Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

Scripts do cause lag.... test it yourself..I did! I've had prim with large scripts that I removed from my sim, then added prim back to the sim that did not have high time scripts and there was considerably less lag..... it doesn't take but a bit of investigating to figure this out...maybe a bit of common sense though. Why do you think people are creating objects that require less script time? Would they bother if it wasn't a problem? I doubt it! It's no different than any other computerized operating system! Get a clue! But it IS the only thing LL hasn't set a limit on for OS sims! An OS should be limited to 1/4 of a full sim (acceptable) usage for 1/4 the price...and this includes scripts! Can you put more prim on a sim than it is allowed? No! Same should apply to scripts, as well.....AND..the number of avatars. Lag is lag and there is a cause for lag... pretending that your high script time objects or many scripted objects aren't a problem at all and have no effect on sim performance is only fooling yourself!

Granted, I am by no means an expert, or even claiming to be an advanced user as far as understanding resources goes, but I have this wondering:

If I max out my draw distance (and for sake of wondering- loaded everything there was to see) at the intersection of 4 OS sims, I can potentially 'load' all 4 sims into my view - potentially totaling 15,000 prims of whatever from 1 server.

If I do the same thing on mainland, I am potentially loading 60,000 prims of whatever from 4 servers.

Doesn't the limits of an OS itself keep its need for resources already lower?

I am here to discuss the issues. If you don't like what I have to say, feel free to put me on ignore. Personally attacking me will get you nowhere and when you quote posts and post directly to me I will answer when I feel it is appropriate.

Thank you for keeping track of my post count, I'm sure you find it very interesting.

You have suggested that I not post as much but really what business is it of yours what I do?

Seriously, use the ignore button if you don't like my posts.

I will not be silenced from expressing myself by you or anyone else for having and expressing a different opinion than the prevailing one. In case I haven't been very, very clear already.

Your post to me does not mention any issues about the openspace sims, it is personally directed towards me and my post count. Yours is only 4, so why waste 25% of your total poists on me personally?If you would like to discuss the issues, then discuss them.

If you would like to discuss me personally and my post count, I am sure you will continue to do so.

With the current economic downturn in RL, a foreseeable recession for the coming year, how could Linden think that people would actually afford extra price hike on optional game playing in life?

In a recession, the first thing people would cut is the non-essential item such as game playing.

The assumption that this price hike would only affect the land barons who are making a profit is so naive and short-sighted that if they never seemed to see the food-chain effect:

Linden rips land barons off -> land barons rip renters off -> renters rip customers and residents off -> resident end-users get the short end of the stick, and say screw SL -> with no renters and no customers, the land barons can't pay the tier bill -> Linden foreclose the land -> renters get evicted from the foreclosed land -> Linden lost its income stream -> Linden can't pay the bills -> Linden announces SL is over -> Linden closes it door -> Linden Lab put up for sale -> the credit market freezes -> no one is willing to lend any new buyers any capital to buy -> with no buyers, Linden Lab closes it door finally for good -> Linden auctions off its CPU and servers -> Open source community will have a field day -> hurray for the market economy 101.

I think Linden is hoping that the Fed may pump L$750,000,000,000 to bail them out of this.

Wait... what bailout? what economic crisis? Aren't we all cash cows with tons of discretionary cash to blow off in SL in this economic downturn?

Answer to Thomas:

Yes and no! I lower my draw distance before going to mainland or estates that have several regions joined together. The 'personal' lag created by by loading all those pixels is because it is loaded into the memory of your computer. System lag is created by several things, for example; using all the prim for the region (15,000), scripts being used and the number of avatars. This overloads the server that the sim is downloaded in. This is very much like your personal computer. If you have a lot of programs running at the same time, your PC will take too much time trying to run all your programs at once and cause your programs to take forever to load and run and even 'freeze' your screen until it sorts it all out. This is what happens on SL when too much information is trying to process all at the same time, like prim, scripts and avatars (avatars have scripts and a lot of the objects on avatars have scripts). If you look at your lag meter you can see if the SL system for that region is lagging.

Snow has a problem confusing legitimate questions about her motives with personal attacks. She is in favor of this increase because it will benefit her rental business. In the last months she has had to knock 20% from her price.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to jump from LL going under to a freeze in the credit market.

Just my opinion, of course.

Chris is making stuff up about me. He finds me fascinating but has not learned an appropriate way to show it. FYI Chris, this forum is not about me. So questions/comments about me are inappropriate in this forum.

No, its no about you, but its good to know where you are coming from...

.d

See what i mean! good day to you too! BTW not to shabby it only took you 13 minutes to reply! And for the record i have posted how i feel about what is happening, however this forum has turned into a debacle with you and a few other others leading the way. Now i have used only 40% of my post to attack you, im sure the % will rise even more since you are infact the one who just cant keep the fingers off the keyboard. More then one can play your childish game! And another for the record ...... just for shiggles my fingers slipped on the ban button on my 14 sims,i know of a few other fingger slippages too looks like the count is somewhere around 150 and change now. Keep up the good work hon soon you will be destined to only be on the mainland. And remember opinions are like a**holes we all have them. My opinion, and my attack on you is... better left unsaid, maybe you will follow suit.

