for the underaged" week that was announced when the teen grid first came online. Hmm, lemme think about this, I get to move to a more or less blank world, with less freedom, and none of my friends? I. THINK. NOT. I've done nothing wrong, I think i'll stay here, k thanks.

I'll admit, some are more mature than others. Some like to grief and cause problems. Ever been to There? They have their share of idiotic "kids". They also have their fair share of idiotic adults. And, ironically, so does Second Life.

I bought L$ on GOM when it was around. I thought "This is cool! I can can actually make money doing this!" I owned land. I've played my fair share of tringo. Heck, I've played MORE than my fair share of casino games.
Gambling! Under the age of 18! Heaven forbid!
And, yes, I will admit it, I've had "sex" with certain special people.
Oh my god! This person is out of control!

I've never griefed anyone. I never got a single negative rating (while they existed). I've never been abuse reported. Not once. I'll also admit that I helped a few friends of mine get accounts. We were all around 15-16 at the time. They have also been model citizens. They also have recently cleared the age barrier.

What about now? Well, I own a nice plot of land with beachfront view, a decent amount of L$ in my pocket, around 4-5000 items in my inventory, and most importantly, many new friends, that I would not have had the chance to meet had I been segregated.

The teen grid somehow hasn't fallen in on itself, unlike what 90% of residents predicted. I understand that the policies are there to cover LL's ass, and makes good business sense. Who wants LL shut down because an irate parent decides to sue because of what their child sees online? It's been done before.

What does not make sense is all the hate shown by the residents of SL. I ask you, please put away your stereotypes. Age is not always a definition of maturity. People deserve the same amount of respect, and by extension, the same chance to enjoy their second life, regardless if they are 15 or 25. If they do it right, you'll never know your talking to someone who's underage. And that's the whole idea.


My name is Tsukasa Karuna, and I was a trojan teen.


P.S.
If there are any questions about my true age at this point, I would gladly fax you a copy of my drivers license.

As the proud mother of 2 teenagers, yes to all of the above. Teenagers are feral animals with pointy teeth. Mine will not be allowed out of the crawl space for <checks calendar> another 1-3 years.

I keed. Sorta.

What you're talking about is the fact that general rules do not work perfectly for every individual. Nor should they be expected to. Furthermore, having been exposed to and participated in some of the goings-on in the Adult grid I can assure you that I do not want my own teenagers exposed to some of that until they're in their 30s. And even then only on a need-to-know basis.

It's also a legal protection for LL. I'm sure you've heard the term "cya". Given the moral climate in the U.S. right now, the last thing the Lindens want is a major scandal involving 14-year old kids having av sex with grownups.

Over 18 = considered 'adult'.
Under 18 = considered 'child'.

It's the law, there's nothing that can change that fact.

There are many ways that 'adult' can inappropriately interact with 'child' - from both sides.

The separation is there for the protection of both sides.

Lewis

I agree entirely with the policy.



The point i'm trying to make is, there probably ARE underaged people in the adult grid, there ARE backdoors, and the world isn't coming to an end because of it.

The hate is unnecessary.

The problem with "teenagers" on the grid has little to do with the discussions on these forums. While they might give a bad impression, that's par for the course with discussion this week.


Actually, as Lewis put it, it's the law. What Linden Lab wishes to avoid, quite simply, is the same thing MySpace is faced with right now -- real teenagers being "hurt" by cases of predatory actions. Not because they care, either. Because they don't want to get sued.

And while the maturity argument does hold water, I'm afraid that's not going to change. In fact, it might get worse with the whole Puritanical climate in Congess.


Sorry.

PS. Yes, the grid still has many active teenagers, given how these things work. I would be someone to argue for their right to be here in general; however, as a political stance, it's very unsafe grounds.

Thats the nice thing about the adult grid. You can automatically assume with about a 98% proability that the person you are talking to is 18 and over. This cuts down on predators. Who's going to try to hunt for kids in an area where there (supposedly) are none? As long as you don't go flapping your gums that your under the limit (Bad idea anyways, at least you'll get shunted to TSL sans items and L$, at worst, banhammered) you would be pretty safe from RL threats, imho.

The teen grid was not made to segregate teens because they are thought to be a bother or 'hated'. That has NOTHING to do with it. It has to do with COPPA laws and liability. PERIOD.

Any other 'ripple effects' or social attitudes towards teens are circumstantial. "Feelings" and "hate" have NOTHING to do, even remotely, with why the two grids are separate.

If Linden Lab gave a damn about fostering social divisiveness to keep inter-group infighting at bay, I'd be on the "furry grid"* by now.




*Yes, it's been tried, by the way.

<Insert Age Play Grid Joke Here>

OK but...
In the UK, age of consent 16...can do in RL but not allowed to do with avatars?
In many places, age of driving 17...can kill people with hunk of metal in RL, but not in SL?
In many places, can join army at 16 and kill people in RL but not in SL.

Sorry I think this is nuts.
Cali

I must've made my point unclearly. Go read those forum posts, then come back.

