SLCC 2006 Feedback Survey (Even if you didn't attend)

meh - I have been following the thread... as I followed the ones prior and post the first SLCC... and the blogs and the rest.

Seems to me there is a core group of people that came up with the idea - pitched it - then worked their arses off 2 years in a row to make it happen..

And in return - they really get quite a lot of shit, and quite a bit of 'you didn't do it right - we should do it better'...

I say - go ahead and do it... without that core knot of people you wouldn't have anything to complain about not being done right.


I say 'core' because although it seems flip and jen get the lions share of the aftermath - there is a significant amount of people working hard at it and making very big commitments.



You'll never please all the people all the time - nor should you try. Just keep on refining what the process and doing what you think is right...

the folks that love it will love it....
...and the folks that hate it will hate it no matter what you do.

Chin up and Excelsior folks.

Its been really disheartening that so many of the of the SLCC threads that start off benign have devolved in the same petty bullshit over and over again.

They then wonder why LL has taken the desicions it has reference the forums I didnt attend this year due to RL work issues but hopefully next year and i look forward to seeing the results of all your hard work that you guys do for the conference, maybe all the critics should take time out and perhaps help you next year instead of moaning that they could do better

Peace

I can't even solicit feedback or answer questions without being attacked for it and then further attacked for defending myself, my husband and/or the SLCC. Its pointless. I just don't understand why just about every single forum post about the SLCC has devolved into personal attacks and just general drama. I feel more and more due to public opinion expressed here and in other forums that I have no right to defend myself, my husband or anything really and that I am just expected to bend over and take it. When I do defend myself, I get further criticized for being unprofessional or because I should be held to a higher standard of conduct. In clamouring to hear your own voices, you are effectively silencing mine. You can say what you want and I can't. Hooray for free speech if it applies to you.

I started the process of de-foruming a couple of weeks ago because I am sick and tired of being sucked into the drama void. I left Second Citizen because its a bile-filled drama fest occasionally peppered with decent conversation. I posted the survey there too in order to be inclusive, which was met with much the same response that posting it here has only with the added bonus of Prok's responses. I figured that I would stick around the SL Forums until the end, but now I am not so sure. Whats the point? Why should I continue to be a vocal part of the forum community? Its just not worth it anymore. It ends up making me look bad when I defend myself.

I love the SLCC and have enjoyed working on it. Its been a lot of work moreso for Flipper than for myself. It wasn't a waste of time though sometimes I do wish I could go back and not be involved. Despite being married to a social whore I am a very private person who is not very keen on being in the spotlight. I tend to like to be behind the scenes doing my own thing. I've tried to accomodate both aspects and its hard. The constant personal attacks and abusive criticism does not make it any easier abd because I am not used to being in the spotlight I respond to it negatively.

All that being said, I will continue analyzing the survey results. When the survey is finished we'll make the results available to the public though I seriously hope that it won't be on the forums.

All this has really made me sad. We wanted to open a dialogue and get feedback. We are responsive to criticism so long as we are not being bludgeoned in the process as it really hampers constructive progress. We've always tried answer questions. I am sorry that some people don't accept the legitimate answers and chose to draw their own conclusions.

As explained quite a few times before in this thread, a screen wasn't the problem. A bug with estates was, combined with the nature of streaming services. Your screen is an awesome piece of tech, and I thought it was very cool. Eggy had already been committed to do the simplified "four corners" build which fit within the sims, while IVM and OOB had been contracted to do the remote build. It had nothing to do with the lack of a screen; as a member of the FreeView project, I had easy access to screens. Please read my previous posts for details on the estate bug (which people keep seeming to think means we didn't have access to a screen - it doesn't), and why this decision was made. Eggy wasn't contacted because short of recoding the way video streaming works, or fixing a bug in SL's estate code, he couldn't do much of anything to help! Do people honestly believe that I would rather have come in world, over and over, during the busiest day of my year, shouting the URL rather than take 2 minutes to set up streams on screens?! C'mon. That's ridiculous. It would have been much easier to just set them up, and let it all crash and burn. I chose a path which would keep the server happy.


The video feed from MacWorld has been having this exact problem for many, many years, even with it at the lowest possible bandwidth setting allowed per viewer. Once people start losing their streams, and trying to reconnect, the feed is eventually lost. Ever try to watch video on CNN? Constant stopping and starting, connection failures, and so forth. Try it for yourself, and you'll see. The stalling I describe is the SL server, not the streaming server, and I'm sure you've experienced it; when time dilation gets so low so that all simulation within SL stops.


