Private Management of Neualtenburg Casino

Our Casino needs a major overhaul, including a new building and new gaming machines. It lacks overall leadership and promotional abilities, even though it could add welcome revenue and dwell to the city.

I'd like to propose a bill for this weeks RA meeeting transfering management of the Casino to a private management company (Digi Vox, and myself). We would help pay/work with the Guild to build the new Casino. The Casino's structure and plot would remain the property of Neualtenburg. The managment company would share profits with the city, giving the city 20% of the profit during the first 6 months, and 40% of the profit for the next six months. Terms of the deal would be renegotiable in 1 year.

The high start up cost of bank rolling and deploying gaming machines account for 80/20 6 month split. We plan to create the gaming machines ourselves, designing them to be friendly to the SIM. I think a determined management company operating the Casino is better both for long term dwell and revenue.

What do Neualtenburgers think of this?

I've officially made this the Guild discussion on the Casino. No sense in wasting a great thread.

Casino
Issues:

1. Possible lag from scripts
   
2. Move casino

Discussion:

1. Rewrite scripts
   
2. Relocate or raze casino
   
3. Allow Satchmo to privatize it!

~Ulrika~

Personally, I'm thrilled by the idea of this. You're an exceptionally talented artisan with a history of working with large projects. I can't imagine it would be anything but a success.

When folks around the city talk about "privatization", it often means they would like groups to pay for both the land and land-use fees. It sounds like you would like the city to continue to pay for the land and land-use fees, while your group would be in charge of redesigning the structure and games and then managing it. If this is the case we should compare your total costs against the city's total land costs to help guide us in making a fair split.

Also, instead of having a time-varying split, we might want to discuss selling bonds specifically to support your work (it would require an estimate). It would be a great way to reward ambition up front and spread the risk among many individuals instead of having you shoulder all the risk.

Additional concerns is that I'd like the revenue and accounting to be 100% transparent (logged to our server).

~Ulrika~

Also, there were discussions of moving the Casino. Where would you see it moving to?

~Ulrika~

This is a good idea, and I'm more comfortable with this than my arbitrary choice for percentage splitting.



Sure! I'll work on an estimate and we can talk more about this.



Makes sense, especially because I'm just proposing a management company to run the city owned Casino. No worries here, as I hope to help rewrite the Neualtenburg vending system.



I like the idea of the Casino being within the city walls. I think it is better for visibility that way, and it gives the Guild one more structure to influence the city. I've been suggesting that we nuke the Biergarten and build the new Casino in its place. Altenburg has a great pub and it moves the Casino off of the Marketplatz.

I'd also be open to any ideas that would move it even further away from the Marketplatz, but with 21 citizens in the city it's hard to find a location that wouldn't affect them. For instance, Digi and I have 4 consecutive plots near the MoCA, however Yogeswari lives across the street, and she probably would not have chosen that plot if it meant having a Casino neighbor. Nevermind that it would be questionable city planning to build a Casino across from a MoCA.

I rather like the Biergarten --I'd propose keeping and tweaking the existing structure and re-purposing it as a casino. The I would develop the gasthaus to be more of bierhall --love to work with Garnet on that one --I like her work near the expo and would love to incorporate much of it into the refitted-gasthaus in Altenburg.

I'm sort of fond of the place myself, after so many Thinker's meetings in it. but some adjustment (the floor has a large crack in it, frex) and reworking it would be great; a little "casino bar" deal.





*woooops) hit edit instead of quote --original message is still intact --Kendra

LIES ALL LIES... okay not really -- Aliasi

exactly --leave the outside porch as a cafe and put machines in the inside --add some beer kegs which actually sell beer (MY own breweries of course or the Casino won't get a liquor liscense from the Guild lol) and some tweaks to the decor --and we're good to go --it's a,pretty simple matter

Please don't put a casino in place of the biergarten! I am in the process of buying 2205 Tallenstrasse and I chose it specifically because of its proximity to the biergarten. I do NOT want to have a shop/house next to a casino. In fact, I don't like the idea of a casino at all. It's tacky and there are already too many in SL.

By Casino --I was thinking more of Montecarlo -- classy James Bond feel --not Reno at 4am in the morning

Well, Tai, even the current Neualtenburg casino is NOT your "typical casino". The draw to the current one is it is a "retro casino" - the games in it are some of the first ever made in Second Life, so it serves a purpose as a sort of "interactive museum".

In the case of a biergarten casino, if Satchmo, Digi, and crew are behind it you can rest assured the only thing it will have in common with any casino elsewhere in Second Life is the basic idea of wagering L$; as it is this plan seems to be less "tearing down" the biergarten than transforming it from a seldom-used meeting place to a place that would naturally attract people.

I understand your objections even with those assurances, (and hope you show to the RA meeting tomorrow if you can to air them!) and given my own land is far outside the city proper I can hardly talk... but knowing the work they do, it would indeed be more of a Monte Carlo than Reno or Vegas.

Reposted from here:



After reading this thread, though, I don't oppose the idea of refurnishing the Biergarten as a "retro Casino" - rather the contrary, I love that idea

Also, although in principle the SDF mostly prefers having City-owned structures instead of group-managed ones, I'm definitely not going to vote against the suggestion of having Satchmo & Digi run it, when it comes to a vote at the RA, if their proposal is subject to the guidelines that Ulrika has set earlier on this thread

PUBLIC OPINION WANTED

After discussing things with the RA at the last RA meeting, I want to hear general Neualtenburg public opinion regarding the Casino.

