What is wrong with people? Why are there so many bad folks?
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Carbon Breed
lol furry
Join date: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 119
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08-04-2006 03:56
From: Richie Waves done and done, but unfortuatley there is nothing LL can do. officially he broke no rules. being a thief isnt against the TOS >.<; I figured as much. But, as far as I know, personal matters via Instant Message and pressure on a peer-based level with incurrences of lack in cashflow for a business said 'baron' runs is also not against the ToS. This is mostly the reason for the latter half of my previous post. :3 EDIT: This also includes whatever the surrounding land owners feel like doing with the borders of their land, should they feel so inclined. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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08-04-2006 04:12
This is why Linden Lab needs to have a more 'hands on' approach to policing their grid.
Lewis
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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08-04-2006 04:55
The likely reason why Linden Labs doesn't do anything about it has been mentioned in this thread, and the reason is TIER. They can't legitimately charge someone for tier if that person is not allowed to hold the amount of land they are paying for. By getting involved, and forcing a return of the land, they would be disallowing a service that they are charging for, and not only would it be bad business but also possibly a good basis for lawsuits, as well as credit card chargebacks, since under US credit card laws one is allowed to dispute (and withold payment for) any service or item they were billed for but did not get.
It happens, its quite easy to have it happen, by not paying attention to the popup that asks if you agree to sell the whatever size parcel of land for whatever price to "anyone".
It sucks when it does happen, I have done it before but I really had no one to blame but myself for agreeing to sell land to "anyone".
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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08-04-2006 04:55
From: David Valentino I am often disheartened by how bad human beings are. How greedy, selfish, uncaring, cruel and dishonest.
It is a day-to-day common happening in almost every walk of life these days.
Sure, there are good folks, and most of them get the shaft by the bad ones time and time again. Self respect. Those that don't have it, don't consider respect from others possible and the effort then goes toward achieving notice through other means. Gaining status through ownership of things of value to make up for the inner value which is lacking is a common tack. While some follow a slow and steady course to achieve such trappings of success, far too many rationalize such actions as you describe in more ways than you can imagine. Here, they tell themselves that it's just a game, and the point of a game is to win, isn't it? They lay the blame at their victims feet for not being smart enough to prevent their action. Blame the rules of the system which allowed the action as well. All the while congratulating themselves for being more clever than the fool who worked hard to achieve their belongings only to loose it all in a quick minute and for being able to game the system. The irony is that in the long run, the loser is still the winner; in this case, evidenced by the loyalty of friendships such as yours. The player will have a difficult time being a winner in that realm, always suspecting others of that which they are so familiar. Like love, one must first respect oneself before the respect of others is fathomable and no amount of "wins" or shiny objects will fill that bottomless glass.
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hush 
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CJ Carnot
Registered User
Join date: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
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08-04-2006 05:01
From: Hiro Queso I have a fair few sims in SL, does that make me a land baron? I'd just like to know so that I can prepare for the shunning  That depends. Are you a member of the Plot Pals group ? |
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-04-2006 05:05
From: CJ Carnot That depends. Are you a member of the Plot Pals group ? LOL what a name, the dark side just do not have the imagination! |
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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08-04-2006 05:07
From: Lewis Nerd This is why Linden Lab needs to have a more 'hands on' approach to policing their grid.
Lewis Lewis, if no rules were broken, other than those of decency and good will towards others, what is it that they should be policing?
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hush
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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08-04-2006 05:18
Wow, that really sucks.  You aught to go over to other SL forums and make sure people know all about this piece of garbage and his aweful tactics. -Ghoti
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"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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08-04-2006 05:21
Something as simple as "[] List land for sale on Search" would solve the issue. Obviously, one friend selling to another friend would not be interested in listing land publicly.
These guys have been doing this a while now, and with LL's blessing, because in their infinite geekdom, they coverred their own asses, while liaisons are forced to toe the company line, knowing full well, that residents are being ripped off by this gang of thugs.
These gansters are lurking in pounce mode lately, all too willing to steal your land, for huge profits, because LL has turned a blind eye. It's a racket.
Unless LL fixes it soon, expect more of the same.
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stpaulsub Clio
Fear the Bubblegum Gurl!
Join date: 2 Sep 2004
Posts: 607
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08-04-2006 05:26
ok, i wanna know the name of the sperm burping bottom feeder who did it! i have been bored and looking for someone to becomes cozy with!