Yes, but as explained before, if the sim crashes, they don't have to all try to re-connect at once. Please read my previous replies in detail. I don't know how many more times I can explain it before I rip a hole in the time space continuum!

Clubside: Thanks for your kind words - to follow up, I had a plot set aside for you, still hung up your banners at the Convention (which made it onto some TV clips, hehehe), and invited you to the land building group twice. Did you not get either of my invites? I made a point of inviting you again after you said you hadn't received the first (neither had Luskwood - this was during the time that SL had problems with groups, which led to the temporary inability to invite new members to groups a few weeks back) and followed up. You've been a great sponsor, and I just wish we'd had the chance to meet in person! I think you have some very cool ideas about SL in the dialogs were have had.


Show me one. We put out a request for proposals to the community. It was announced in these very forums, the MotD in world, and on our web site. We got exactly two proposals, and decided to work with both of the proposals, since it became clear we had to shift our original plans due to the sims provided. We didn't receive a single proposal that was "for free." By the time we had heard from Of Oz, we had already committed, and I referred him to the people we had committed to. That isn't to belittle Of Oz's screen - it's an impressive piece of work...but please, get your facts straight. A SCREEN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LACK OF THE STREAM BEING SHOWN!

To everyone who has sent along words of encouragement, constructive criticism, ideas, and offers of volunteerings: thank you. Y'all are what make this all worthwhile.

Regards,

-Flip

EDIT: PS: These will be my last comments on the video stream decision. I can't explain it any more, and frankly, the conspiracy theories make no sense whatsoever, and I'm already blue in the face. Thanks to everyone who's helped out and attended, hosted, in RL or SL, with SLCC this year.

Jenn, I admire you and Flip for all the hard work you've done the past two years. Just ignore the fucking morons for what they are. I've not had the fortune to make it either year but still appreciate all the hard work everyone of you did and reveled vicariously through the reports and video and pics. As far as that asshat who tried to upbraid you to a moral standard because, *gasp*, you're a volunteer, well some folks need a look in the mirror more often.

The asshats that are pissing and moaning I'm quite sure couldn't pull off anything like what y'all have done in the past two years. I don't know how some of them fit their egos into this thread to be honest with ya.

I was there Saturday afternoon with about 10 people puffing on a Hookah.

I prefer watching it in Quicktime so the tech. problems were no issue for me

My only gripe was that Flip and Jennyfur never flew me in, and gave me accomodation so I could attend.

I didnt read this thread, but I have one word to say: Vegas.

Let's be realistic here, I work 12-16h/day, Cocoanut, and there's like 500 SL forums spread over 10 different websites...
If you don't have to work for a living in order to be happy about yourself and keep up a decent standard of living, then I am very glad you made it to the top. I haven't yet, but plan on doing so.
So if you'll excuse me I have to go and be a productive member of society while I am still young and energetic, so that my kids don't have to survive off of bread and water, or sleep under a leaky roof that wakes you up at 6AM with freezing rain on your face, on a broken matress with springs poking holes through my shorts, etc, etc.


Well I didn't run SLCC. Did you? What gives you the right to complain? Did you sponsor it, or in any way contribute to it? Do you generally go around telling people what a crap party they threw, when they are kind enough to let you in for free?


Ask your friend Prok what he thinks about oding things for free, and what happened in soviet russia, when bread was free... BUT... you had to stand in line for five hours to get it, and it was never very good, or enough for everyone.


Really? Send them to me, I have a full time job for them. I would love to get people to do my job for free. Tell me, coco, what do you do for a living? Why is it a more honest or worthy livelihood than SL work?
Are you telling me that you're completely unaware of the thousands of people who do this for a living? Because I'm sitting here at the office looking at the other 4 people around me who all live off of SL work, and thinking of all the other companies who do it, such as Avalon, Millions of Us, Infinite Vision Media, Electric Sheep...
Would it make any difference if I designed things in Bryce, or Poser, or Maya, or Povray, or Blender, or Lightwave, or Truespace, or 3D studio...?


He didnt have permissions over the land either, and as people have been trying to tell you, the video stream was purposefully canceled


What contest? People were asked to name their price. As far as I know, we got the contract because we underbid Hiro and Boliver.


Right, because that's how the mainland works, and we all know how good it is!
When was the last time you saw a clusterfuck of amateurs produce something of the same quality as a commercial venture?


