Why the "camping"?

Where does the money come from when one "camps"?
Is it an advertising thing. Does the person who pay other to camp make a profit?

Just wondering. I hope to have a "camping" station.

If it encourages many to log in, doesn't it slow down SecondLife?

Dao Tiger

Camping chairs were invented to make people's shops look more popular thus putting them higher on the listings thus bringing in more customers (who don't camp).

The money to pay the zombies comes from the store sales and is typically dirt cheap compared to the increase in sales.

Yes, having zombies logged in does make SL slower for everyone. Linden Lab is in the process of removing the benefit of camping chairs to merchants, so if you aspire to own camping chairs, you will be very disappointed.

Hi Dao. "Camping chairs" and their ilk are a gimmick a number of land owners have been using to get folks to stay at their locations for long periods of time. The chairs automatically deduct money from the land owner's account and give it to the folks sitting in them; the longer people sit in the chairs, the more money they get. The idea is to increase the land owner's traffic so that he/she will receive a sizeable payout from Linden Lab through the Developer Incentives program.

The Developer Incentives program, however, was intended to reward those who provide unique and original content and services that enrich the Second Life community. By contrast, the camping chairs have mainly resulted in the proliferation of unattended "zombie avs" that users place in the chairs to collect free money. Many folks (including LL themselves) consider this to be a blatant abuse of the system, arguing that not only is it a waste of server resources (large numbers of avatars do bog down the system, to answer your question), but it essentialy robs LL of significant sums of money allocated for the purpose of rewarding creativity. As a result of this and similar practices, LL is phasing out the Developer Incentives program.

Too bad, but I understand. However, they should change it instead, not remove it completely.

/Alex

Personaly when I used to go shopping or site seeing I looked at the highest traffic areas because 9 out of 10 times those areas had something worth while going too, since the introduction of camping chairs I have found myslef looking at the lower traffic areas simply due to the fact that most (not all) of the higher traffic areas are zombie filled zones seeking to extort valuble traffic from areas that actually deserve it.
These are places that actually took the time and spent the money to create something that others would like to see or buy, instead of paying out a few L$ to have some one come sit in a chair but in the end it comes down to "to each their own".

They will be removing the traffic slowly from what I've read.
Which will be good because something else can be used in it's place.
And there is the idea of implementing a sales score I believe.
This will be "abused" also.
The traffic and camping turned the find button into a search engine like google. Where a company or store pays to have their listing come up first. Only in this case WE get the money and not LL.

As for the sales score idea. The fact that they could pay anyone to buy their products will destroy the sales score option so I doubt that will come about.
Have an alt buy their own products. Etc.

Anything can be "gamed."
Even the post score in this forum can be.

Most who work online know this and deal with it as an evolutionary step.
If people want to use a tool or option as something else. They will do it.
Some people just don't like it. And are not used to it.
I've had to change things in a real life business because of similar things. I didn't create the "abuse" but someone did. I don't see them as problems. I see a virus as a problem.
But if someone wants to game a system I see it as though they are saying we want something else. And so accepting it is part of the solution. And using it to your advantage.

People do like to sit in camping chairs. That's why they do it.

I have never understood this argument that "there's places that give people what they genuinely want, and others that cheat by having camping chairs". Free money is, surprisingly enough, something that people genuinely want. If you're upset that people want free money more than they want to look at the latest thing you made then, well, that's a societal issue and needs to be tackled that way. If you're upset that people want to make free money instead of going shopping or paying to attend areas then you're really missing the point, because if they can get free money, they'll be much more likely to use it to buy stuff or attend areas. I remember my newbie days and you have to be verrry picky about what you spend that L$50 on; and if you buy L$, then naturally you're even more picky about that because, hey, if you're going to spend real money on virtual goods they had better be really, really good virtual goods.

Removing dwell and DI might reduce the camping chair issue. But there's probably some places that are making sufficient profit that they could run camping chairs and still make a profit - it'd probably be cheaper than a couple of thousand every week for a high-spot classified, especially since if they're a popular store there's a good chance they'll get the money back.