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From: someone David Valentino: I think I just like to play with the balls
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-04-2006 05:30
As much as I am sympathetic to anyone who loses land in this way to these shamless opportunists, I really can't see what LL can do. It is not stealing (at least not in the common use of the word), it's people taking advantage of others' unfortunate mistakes :/
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Carbon Breed
lol furry
Join date: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 119
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08-04-2006 05:32
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow The likely reason why Linden Labs doesn't do anything about it has been mentioned in this thread, and the reason is TIER. They can't legitimately charge someone for tier if that person is not allowed to hold the amount of land they are paying for. By getting involved, and forcing a return of the land, they would be disallowing a service that they are charging for, and not only would it be bad business but also possibly a good basis for lawsuits, as well as credit card chargebacks, since under US credit card laws one is allowed to dispute (and withold payment for) any service or item they were billed for but did not get. This can be touchy. It depends. Was the so called 'baron' actually paying for the 'service'? Or were they perhaps paying a member of an internal group based off of a form of exchange with no legal value? As far as I know, the Lindens don't directly sell L$. If the answer is yes, then the arguement holds merit. If the answer is no, then it just becomes a simple debate over right and wrong with the bars and holds of the ToS protecting the 'wrong' from being wrong in this situation. EDIT: Lewis brought up a point as well. From: Lewis Nerd This is why Linden Lab needs to have a more 'hands on' approach to policing their grid.
Lewis While I'm not sure entirely where he is going with this, (and do correct me if I am wrong), I would believe he is suggesting a sort of court measure on an SL level. You have a car. You're getting a new one. You have a son/daughter that is old enough to own a vehicle and will need one to traverse a large distance for a move, or what have you. For whatever reason, the vehicle must be in that persons name. Now, before you can sign this information over, the title is stolen. Sure, it was your fault for leaving it in plain site and making it easily accessible - but you can still contest the situation through the police. Why would it be any different in SL? Right now, I believe the answer to that question has to do with resources more than anything. |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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08-04-2006 05:37
From: Hiro Queso As much as I am sympathetic to anyone who loses land in this way to these shamless opportunists, I really can't see what LL can do. It is not stealing (at least not in the common use of the word), it's people taking advantage of others' unfortunate mistakes :/ Land set for sale to "anyone" by default is the problem. Most people do not realize two things. 1- That people watch the land list diligently and, 2- that P2P takes mere seconds. Immediately listing to the Search/Land Sales List, by default is the source of the problem. It can be fixed, in many ways which have been suggested for future updates. Torley mentioned in SL Answers, that some fixes were in development. |
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Cannae Brentano
NeoTermite
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 368
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08-04-2006 05:38
I saw a show about children's car seats a few weeks ago. It claimed that 80% of them are installed improperly. The conclusion was that if its that difficult to use them correctly, its a bad design to begin with.
The same concept applies to land sales. This is not the first thread of this type, nor will it be the last. I've dabbled in land sales, and those first few transactions were a little clunky. It very easy to make a mistake using the current controls. The problem is you have approximatly half a second to realize you made the mistake and correct it before your land is gone.
Land sales should be based on both parties reaching a mutual agreement as to the price, and not someone with more experience preying on the zero tolerance to newbie mistakes under the current system.
The solution as I see it - A seller confirmation button to finalize the transaction. Allow players to turn this safety measure off in the preferences; anybody who is experienced enough to figure out how to find and use that preference is smart enough to make sure they are not selling land to a stranger for one dollar per meter. This would give the best of both worlds.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-04-2006 05:41
From: Weedy Herbst Land set for sale to "anyone" by default is the problem.
Most people do not realize two things. 1- That people watch the land list diligently and, 2- that P2P takes mere seconds.
Immediately listing to the Search/Land Sales List, by default is the source of the problem.
It can be fixed, in many ways which have been suggested for future updates. Torley mentioned in SL Answers, that some fixes were in development. Wouldn't those with land scanners still be able to swoop in? |
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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08-04-2006 05:42
From: Laukosargas Svarog
Unfortunately, as I see things, we live in a culture where lying, stealing, cheating and coercion are actively encouraged. It's not due to "human nature" the root causes are fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain.
Yes, and I think most of us are blind to this. I know I was, until relatively recently. Certainly much of the commercial basis of our society is based on confidence trickery. It is a shame that given the protection of anonymity, the nasty side of many people is only to ready to emerge. |
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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08-04-2006 05:42
If you endorse a check intended for deposit prior to arriving at the bank and it is stolen, do you have any recourse?
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-04-2006 05:42
From: Cannae Brentano
The solution as I see it - A seller confirmation button to finalize the transaction. Allow players to turn this safety measure off in the preferences; anybody who is experienced enough to figure out how to find and use that preference is smart enough to make sure they are not selling land to a stranger for one dollar per meter. This would give the best of both worlds.
