Marktplatz Lag

May I ask for clarification about this point? It is my understanding that, upon uploading, all textures are converted to JPG2000, which is a multi-resolution file format, and then displayed in SL in a resolution appropriate for the frame (i.e. is the texture distant, close, at an angle, etc). Is this the case? And if so, isn't it quite irrelevant what the uploaded texture sizes are, since SL is not displaying the tex's as they were uploaded?

Pendari, I'll take a stab at explaining how all this texture size stuff works. Textures width and heigh are coverted to the nearest power of two. So, textures can be any combination in X and Y of (eliminating super small ones):

32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024

128x1024 is valid. 32x32 is valid. 1024x64 is valid... etc.

A 512x512 will (typically) load about 4 times as fast as the same graphic at 1024x1024.
A 256x256 will (typically) load about 16 times as fast as the same graphic at 1024x1024.

Also, due to compression and artifacting - and the sharpening filter SL uses - graphics will often look *better* at lower resolutions than the higher ones.

Now, consider the problem I posted above, of the friend I had in our mall who just didn't know any better.

She had, on a single 10 meter by 10 meter wall, forty 1 meter by 1 meter boxes, each with a different 1024x1024 texture displaying the item that was being sold.

Since a 1024x1024 texture is 1048576 pixels, and a 256x256 texture is 65536:

The sim was forced to send (1048576 times 40) = 41943040 pixels worth of data, instead of 2621440 pixels worth of data to every client.

In this example, we reduced the pixels downloaded per avatar viewing from:
41943040
to:
2621440

You're looking at orders of magnitude now... now imagine having 20 people in the mall area. It goes up MUCH higher, again.

This is why keeping your texture sizes small is so important... if you EVER want stuff to rez for people who don't have it cache'd on their hard drive.

Make sense?

-Flip

May I ask for clarification about this point? It is my understanding that, upon uploading, all textures are converted to JPG2000, which is a multi-resolution file format, and then displayed in SL in a resolution appropriate for the frame (i.e. is the texture distant, close, at an angle, etc). Is this the case? And if so, isn't it quite irrelevant what the uploaded texture sizes are, since SL is not displaying the tex's as they were uploaded?

Sudane

Here is actually a great post from Flip that he posted in response to a question I had about texture issues:

Thread found here: /120/99/61800/1.html#post644994/120/99/61800/1.html#post644994

My personal opinion is that we Raze the Tinies city, the sooner the better, to prevent interference with the Expo. I'd like for Eugene to have a say before we do it though.

~Ulrika~

It's not the resolution of the textures in the kirche. It's the amount of textures unwisely applied.

I was wondering about this also.

I was afraid at first that it was the "new" fatchwerks that had different textures, that were putting a load on the server, but my store and sudanes house seem to load as fast as anywhere does.

It seems like a general server lag to me, i.e- not just in the platz. I have no actual data or anything, just a feeling that maybe it is nburg-wide. Since the last time I remember the lag *not* being present, all the new houses in the valley have been added as well. Perhaps its just the sheer amount of new textures?

No -- not the "amount" of textures. It's textures that are applied badly and textures that are too big.

If you'll notice there is far less lag in "Altenburg" then on the platz.
All my textures originate as no bigger than 600X600 and are rarely applied with more than 8 repeats per face. (and most often 1x1)

Texture lag is generally a result of having to process poorly made and poor applied textures. "Altenburg" uses many many textures --but they are for the most part custom made for the surfaces they belong on --so very little resources are needed for the server to render them.

Similarly, the new Schloss which will end up having more textures than god loads incredibly fast, because the textures are all below 4X4 ratio.

The lag is definately on the Platz. Kendra zips along outside the city walls and in Altenburg, but can't move without great difficulty thru the platz.

...I totally agree (this is why we enforce texture size limitations in Midnight City and I noticed they do the same in Amsterdam)...

Please add the 900+ Active Scripts to the Marketpltaz Lag issue list. We need to identify uneccesarry scripted items, rewrite critical ones and discuss ways to keep active scipt limits low.

I think we should also adopt a 512x512 pixel maximum resolution for all city builds and place it in the covenant. This will need to be something that's voted upon by the guild. What say you?

I think we all agree that the Tinies City is a lag beast. Shall I log in now and return it all?
~Ulrika~

*ahem* Not wanting to stir up controversy or anything but I am working on an alternative design for the kirche in case of need. I love having it there, I just think it could be simplified and a bit prettier. Please note this is not to criticise Bladedancer at all.

Would nuking the Tinies city take care of most of the problem?

Aside from that we have two vendors, two ATMs, and the casino.

I plan on releasing the vendor code as open source as soon as possible so other interested Nburgers can improve the code and make use of our web page to track sales. Perhaps we could all look through the code and make suggestions in the forum first before we officially release it.

The casino is currently maintained by Eggy, who is quite skilled at creating low-lag scripts. I could discuss the topic with him and see what he thinks. My only concern is that he's quite a busy fellow and the Casino brings in very little income for him in proportion to the amount of work it requires to maintain.

~Ulrika~

Nuke it, but announce that it is moving to an as yet undtermined location for a grand re-opening. Personally, I think the Guild should purchase land in the valley and build a gingerbread village for the Tinys. This accomplishes 2 things --privatised funding for the Guild --and the ability of the Guild to control future lag abuses.

Destroying or moving the tinies city is fine by me. Without the tinies city we will have more room for events, and even another attraction

Another thing I have noticed is that there are unseen objects belonging to non-citizens that I have found by looking at the "about land" feature on each parcel. Sometimes it is as simple as someone leaving a box behind, other times I've found cars buried in the ground. And sometimes invis prims that who knows what they do. At any rate, I'm returning these objects on the land that I am able to, and making a list of the land that I am not able to do so on so that the owners can do take care of it.

Has anyone returned large quantities of non-citizen objects recently? The number of active scripts dropped from over 1000 to 372 in the past few hours. Sim FPS has doubled. Satchmo reports a feeling of much better performance all around the sim (I still crash frequently there, but who knows what that's about.) I can't detect any other major changes...casino is still up and running, tiny city hasn't been razed, and I doubt anyone has gone through and done a major retexturing.

Still could be improved, but this is much better!

I was wandering around deleting unidentified objects owned by non-citizens. A surprising number of them actually. Who the hell knows what they were or what they were doing.