Nobody's expecting them to actually *deliver* something, let alone something that meets a client's strict specifications, on a tight deadline.

Indeed, this is Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest on my part. But I must say, I do find this disbursal of funds rather shocking, considering all the talent we have on hand in SL.


Yes. We should all get "real" jobs preparing and serving meals to others, instead of this tekkie wiki 3D mumbo jumbo.


Have you ever run a successful business? Did you use to invite random people to do things for free, or did you think it wiser to hire professionals?

I took time out of my hibernation to go and fill out as much as I could on that very well done Survey. Much respect to the SLCC committee for all their hard work. I'm sure most everyone who attended had a blast! I know I did at the first one.

WE MISS YOU PEN! COME BACK! I was hoping you'd magically appear at this year's Con, but alas, it wasn't to be.

I'm quite sure that many people could have built something more appropriate and useable than that "thing" that appeared at the middle of the SLCC sims.

As for your comment about 'professionals'... the community here is not made up of mostly professionals - as in people who do it for a living - but people who do it for fun. The vast majority of people, once they stop doing something they enjoy doing for fun and start to do it for profit, soon realise that it is no longer the fun pastime it once was.

The 'professionals' will soon move on to something more profitable when it arises. The real enthusiastic people - those who keep SL alive - will still be here. We're the people that make SL, not those whose sole existance is immersed in buzzwords, hype and bullshit, and marketing Second Life to people who aren't going to contribute a thing to it or particularly care what happens here, as long as their brand is shoved in our faces.

Lewis

you ended your streak!

Not at all... you should know by now I'm always honest and always speak my mind, and will not be swayed by pressure from people who don't matter.

Lewis

What gives me the right to "complain?"

1. I repeat: They asked for feedback.

And yes, I did "in any way contribute." Or tried to. I haven't mentioned that, though, because my "contribution" was as much self-serving as it was a contribution. (Or would have been. I was donating a piece of my work to the in-world display, but got forgetful due to my gall bladder operation, not to mention the pain pills, lol.)

2. They did not ask for feedback only from those who contributed.
They asked for feedback from everyone who attended, both in world and at the real deal.

3. Eggy, I come from a very academic environment. And a very professional one. In those realms, criticism isn't considered an assault. Particularly not when it is requested.

Now if it wasn't you and Phoenix making these charges, but Flipper and Jennyfur, I would think I had been set up.

4. "As for your friend Prok" - you know, Eggy, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. I have friends, but I am NOT my friends. This is not about him or any other of my friends.

Repeatedly dragging a friend of mine into an otherwise rational discussion - one that has nothing to do with him; a subject that has nothing to do with him; and in which he hasn't even been mentioned, prior to you, as I recall - is not only insane, it's insulting to the nth degree and I'm sick and tired of you doing it.

coco

You know, Vegas would be good for me, too. I voted for Vegas and Toronto, because while Vegas would be handy for me and for a lot of others in the US (since it's a popular vacation destination with lots of flights in and out), I think having an SLCC in Canada might highlight the "international" feel of SL. I've also always wanted to visit Toronto and haven't yet had the chance. Canada would also mean a better value for my dollar because of the currency exchange rate.

I was wondering if it might be a good thing to alternate having the SLCC on the east and west coast (or that general area) each year, to accommodate the most people. I think a UK SLCC '07 would be fantastic, but I definitely wouldn't be able to attend next year. Also, I voted for October as a month I'd prefer; late August is pretty crazy for me since I'm getting kids ready to go back to school and finishing up their summer sports.

I also think it would be a good thing to leave the survey about SLCC '07 up for at least a couple of months, maybe even three or four, to allow a lot of people to comment. I really hope to be able to attend the next SLCC, but since I've got a family, there are a lot of things that factor into my ability to do so. My mind boggles at the amount of work the SLCC organizers have done in the past two years to make this whole thing come off, hats off to you folks.

I can't think of many places I'd less wish to visit than Vegas... but certainly outside of the summer when it's busy (and expensive) to fly would help a lot more people. SF for me in August was $1400 from the UK, and if I could tie that trip in with a visit to the US anyway it would be a much more viable proposition for me to possibly attend.

Lewis

What utter crap. You're a chronic complainer. If things aren't like you think they should be, you let everyone know. A couple of months ago you blamed your attitude on prescription medications. I don't know what you attribute it to now, nor do I care.



Gladly. Welcome to Ignore.