1) Should Neualtenburg have a Casino?

2) Should the city support the Casino with finding a location?

3) Should the city support the Casino with a special deed/lease/terms?

4) Should the Casino be run as a private business on private land?

5) Should gambling be outlawed in the city?

1) yes

2) yes

3) no

4) yes --much as Altenburg, The Schloss or (possibly) MoCA

5) The City itself is a gamble

1) No.
2) No.
3) No.
4) No.
5) Yes.

Edit: Just to be clear... I'm not a prude. I love Las Vegas, but I don't like the proliferation of casinos in RL or SL, and I certainly don't want a casino next door to me. I don't understand why N'burg needs a casino. What does it bring the city? Apparently not much revenue, and I doubt that it has a positive influence on the ambience or charm of the city.

1.) no
2.) if 1.) is yes -> yes
3.) if 1.) is yes -> yes
4.) if 1.) is yes -> yes
5.) yes

Mel

Whoa! I do not like the idea of gutting the restaurant, especially for a casino. It's one of two structures in the entire sim that are in theme, fun, and complete. How would you feel if we emptied out the church to make it a casino?

Much like you are the guardian of the church, Gwyn, consider me the guardian of the restaurant. I'm up for modifications and improvements but I don't want Urusula's vision deconstructed without careful consideration.

~Ulrika~

This is an excellent question. For those who are new, let me give some history.

The casino was seen as a way to bring in extra money back when the city was in the sim of Anzere. Once we moved, and citizens began to pay land-use fees, we thought it would be a useful way to raise money to help offset the cost of public land, increase dwell in the city, and to give us an attraction that was more interactive than the restaurant and church. We also did not want yet-another-casino (just like we don't want yet-another-museum) and set out to differentiate ourselves by using one-of-a-kind historical gaming machines with returns set to 95%. Thus it's become a unique and fun museum and gaming establishment rather than a dark-and-dirty profit-at-all-cost casino.

So my questions are, do we want yet-another-casino? If not, how will the new casino differentiate itself from all the others? How can we run the casino such that it integrates with city aesthetically and philosophically? Do we really want to expend CPU cycles on gaming machines or should those go to citizens and their own businesses?

With that said:
It depends if this implies taking over existing city structures (restaurant)? That concerns me. Otherwise combining lots in an unoccupied area is fine provided the relocation will not adversely affect the local neighborhood.

Only if the RA is not seen as providing land at a reduced rate while others make money on it. Remember, a reduced land rate simply means that all the other players are subsidizing the cost of that land with their payments. If the collective return to the city is greater than the cost to all the members than the answer is yes.

Sure. This is provided that the name "Neualtenburg" is not used and the covenant provides clear limitations on the number of scripts, the aesthetics, and the return rate.

Gambling is usually outlawed because it both acts as a regressive tax and draws the majority of its income from a small percentage of the population (habitual gamblers). Since poverty isn't really an issue in SL (income disparity is but that's another discussion), we only have to worry about drawing too many funds from habitual gamblers. Before I would outlaw gambling, I would seek a technological solution that would place a limit on how much money an individual could lose in a given week.

~Ulrika~

What? The gasthaus and the blacksmith's are chopped liver?

They're on private land so they're not potentially on the chopping block like other structures on public land.

~Ulrika~

Okay... but any suggestions for something to do with the restaurant? Gwyn holds church meetings; we no longer have Thinkers meets in the biergarten, so what do we do? Every square inch of the sim - to my mind - needs to serve a purpose. It doesn't have to be a money-making purpose, but "because it's been around for a long time and looks cool" isn't really sufficent in my book.

I would like to add that I, too, prefer the biergarten survive.. but we cannot just let it be a pretty building hogging space. Add something to do in it, find an event to hold, buy it up as private land... but something!

I know I seriously need to get the logs from Yesterday's meeting posted. But I need to get in world first to retrieve all the agenda stuff, etc. first. So it should be posted by tomorrow.

I will state that one of the things discussed was that if the Casino did take over the Beer Garten, that a part of the pub would need to be preserved. A "condition" so to speak. Mainly the balcony area. So the Casino would end up being a Casino with a "mini-pub" if it took over that location.

However, the RA has not yet voted on all of this issue (there are some parts that are Guild issues other parts that are RA issues). But some ideas were discussed at the meeting, and I'll be sure to get those logs posted no later than tomorrow.

Just to give me a better understanding: what is the reason that we cannot let the Biergarten be a pretty place?

So we lose a true Bavarian landmark for ... a casino?

If my representatives (RA and Guild) are listening, I do not support this in any way.

~Ulrika~

Exactly! Thank you.

And thank you Ulrika for so eloquently defending the Biergarten. I really love it. It's why I bought 2205 Tallenstrasse. Having lived in small villages in Germany I find it to be a very comforting establishment.

What is the big deal about purposeful use of public land? Should there be no city parks or public art displays if these things are deemed to have no purpose? And who gets to decide that? Is purpose only measured in financial terms? I said it last night and I'll say it again, pleasure is a purpose. And I do plan on hanging out there, even if I'm the only one. I find it relaxing and comforting.

Considering that the sim is, according to my understanding, self supporting now, I fail to understand the reasoning behind wanting to move the casino there. If the goal is to increase dwell, then lets organize more Expo type events in the city. Let's have arts and crafts fairs, performances, building seminars, etc. Let's make Neualtenburg a place where the most talented people in SL would want to live and the rest of SL would like to visit.