That's a good idea. |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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08-04-2006 05:42
From: Hiro Queso Wouldn't those with land scanners still be able to swoop in? Nope, scripted objects have no way of detecting land for sale based on price, size or owner. |
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Richie Waves
Predictable
Join date: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,424
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08-04-2006 05:43
From: Ghoti Nyak Wow, that really sucks. You aught to go over to other SL forums and make sure people know all about this piece of garbage and his aweful tactics. -Ghoti check SLuniverse WTFdrama 
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no u!
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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08-04-2006 05:44
From: Cannae Brentano I saw a show about children's car seats a few weeks ago. It claimed that 80% of them are installed improperly. The conclusion was that if its that difficult to use them correctly, its a bad design to begin with.
Yes, one thing I learned as a programmer is that while there might be inexperienced users, the programmer who doesn't take account of this is not a good programmer. |
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Tyler Stein
Registered User
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 51
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08-04-2006 05:48
From: David Valentino Of course there is right and wrong, and most of us have a great compass for it, whether we choose to follow it or not. You do others harm for no reason but your own personal gain = wrong
You do folks good deeds for no other reason than to help them and make them feel better = right
There are soooo many world-wide examples of clear, black and white, rights and wrongs.
Folks that deny that are just justifying their own bad behavior. Right On! |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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08-04-2006 05:48
From: Carbon Breed This can be touchy. It depends. Was the so called 'baron' actually paying for the 'service'? Or were they perhaps paying a member of an internal group based off of a form of exchange with no legal value? As far as I know, the Lindens don't directly sell L$. If the answer is yes, then the arguement holds merit. If the answer is no, then it just becomes a simple debate over right and wrong with the bars and holds of the ToS protecting the 'wrong' from being wrong in this situation.
What I meant was that tier is paid in US dollars, and IS recognized as income for a business in the USA, taxable, tangible cash income for the company(as opposed to Linden dollars which according to the TOS have no value), in this case the business being Linden Labs. As far as I know, we cannot pay our monthly tier charge in Linden dollars, maybe I am wrong but I always pay mine in US $ which are taxable and recognized, as well as regulated by the US government . My point as I meant it really had nothing to do with whether Linden sells L$, but it has everything to do with legal tender US $. I'm sorry if I was unclear. Its really late where I am. |
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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08-04-2006 05:55
From: Cow Hand Modern societies have no boundaries. Without boundaries, there is no right or wrong. wth ever, its friggin narcissist.. we should get rid of them all before any more breed.. they are reproducing like rabbits.. |
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Tyler Stein
Registered User
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 51
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08-04-2006 05:56
From: David Valentino I am often disheartened by how bad human beings are. How greedy, selfish, uncaring, cruel and dishonest.
It is a day-to-day common happening in almost every walk of life these days.
Sure, there are good folks, and most of them get the shaft by the bad ones time and time again.
One of the good folks, Haver Cole, recently bought a sim, that she is generously sharing with friends and people she knows.
In preperation, we moved a silly, tongue-in-cheek club from a chunk of land she owns on the mainland, and she went to sell this land to herself, in order to ungroup it.
As she was preparing to do so, she put in the price of $1, and thought she had set it to sale to only herself, but low and behold, a land baron with a script swooped in instantly and bought it.
Now it was no doubt a mistake on Haver's part, but the keyword here is MISTAKE.
She, of course, politely IM'd the person and explained that she was just selling it to herself. And being the greedy, uncaring bastard that he is, this person responded with what amounted to "tough luck". He refused to sell it back.
He is another script-using land baron that cares only about his wallet. From my discussion with him, he has proven to be just another heartless waste of good air.
Why do folks act like this? They know it's not right, yet justify it and probably sleep very well at night.
Was it ok according to LL's rules or the parameters of Second Life? Sure..probably. But we all know it still wasn't the "right" thing to do.
It's happened in the past many times, and will probably happen in the future many more. But I couldn't help expressing the contempt and dismay I feel for such small, rotten people and their small, rotten acts.
If anyone would like the name of this less-than-reputable land baron and his business, feel free to IM me in-world. David i see what your saying, and i agree! This person is obviously a horrible person becuase what kind of motive could he have to do such a horrible thing, thats right you guessed it NONE. To tell you the truth i think people like that should just be banned from second life and there IP address along with it. This is a message for all players(not personal) If you dont want to play the game for fun and you want cause dismay and upset people then do us all a favor and get off second life because nobody wants you and if you dont belive waht i say then you are a liar becase go up to anybody shoot them with a gun what will they do they will get angry and dont tell me they wont beucase nobody likes to be pushed around, so all the grifers get off and stop your foolishness. Thank you I just want everyone to know im not singling anybody out |