I am not one of the ones complaining because I will make 66% less.

I have been reading every post and finally decided to post my opinion about this. I only have a little over a year working independently as a builder and awhile back started offering my services and support in virtual real estate. Before ever getting into Second Life an old friend of mine told me about this place, it took over 7 times to try Second Life...my friend was very excited and kept bugging me to try it....... anyway, finally took the plunge last year and worked my way up as a builder and from there into virtual real estate.....things were really going well until Mr. Jack Linden announces the price hikes.......all my clients are leaving SL to go to other alternatives, so now am returning their SIMs back to Linden. My friend who referred me to SL has also left. The prospects ahead are not good at all and by next Spring or Summer will be closing my Full Prim SIM.....will be researching other virtual world technologies. I really think the announcement was bad timing, especially in the current state of financial crisis going on in real life.......instead lowering prices in the time of difficulties they raise prices, the other way around......very absurd.



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http://www.wildwestgames.org

I ask you Chris and Snowflake very humbly to please do not continiou this personal things. Please notice there is a way way bigger enemy to us all busy destroying our second lives.
Please let one of you be the smartest to simply stop responding to the other. It really would help the fight against LL very much.

Oh, so your problem is that you will be making 66% less profit on your 14 sims with the new changes?

I feel sorry for you.

No but you have a vested interest, and I asked you before to spit it out. I have roughly the same holdings as you, maybe slightly more.

Did you not advertise one of your full sims at 95,000L a month? Did you not drop the price to 75,000L a month? And it was still empty at the middle of the week.

This isn't personal. But when someone hides their motivations for cheering harm that is befalling the community, the community needs to know why.

I have stated repeatedly that I happen to believe that OS's are contributing to the asset server problems and other problems on the grid, and that the pricing seems to be a good deterrent, judging from the outcry. I have also further gone on to state that this is just my opinion, and I admit that perhaps I am being overly optimistic in hoping for positive change from LL.

Also that LL's customer service is lacking and the way they communicate to customers sucks.

This IMO is one of the biggest reasons for the outcry. The way it was announced.

You seem to be lacking some information. Keep searching.

Not quite so fast Penelope Pitstop. Much earlier in this thread you were pointing out how good a bargain estate land would be compared to openspaces in the new pricing structure.

It is indeed personal, because Chris does not agree with my motivations, which I have told him repeatedly.

He seems to be on a mission to attack me personally, by stating that it is somehow wrong for me to rent a very small amount of land in SL, while there are many, many people in this forum, including him, who work for bigger estates and are upset because they now have to pay more.

Since we are discussing motivations and all that, Chris, your profile states that you work for Cristalle Properties, so I am sure that your motivations are financial as well.

She is simply not worth the aggrevation - I wouldn't be surprised if she were a Linden in drag. She has nothing positive to offer just a broken record. She probably deserves our pity as it seems her entire self worth is stating her contrary opinion in a thread that doesn't concern her. She is obviously on the SL tit.

As I said in my post, scripts can cause other parts of the frame to use more time--it all depends on the script. But scripts themselves get lowest priority of all the things a sim does; they get (pretty much) whatever is left over after everything else has expanded as far as limits allow.

But again, it depends what those scripts are doing to the sim. A script could factor 75 digit numbers till the cows come home and have no effect on physics (although it would affect other scripts, some), but if a script does physics, or (god forbid) rezzes prims, or changes prim properties, or communicates with backend systems or viewers, sure, the corresponding slices of the frame will expand and the sim will lag.

Also, scripts are far from the only thing that's not effectively limited on a sim. On most sims, probably the most lag-inducing thing of this sort is textures--which is felt client-side, but also impacts the sim in "Image Download" and "Network" statistics. (Indeed, right now, it would make more sense to limit textures than it does to limit prims, but there's a bug in how textures are handled that magnifies this effect many-fold.)

I've been in SL just over a year now and have prospered with an OS Sim where I have a classy Jazz Club. I have made every effort to not utilize lag-producing scripts.

However, along comes this Jack Linden trying to torpedo SL just like he did AOL - by using this classic "Bait & Switch" tactic. I am sooooo tired of lining LL's pockets with my money (almost 2 million L$ over the past year) only to have them show absolutely no respect for us sim owners.

If anyone else is as PO'd as I am, I would encourage you to look at this SL competitor. I like it so much that I have purchased a sim there where the owners are determined to not to make the same mistakes SL is making. The site is http://avatarhangout.com/index.php?page=home&btn=1

Take a peek - I bet you join and buy some land as they gear up for the big-time.

Well, if that's the spin you want to put on it, the numbers are there for anyone who has a brain or a calculator. Actually if you search back I was referring to how an OS will cost the same as a 1/2 sim for tier fees under the new pricing structure.

$125/mo = 1 OS sim 3750 prims 65536 square metres

$125/mo = 1/2 mainland sim 7500 prims 32768 square metres

Additionally I believe LL thinks it will drive people back to the mainland and their new sims such as Nautilus. I know that others agree with me on that point, because there was a big protest crashing Nautilus the other day..






Have you decided what your stand is against me?

Is it because I have estate land, or because I also own a free 512?

Or are you just deliberately trying to be controversial?