P2

Evidently you do, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to respond and add more fuel to the fire, then you throw a childish "welcome to ignore" to the mix.

By putting people on ignore, you are admitting defeat, that you don't have the capacity to deal with someone with a viewpoint you dislike.

Lewis

Fuck off, Lewis. The long running dispute between Coco and myself is none of your business.

P2

All very fine and good. However, the fact remains that I wasn't "talking trash behind your back."

I do work, by the way, and I raise a family, and all that stuff which qualifies as being a "productive member of society," and I was 26 once, too.


I didn't realize SLCC was a party some people threw, who were kind enough to let me in for free. I thought of it as something like a "Second Life Community Convention," with an inworld component. I don't consider letting people into it free "kind" at all - I consider it rather a responsibility, given the title of the event. Wouldn't you?


You miss the point. The point is not that you shouldn't work for money. The point is, it isn't your job to give away! It's the SLCC, which makes decisions on how they will do things or spend their money.

You are arguing, in essense, that the volunteers shouldn't work for free, either. I'm saying plenty of people would volunteer to do that build for free.

I'm a magazine writer, and have been for some years, with national awards to prove it. I've also raised two kids, taken care of the house as a housewife, and taken care of my elderly relatives. What, you think I was born rich or something? Totally NOT. Our family was all about the work ethic.

Who said that my work was a more honest or worthy livelihood than SL work? You did, not me. In fact, I ASPIRE to making more money from my SL work as well, so you're taking coals to Newcastle there.

I'm just saying SLCC didn't need to hire you.


No, I said I didn't think SLCC needed to hire you, and that I hope they don't hire out this work next year, when there are so many residents happy to contribute the build for free.



Jennifer said above that they put out a call for the build, but got only two submissions. Which I assume they didn't like, so they put it up for bid instead.


I already know from your past posts what you think of the quality of work from most people on SL, and their motives. But I invite you to look at Burning Life again for many examples of what people can do, and for free!

I think you put the cart before the horse in a way - you assume that someone calling themselves "commercial" means they are automatically quality, and everyone else automatically isn't.


Again, you think that if you call yourselves commercial and charge real world cash for your work that it automatically makes you so much better, in terms of quality, specifications, or tight deadline, than those who don't.

The tight deadline part is where I start to agree with you. As I said earlier, the time constraints (plus not enough people to handle everything) doubtless led to the putting the build out for bids when the two respondants to the call didn't please.

I have therefore suggested early that this be changed for next year, starting earlier to get these submissions for the build. As more and more people come to know of SLCC, and it gets bigger, it should become easier to get more submissions, in fact.


Again, I never said anything about your job not being "real." (God knows, I battled that same accusation plenty in my twenties.)

I'm simply saying there is no need to hire you, or anyone, to make an inworld build for the SLCC, when we have such a pool of talent already here, and when the idea is, after all, "community."


Yes, Eggy, several, and I still do.

But I don't think of the SLCC as "running a successful business." I think of it as a community convention, with volunteers, for and by the community. As I said before, I can see the cash outlay for, say, catering at the convention, but not for making the in-world build.

coco

Excuse me, Phoenix. I never blamed any "attitude" on prescription meds. I had my gall bladder out, and had pain pills for some time both before and after the operation. (And enjoyed them!) I believe I mentioned being scatterbrained because of it.

You, Phoenix, are the singular and spectacularly ONLY reason why I finally decided to stop supporting and promoting an otherwise fine newspaper, the Metaverse Messenger.

And as I've mentioned before, putting people on ignore is hardly the mark of a good journalist. But if it will stop your constant attacks of righteous indignation, then good.

Again, Flipper and Jennyfur asked for feedback, not you.

coco


P.S. I don't have any "long-running dispute" with you. We have a history of I say something on a forums - NOT even to YOU - and you come out of the corner with nothing but insults. And it didn't even start out that way. You just became that way after you formed your opinion of me, and have been that way ever since.

Anyway, I have given my feedback about the SLCC, which was my purpose in this thread, which I viewed as a discussion between the SLCC organizers and the people who attended.

Now that it has turned into some sort of a soapbox for certain people to start attacking and asking why I think I have a right to say anything, I would say we have derailed it enough.

Hi Pen, we do miss you !!

When you post it on a public forum for all to see, it becomes everyone's business.

When you're attacking a friend of mine, it becomes my business.

Deal with it. If you don't like what I have to say, don't make me respond to you. As long as you have the right to share your views here, so do I, and I don't need your permission either.

Lewis