I'm kinda new here logging on for the first time at christmas.

I just dont understand the campin chairs.

for the amount of time your sat in a chair to earn Linden your actually using more "real" money in keeping your PC turned on.

I just dont understand it.

I'm gald these are being phased out but its a shame for the people who have created cool places losing out on this potential reward money from lindens?

I assume this is the Dwell funds ?

Its a shame as I had my first event 18 people and although i only got 17 dwell it was great to have that token recognition.

Actually energy is less a problem than you might think. 5 alts getting currently around L$3 every 10 minutes. The monitors are the hogs. Computers take about as much as a light bulb unless you have them doing every possible thing at once. Which SL doesn't do.

It equals out to this below for me currently:

L$3 x 6 = L$18 per hour.
L$18 x 5 alts = L$90 per hour.
L$90 x 24 hours = L$2160 a day.
L$2160 x 7 days = L$15120 per week.
L$15120 x 4 weeks = L$60,480 per month.
L$60480 = $216.16 USD
(at current rates of 270 lindens for $1)

That pays internet, electric, and whatever else ya want to use it for. Pocket money. Because someone wants my computer to stay on. Which it does anyway.

Typing this ""C:\Program Files\SecondLife\SecondLife.exe" -multiple -purge -noprobe -noaudio"
on a shortcut to the SL.exe file will allow you to run mutli SL windows and with less processing power needed.
You still need lots of ram and a decent computer though to run up to 5 alts. I have several computers anyway so I just split the difference on some that I don't use much.

I might add that some of the money I make on this goes back into the community. Uploads for my own builds for example.
It allows me to make things that I would not bother with othewise.
I'm certainly not going to put money in SL out of my own pocket. THAT would be crazy. I would rather feed my cat.
I mean SL is great and all but come on. Some people who have bills to worry about are running around here too.

yes but isnt that abuse of the terms and conditions ?

secondlife is a paid subscription game if you cant afford to play. dont.

SL is not a subscription game unless you choose to subscribe.

Even if you do subscribe, that doesn't mean you wouldn't want a few more L$.

There is certainly nothing in the Terms and Conditions against giving away L$.

The Lindens told me themselves they had nothing against me sitting and earning money.
It's really a way to distribute money around from those who have it to those who don't. Or to those who have higher priorities in real life anyway.
Although I asked them back before it became a big stick up some peoples asses.
But thats just my word on it. Find one and ask I guess.

I might do that again just for kicks myself.

I've payed $40 for the alts after I made the money from SL in the first place.
Subscription is free.
I'll admit that one of the alts I do not use because someone else uses it. But in the end it's still averaging $200 a month.
I know some make that in a day but good for them.

I don't understand why people are so upset that the DI and traffic will most likely be phased out! Didn't you see this was going to happen anyway?

Linden Labs has phased out just about every incentive there is in the game to make free Lindenbucks. This is just a further progression towards Linden giving away less game money. The events incentives were taken away about a year ago. Ratings costs were increased from L$1 to L$25. Months laster, the bonuses given for ratings were removed too! (In fact, I think it is a fairly poor decision for LL to still allow anyone to rate things. All your doing now is giving your L$25 to Linden Labs and getting nothing in return. The ratings system should be removed completely, if you ask me!)

These traffic (or Dwell) bonuses would have been on the chopping block anyways, even without camping stations! In fact, it could be argued that people giving away free money on their own with camping chairs wouldn't have even been appealing to most users if LL wouldn't have removed so many of the bonuses once given.

Linden Labs will now sell you Lindenbucks directly. Selling you these game bucks will be a major focus on their part in the months and years to come.

I suspect that within a short period of time, the weekly stripend for free (or 1 time pay) users will be reduced or removed as well. Doing so will cause an economic slowdown in SL. Vendors will have to charge less for products because many users will have less $L. This will drive down the LindeX too. In short, removing so many incentives will drive down prices. Lower prices means your Lindenbucks go further. Which also means each Lindenbuck is worth less against the US dollar. (Which we are already seeing now!) It's elementary economics. The writing is on the wall!

