Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww
Not sure of that, though. I hear that it upped their VIP rate to $25 a month and haven't really fixed the glitches. Just added more area for the glitches to occur in. Also added apartments, which come with their own glitches. lmao

Ok I will give you that... Maybe...

But its them that didnt anticipate the problems.... Thats part of the cost of doing business... So fix the problems internally... Buy more servers, more bandwith, etc...

You cant just screw the people that you sold the product to... Look if there were no big up front costs to sims, if we were all just renting them.. Id say "ok.. They have a right".

But to SELL the product, then not deliver what you SOLD, thats just wrong.

The problem there is that LL will tell you that you did NOT buy anything, you only paid a setup fee.
That is their get out of jail free card.

Dear Mr. Linden,

I sure don't envy all the posts you've got to slug through today. Here's the thing: I've owned 1/4 mainland sim for oh, two years or something now. I pay $75 a month for it, plus account fees. I can't terraform it or change textures on the land or anything fun that an estate owner (or estate renter) gets to do....

And someone on an openspace sim gets 4 times the land space that I do, plus all estate abilities, for the same price. That's hardly fair, and for that, I think it would be logical to rethink your pricing plans, either by raising opensim tier or (harhar) dropping mainland tier a bit. It sure does seem that you guys do a lot of improving all the time for estate owners and not for mainland owners. (Fixing roads is rad, but I mean, it didn't make my land run faster or do cool things.)

But even feeling as I do, I think you've made a poor choice in how you've implemented both your original policy and your changes. You can't just raise someone's tier by 66% and expect them to roll with it. Seems odd to halt the edu breaks, too, since they are probably some of the ones that can be really trusted not to parcel it out for homes.

It would seem to me that the best plan would have been a gentle reminder that OpenSpace sims are intended for light use, along with a very clear definition of light use, and then just crack down on the abusers. You've already stated you've got the data about who is doing it, so why not put it to work with the G-team and sort it out? A harsh blanket action like this is not going to win you any friends and had I bought an openspace region for any purpose, intended or otherwise, I'd be livid.

Best of luck answering all these questions.

-Thau

Naaa no court would buy that. Part of doing business, in the legal realm is called "Good faith expectation"

Why do you think people do that for??! That's crazy!

I didn't complain when they lowered the price of the full sim, even though I only bought it a few months prior the announcement.... Was a bit disappointed but willing to bear with it. But this move by LL really insults the residents, and even though I only own one openspace sim, this type of action makes me concerned about how this will affect the economy and also whether tier will also increase on full sims... Who knows?

A bad business decision is a bad business decision, and this one certainly makes people lose confidence in LL CEO's ability to run the company.

isnt it?

first drop the price for openspaces and its tier.

many many fullsim owners purchased a huge amount of openspace sims

increase openspace price (its going to the serverfarm limits?)
INCREASE THE OPENSPACE TIER.....MAKE MORE MONEY!

the arguments are unsubstantial!
opensim owners can only do what the server (LL) allowed them!

thats a nasty joke....time to say GOOD BYE in january

anyone like to buy 2 openspace sims?

I'm not calling anyone a troll either.

I spent a fair bit on entertainment here also. No longer though. And I was not inferring anything about your English. I think you are perfectly understandable.

Perhaps it is their intention. I doubt it. I posted a remedy to abuse of OS and it had nothing to do with punishing the majority for the crimes of a few. I suggested they "fine" the abusers, perhaps by applying full size sim fees to them or just banning them from game if it is bad enough.


I agree. Linden reminds me much of GWB, they do whatever they want whether it is wise or intelligent or not.

Wyoming and Colorado are more fun but Idaho grows more potatoes. Anyway, LL is making SL harder to enjoy/

Indeed, here are the stats I collected below:

3087 Prims
~13ms for Physics
~5ms for Scripts
1468 scripts
- NOTE: However there are 8 avatars on the sim at this time so the 'number of scripts' metric will differ and some of the other latency stats.

Also, this sim contains and underground base. It also has a working pump, also includes animated and interactive consoles.

Smells like a double standard to me, because this sure isn't "light use"

I donno, i diagree, compared to a 15000 prim (full sim),it sure is light use. And more importantly, its within the guidelines of what was sold to them. Like it or not, they are using what they paid for.

If I buy a can of pop, thats a lot less then buying a two liter... But no onw says I can only drink half the can, just cause I bought the smaller version....

(however I do agree the scripts are way high for a 3750 sim, but thats an opinion, not a violation of LL's rules, I dont think)

Just a thought.

Lets see where to even begin on this subject?

You can set prim limits viewer and server side (indra constants in the viewer)
You can throttle bandwidth server and client side.
You can adjust build height, viewer side and server side.
you can program the physics and replace the scripting engine with Mono.
You can do just about anything really...

