Marktplatz Lag

We will discuss these (and other) things at our RA meeting later, but for the sake of argument, here go my thoughts:

1) Change the Secret Tiny Village to somewhere else. I would not like to raze it completely, but simply to move it to some other (unsold) spot for now, and have a teleporter to there. Actually, I love the idea of the "hole in the middle of the Marktplatz" - that could still be the teleporter

2) Kirche. Well, some of you may know I have personal reasons for the Kirche to stay, and I won't get into that discussion again However, I agree that it may need some changes to use less prims/less textures/smaller textures/better applied textures. For this I will probably suggest at the RA that a Guild comittee studies the difficult problem of changing things to make them less primmy and laggy without changing the overall look a single pixel That will be a challenge, but I have been told repeatedly that it is not only possible, but much easier than a non-builder like myself may think.

With all due respect, Garnet, I will do my best efforts to be as often as possible near the team doing the "remodellation" of the Kirche to make sure it looks exactly like it looks now

Also, I sincerely hope that one day we'll be earnestly discussing "city expansion" to the point some feel that the Kirche has to go. At that point in time, I will start promoting the acquisition of a second sim instead

3) Casino. This is a double issue to deal with:

a) Move it slightly away from the Marktplatz. That will not remove the overall lag, but only the Marktplatz lag. The best choice so far seems to be re-using the space currently occupied by Urusula's Biergarten. Since I moved most of my events towards the Alterburg Restaurant (which was somewhat planned from the beginning to host discussion-type events), Urusula's Biergarten is now pretty much unused, and I think you all know the feeling I have about "nice buildings" in the city that never get actually used. So, either someone - or a group of someones - wish to use that structure, or, although I like it very much (despite the texture problems inside), I really do propose to replace it with the Casino instead.

b) Scripts of the Casino machines. Eggy Lippmann may be one of the best scripters in SL (and he's humble enough never to admit that, at least in public ), but like all scripters, he had to learn The scripts at the Casino are Eggy's "first-generation" work. While we can't expect Eggy to change them all for free (he's not even a N'burger any more), we can consider the following alternatives:

i) employ our own talented scripters and comission them new machines;
ii) pay Eggy to have him replace the scripts (this will probably be more expensive - Eggy is simply not in the casino game machines business, so he won't get a return for his work, unlike our own talented scripters, who would eventually be able to sell the machines by themselves, and thus reduce the price for us, as they would have an expected return on future sales);
iii) Simpy buy new, "modern" machines, which are less laggy.

I think that any of these alternatives is much more expensive than simply moving the Casino to another place. However, the more it'll be away from the Marktplatz/Telehub, the less income it will generate. It's a hard trade-off.

4) More shops at the Marktplatz. This is the "less radical" idea as proposed by Eugene. I'm all for having more shops at the Marktplatz, of course, but the restrictions on laggy scripts will have to be more adamant! With the Casino removed, we could have there 2 or 3 new shops with Guild-approved vendors. I'm all in favour for that!

On the kirche, I wouldn't expect anything less, Gwyneth; you love it. Second sim .. well it has been on my mind

I would like to point out that Rudeen returns tons of that junk all the time as the offical "sweeper upper" of the city, and usually does a fine job.

Likely things have been a bit busier lately and Nburg has having a lot more visitors. I have been seeng a lot of junk in my home sim at the same time and usualy it's hoverboards, cars, scooters and other "visitor" vehicles, not spy equipment.

Interesting idea but ... build tunnels and let coaches be this transit system.

I just found a post by Kelly Linden that I thought would be nice to share here as it deals with Lag issues.




Original post found here: /invalid_link.html

Not that it's a vote, but I want to say I agree 100% with keeping the church but making it less laggy, there must be a hundred prims that could be ditched in that structure.

I also agree with most of your ideas on this, but am I alone in wanting some details or numbers on this?

How much money does the Casino make? I never see anyone in there myself. How much lag does it create? Are the scripts chock-a-block full of open listens?, or is this just an assumption we are making that the Casino is causing the lag? I am not disagreeing with this idea, it's probably right, I just don't know how everyone is so sure about it.

I think its essential to our economic well-being to have shops in the marketplatz, but personally I would be very upset if the area was simply turned into shops and sold off. I dont think that is fair at all, especially to those that already have stores in the city. This would be tantamount to giving the very best locations, to the latest comers to the table!