My point is not to attack the policy, which in of itself is a Good Idea©

My point is to attack the (seeming) general hatred of teens by those on the adult grid.

With all due respect, these are the Second Life forums you're talking about. Flames against any given issue are par for the course here, by the most vocal people you've never met.

The only way to survive here is to stop caring what other people think about the issue and go about your life.


That, or resort to trolling.

I guess its based on US laws, and theres no room for international variances.

I've played TSO with people from 13 upwards (its the nature of the game) and have had no problems, but then again I don't partake in cyber and there's no opportunity in TSO to make sex poseballs or go naked.

I would guess its more down to the nature of SL and what people tend to do with it thats the issue behind it.

Lewis

Meh, it was one of those things that was ticking me off and I had to get it off my chest.

Trolling.. hmmm.... have to think about that one

Yes Lewis, but a 16-17 year old based in the UK and playing on the teen grid could be accused of and prosecuted for exactly the sort of things that LL are trying to avoid. In theory at least.

Is TSO not in the Us then?

I had understood that there were some pretty X-rated activities in TSO even if you can't make poseballs. To be honest if you were to compare sex in SL using poseballs, and cybering text, I would say the latter is likely to be more shocking, if you're going to be shocked by stuff.
Cali

I dont think it was the "mature" teens people would rant about. Or maybe us old folks were just worried some 1337 scripter/builder/texture artist would beat us at the game?
Plus the whole Age of Consent laws in the USA.

There's an old saying "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." I think that applies.

You're right about that. Adults have done that to teenagers in every generation and it is a shame and it is hurtful. The fact is I've known lots of responsible intelligent articulate teenagers and plenty of immature idiotic adults. Frankly in SL just as in RL any problems I've had, have come more often from adults than from adolescents.

That said, there are perfectly legitamite legal issues for keeping people under the age of 18 out of the adult grid, the age of 18 being the age of consent in the area LL has it's offices based.

There are also legitamite reasons from a parents perspective to keep teenagers out. My daughter is 14 and is not allowed to play SL in EITHER grid. Being in any online environment can be extremely unsafe for someone who hasn't yet developed the necessary life experience to protect themselves. At 14, as intelligent and enlightened as my daughter is, she is also naive to the evils that some people can stoop to. She would be easy prey for someone who knew how to tell her the things a young girl wants to hear. At 16 she may be a bit less naive and I may decide she's ready for the teen grid if she's interested. At 18 legally she can do what she wants but I will still be watching when I can and worrying.

Not all adults here fear and loathe teenagers. Some of us just want to be sure we're living up to our responsibility to protect them from other adults.

To clarify, you can't "make your own content", so you have to be imaginative with text - which you could do in Yahoo Messenger anyway - and the nearest you got to anything that looked vaguely like sex was by positioning of certain items and joining animations together in a way that weren't intended but coincidentally looked possible.

TSO is a teen rated game (13+). It has no 'X rated activities'. Even two players together in the 'love bed' are blurred out. Two people lying in a regular bed together don't even cuddle, they lie there like corpses.

You can get a 14 day free trial if you like - http://sims.stratics.com for the official forums.

Lewis

The thing is, the servers reside on US soil, the Management is in the US, and all thie taxes/paperwork is filed in the US. So they have to abide by US law. If that 16 year old from the UK comes to the US, he/she will have to abide by US laws regardless of how they are regarded under UK law.

It's a difficult grey area that every lawmaker is struggling with. So LL is playign it safe, which is really, the best way to go under the circumstances.

You sound reasonably well put-together for an 18-year-old. I'll grant you that. (But then, to be honest, all I have to go on is one forum post.)

But I promise you this: Print out a copy of your post and stash it away for 16 years. Pull it out again when you're 34. You won't believe what a yutz you used to be.

And when you're that age, you probably won't be too excited about hanging out with 16-year-olds, either.

Well, let's be honest here. No, you didn't. You flagrantly disregarded it.

A teenager who cas pass as an adult in SL might as well be an adult, at least as far as other players are concerned. Most can't... but then, I'm of the opinion many adults can't pass as adults.



Agreed. There are plenty of reason to hate people, no need to add general hate based on age. We should hate immature people though, no matter how old they are in RL.

There must be a division between youngsters and adults, It´s not only the law, but is know that people get different after a certain age of life, people grow up, see life in a different angle.

There´s no way to study every person and see if one fits adulthood or childhood, so they fixed an age, there might be people that are child after 18 and people that are adult before 18, but as general rule the is the limit.

If you think there is adults that hate teens and want to keep them away, you can be sure as well that there´s teen that hate adults as well. But it is surely not the case for LL, theres´s laws and if they dont follow it they might have to close its doors and drop the project.

Touche. But that was then.

I don't mind teens on the main grid. If there's something here that they diddn't atleast have an idea of before, they're probably mormon;p

You could probably see all the "bad" of SL in a few episodes of Law And Order anyway. Maybe even animal sex.

Some parents of course would have problems letting their little kids on the main grid. That's something that I could argue forever, but it's not my business.