Yet you cannot program Openspace sims to limit scripts / agents (add whatever you like to the list here )

But you can re-program the viewer to let people know when they are on an openspace sim??

Your Insulting your paying customers intelligence here.

You can charge me what you please, but don't treat people like idiots.
No matter what Spin is put on this its plain and simple Cobblers!!
The OpenGrids are laughing at you!
And you seriously think they will want to interoperate with you??

Ah what they hell does it matter... not Jacks fault he's just the messenger.

Best Regards,

Kirsten,

Openlife Viewer Dev,
Realextend Contributor.
Opensource Viewer Builder,
And long suffering Secondlife User !!

Probably the worst decision since the gambling ban (the original one of making openspaces as attractive as they are). Unfortunately the remedial action you are taking is likely to have similar consequences to the gambling ban, that is, people leaving in droves, profits down ect ect.

Much easier to digest would be to have a script limit on openspaces, say 100 scripts. Anything over that could just be switched off. Limit the number of AVs to 25 and thats it. Surely the number of prims cant be an issue otherwise you would never have raise the limit in the first place (would you?).

People cant moan at that because the definition of openspaces has been unchanged for years. You wont do it, because the 'real' reason behind this change is to try and get people back onto mainland and rebuy the thousands of abandoned parcels you have been reserving for auctions that will no doubt start in the new year.

In future, try at least to sleep for one night on your arbitrary decisions that affect thousands of peoples leisure time and hundreds of peoples income.

When you arrive Jack, would you like to defend this decision in the context of Mark Klingdon's recent comments in an interview on CNet News about the future of Second Life, particularly the following:

---
CNet: "What challenges does Second Life face?"

Kingdon: "Linden Lab faces the same challenges as any other business, retaining and attracting quality staff and customers or users, staying true to our core values, staying ahead of the competition, and making enough money to stay in business and reinvest in the business.

"It's a mistake to ever think your business isn't ruled by those common requirements. We've all seen online businesses, for example, that never satisfied the last requirement in that list."

---

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10074637-52.html

It seems to me "making enough money" has eclipsed all the other requirements.

---

CNet: "What do you think the future holds for Second Life and virtual worlds in general?"

Kingdon: "Linden Lab and Second Life are really at the cutting edge of the virtual-world phenomenon, and much of the innovation in-world is driven by residents.

"To be honest, I can't think of a time I've been in-world and haven't been blown away by what residents are doing on the Second Life grid. That is the real power of the model, and that is the reason why it would be really easy to underestimate just what can be achieved in one year, five years, or 10 years."

---

Careful you don't blow yourselves away.

I think you missed something in the thread. I understand that this is the example lite open sim that Linden runs. Not an open sim sold to someone.

Firelight

OH lol

Bump

I really can't believe we're being penalized, yet LL is using 1463 active scripts on that sim and only have 637 prims left. Let me get this correctly, it's not ok for us to use our sims and what was given to us, but its ok for LL to do so? I mean sure, it's your company, but we are paid customers who are entitled to what we pay for.

I'm not one to bicker about the choices LL has made in the past, although I am not always happy with them, but this is just insane. Please have a little heart for those who've supported this company from the start and those who are continuing to put their faith in you.

Region 'Mos Ainsley' is not a good example of what Jack Linden and LL are saying an OpenSpace is meant for. No trees, no water, prims upon prims and tons of scripts are exactly what can be found on that sim.

Very sad

Ah well, since Jack is still asleep, I will write his answering post for him.

" thank you for all your comments, please watch the blog for further comments on this matter "

This forum is now closed.

lol

why dont we all TP to Mos Ainsley http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mos%20Ainsley/131/131/48 and see how many avatars LL allows in?

So this is how Linden Labs treats it's customers? Unbelievable.
It's enough. December 31 will be my last day in SL.

I'm using Linden Lab's definition of "light use" also it's an OpenSpace sim not a Full prim sim, and the sim is owned by the Lindens themselves.

please ignore this if it has been previously discussed in the thread... but...

There is a 60% or so increase in price for... nothing?

Why would LL scare away open land owners? that seems rather silly to me.

This is a linden owned estate, Naughty.

We're just saying there's a double standard. We are told OpenSpace sims should only have water or trees. Well, that's not what they have on this sim, a lot of everything else and very little of what's advised by them.

I waited 10 counts to write this because all i can think of are words that are not allowed in a forum like this, but actually its all you deserve!

I am enjoyed doing Business in SL and yes i have a rental company on OS, but i think in a good way with water, privacy and beautiful areas, i put my RL money and my RL time in this...

Your announcement will make me quit this, this is not the way of doing business mr Linden, this oh i want to curse...

Read all the pages before, no explanation needed, enough said already, although i do not think Lindens are the smartest in the world or are you?