I would suggest that we create one really nice store only that is the "Guild" store and has vendors for each of the guild members. That way no one person can monopolise what is essentially the best place for buisness in Nburg.

I like that idea. Good one! It can have a rotating inventory of monthly guild picks!

There is some financial data in Neualtenburg's Finance Statements , but as Gwyneth so bluntly put it... the Casino is worthless.

It's hard to measure the lag effects of the Casino without seeing the code. Perhaps we are inflating it's lag effect a bit, but the Marketplatz can use all the help it can get. However, every single machine in the Casino has at least one active script. This means it's always running with either listening, wating for email, on a timer, etc. I detected this using a simple script that just scans for all ACTIVE scripts.

Yes, I tend to agree with that - we have the "Kaufhaus" idea, ie. your idea under a German name, lol - a shop that is mostly "shared" by all citizens and has some "city vendors" with "city souvenirs" as well. Currently, it's a cramped place, but with some slight redesigns (ie. more available space), I guess it'll allow at least one vendor per citizen...

In order to keep the Guild in-forum meeting rolling along, I was curious if we've come to any conclusions on the Marktplatz. As I understand it we will be:

1. Returning all items in the Tinies city.
   
2. Shrinking the size of textures on the Marktplatz.
   
3. Adding an addendum to the city-wide covenant making the largest texture 512x512.

As I understand the procedures (Guild-RA interactions are still a little fuzzy):

1. The RA will need to vote on razing the Tinies city, since this is a change in the city layout. If this has already been approved by the RA or if the opinions in this thread are sufficient to stand in for a vote, let me know and I'll raze the wee city.
   
2. Since reducing image resolutions doesn't affect the city layout, as a member of the guild, I will begin shrinking textures as I have time.
   
3. The addendum to the covenant requires a vote by the RA, as the covenant is law and the RA's job is to make or modify law. Thus we'll need a vote on the resolution maximum. I can modify the covenant when it's done.

The church and casino will be handled in different threads. Let me know if I missed anything.

~Ulrika~

Will the texture size limitation be applicable to the entire sim or only inside the city walls?

I'm fine with it, just curious.

On the texture issue, while I agree that smaller textures are better, after reading this page on the LSL wiki: http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka.php?wakka=lag it seems that large textures should primarily affect client-side lag, not server performance. To the end user lag is lag, but I'm curious if we have collected any server performance metrics using llGetRegionTimeDilation? I think it might be useful to have a performance monitoring script that always runs and to chart the results. Has anybody done this? If not, would it be okay if I worked on it?

That would be great! But if we do this I would prefer that the object be hidden somehow.

The results from the RA Meeting Action Summary on the Tiny City are:

Guild will remove/[store] the current Tiny City. The RA requests that the Gildemeister submit ideas for future use of the Tiny City. Including if it will need to be funded by the Neualtenburg City or by a private citizen.






While this is an addendum, not a "proposed bill", the RA is currently handling the taking of proposals this way:



As per our Meeting Procedures


Personally, I would also add that I think allowing a clause for an "exception" to the resolution maximum by ruling of the current Guild Master should be included. Just in case there does happen to be something down the road that requries a larger resolution for whatever reason. That's just my opinion though!

I've stuck out a Scrubbie and monitored the stats screen now and again, but haven't really bothered to chart it - it's kinda obvious we have lag, the question is what's causing it.

Oh, and re: your texture query, I'd assume that such a rule would be sim-wide. (there's very few reasons to have such large textures anyway; with the way SL renders in most situations a smaller texture run through a sharpen filter works as well or even better.)

That's possible, but I was also thinking of maybe having a performance "scoreboard" in my place on Tallenstrasse that would display the results. What do you think of that, if it was in a private residence?

Or I could even keep it in my future residence out in the North 40.

I was under the impression that such was already the case for any portion of a covenant; that the guildmaster could authorize specific exemptions. I know I had to get one such.

I think it would be beneficial to have historical data so that as objects are added or removed from the sim we would know with certainty the impact on server performance. Also, it would be something fun for me to work on.

pretty much what I meant by hidden

ayup

Gotcha.

I would add the removal of gaming machines from the current casino location, and general awareness that active scripts casue lag.

Cool! Would be nice to have it in writing somewhere. Is it already included in the Covenant wording? If not, would probably be a good place to add it.

I'll be removing the casino this evening, and awaiting the decision of the RA on my Rathaus proposal, I will be replacing it with the original 3 storefronts that existed on that location in Anzere.