They were removed because they were being gamed, not because they were free L$.



Linden Labs do not sell L$ - except, obliquely, through premium subscriptions. L$ bought through the in-game interface, or LindeX, is being sold by other players. Linden Labs just manage the exchange.

Here's one great reason why camping does not equal popularity. Take a look at this screenshot I took just a few minutes ago:



Name of camper removed for privacy.

This user has been in game on the dance pad for 2,818 minutes. That's almost 47 hours solid at the time of taking the picture.

During that time, they have 'made' L$843, which on Lindex gives the grand total of $3.34 in real money.

There are about 20 or 30 people in this location, all zombies, dancing away whilst their owners go off and do something interesting.

I can't be the only one that thinks this is so sad. Out of the 2,417 in world at the time of writing.... are any more than about 6 not camping?????

Lewis

It is rather frustrating. My friend, Terramis, and I have spent many, many hours building an Egyptian temple, it has cost us a lot in uploading textures too. We wanted somewhere that people could come and explore and enjoy.

For this temple I have half a sim of Fujin, which is of course costing me quite a lot a month. I chose to take this expense, and I do so happily, I wanted to contribute something to the SL experience for others. I did not expect to be financially rewarded by the Lindens for it. However....

At the moment we earn a little bit of dwell which is a nice extra, it is only a very small amount, but it does jar that a lot of the 'pot' is going on these people with camping chairs who have done nothing but put them down somewhere.

That is rather upsetting. It would surely be more logical to reward people who create things which enhance SL in some way. There are many, many beautiful areas in SL which the owners are paying to let everyone use, and not being rewarded for in comparison to others.

Perhaps I am biased, but I would like to see a fairer system - surely it would be for the good of everyone in SL

Be like the cool campers... stay logged in for days.

http://www.slboutique.com/index.php?p=buy&itemid=46090

I understand the value of these builds; it's great for SL to have a wide range of areas in which to interact. However - this is going to sound harsh, and I don't mean it to, but I may as well be blunt - most people send a lot of their RLs watching or looking at stuff other people do or own and saying "wow, aren't they great.", and as a result are probably not going to want to do that all of the time in their SLs. Some of the time, yes. All, no. SL is not Lifestyles Of The Rich And Famous Online. Nor is it Lifestyles Of The Not Necessarily Rich Or Famous But Nonetheless Talented And Hard Working Online.

Camping is bad, but it'd be better to consider the societal situation that leaves to it rather than just trying to bar it directly.

Have the Lindens said when they will stop giving dwell? I'm not very informed about this issue.

"Sales scores" would be a good way of getting rid of all that good content crap. The nerve of ppl building just a nice place to visit!



Cat

roflmao

It's my understanding, based on Carl Metropolitan's 2pm (server) Sunday class on the basics of the SL economy, that dwell will remain, but Developer Incentive will be gradually phased out, to be finished March 31st, 2006.

As for the anti-idle thing, again based on Carl's class, it's my understanding that using a script/bot/etc to override the time-out feature [edit]to game the camping system[/edit] is at the very least frowned upon, and possibly a TOS offense. (Unfortunately there's no chat log, so all I have is the card with class notes he gave out at the beginning of the class to participants.)

Now, I realize Carl isn't an LL official, nor does he speak for them in any official capacity, but combining his class with reading the Wiki leads me to believe he did his homework on the issue, and did so well enough to qualify as a legitimate source.

(No, I'm not being paid by Carl for this. Though I wouldn't mind if I was. )

Every time someone rezzes a camping chair, God causes a kitten to have the hell beaten out of it.

Is that worse than killing it? I don't know. I wish we didn't have to think about it.

Considering one of the options (which I can't mention in a PG forum) for the player while the av is sitting there, I don't know if, ultimately, there is any real distinction between the two.

Well--Dwell may be phased out. As I said in my class:



BTW, Roh--your check is in the mail