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Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-31-2008 11:54
Can you provide links between your crashes and OpenSpace sims? I seldom have a crash, when I do it is usually ISP related. I am on a 4 year old computer with a lower middle range video card. I merely wish you to offer some proof to back up your claims. And Jack seems to be backing away from his "abuse" claims, now taking the tact that we are getting too much "value" for our money. I can provide you several links to where I stated that it was my opinion. |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-31-2008 11:59
Deterrent from what? abuse problem or people buying the OS in the first place? The OS's that remain will still be abused. The one's that people abandon will be gone... Not sure what your point is? The end result of your scenario is fewer abused OS's, with the ones that are being paid for, paying a higher fee which will supposedly go to providing the extra support. |
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Arkad Baxton
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 34
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10-31-2008 12:04
I have never posted anything in the forum but I am very tempted to post because of this issue. I have an open sim with a house in an island surrounded by trees and water. I hardly get any traffic at all, never had any lag problems, and despite my house and landscaped area, I still have 850 prims free. I have probably cause a very minimum amount of nuisance to LL, and despite that, I will now have to shell out a lot more to keep my opsn sim. Living outside of the US and with the full sim owner from Europe, I would have to pay my share of VAT and the currency exchange rate (a total of $178 CAD per month). I am not going to pay such excessively high price especially that I have a very light footprint in my open sim. I love my house and island, but it is not worth it to keep it. I understand LL and their situation, where people would use open sims to their advantage (opening clubs or high traffic attractions such as malls), but they should have seen this coming. You have a full staff of highly educated individuals in a boardroom, to come up with possible abuses, and they could not think that someone would take open sims to their advantage?? If the purpose of an open sim is landscaping and buffering, why did they offer so many prims in the first place? Does it really take 3750 prims to build a forest? What they should have done was to keep prims to a minimum (ie 2000 prims less) to prevent those who want to open a mall or a nightclub, or possibly limit the number of people allowed to perhaps 20 at a time to prevent lag. By increasing the cost (tier and purchase) substantially will not only be not effective, but also run the risk of mass abandonment from a large number of people. The purpose that I bought an open sim was to create a natural environment for my own house and a place to relax. But more importantly it was affordable and the tier was low enough. And I am sure most open sim owners have that same reason for owning an open sim. If the new pricing comes into effect, I will abandon my open sim. It is not worth the cost. Sorry for such a long message but I had to get this out of my mind. Thank you. You said it all mate. I use my only one OS sim as my home only as well. The traffic on it next to zero. Used about 2000 prims. Hardly any scripts running... and yes I agree with you on that Linden Lab knew EXACTLY what 3750 prims can be used for and that people WOULD and WILL use it. If the performance issue would be the real explanation and not the growing revenue, then they could simply limit the maximum avatar number allowed on those sims, or lower the prim limit. Jack's explanation really seems like a cover up for the simple real reason: making more money. |
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Jini Hammerer
The green chick
Join date: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 196
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10-31-2008 12:05
LOL I didnt say I wanted or expected them to leave just that surely they can come up with better arguements than slamming LL for wanting to increase their profits There is a lot better ways of increasing their profits but I don't entirely believe its profits that's the motivation in this. Advertising the game comes to the top of the list of things they do not do that they should. When is the last time you seen any advertisement for second life by LL other then on their own site and well fan sites. Closest thing to advertisement I have ever seen was when it was on CSI NY. It was word of mouth that got me here. someone mentioned it in another game i was playing. Before that I never heard of it. Providing incentives to get more people willing to be premium members. possably applying hindrances to those who are not like ... how about advertising sponsors for non premium accounts. Not allowing non premium accounts to log in with anything other then the LL client. (this would also kill the major majority of bots freeing up resources for real players) Collectively the participants of sl, are like a major resource like a super computer of ideas and thoughts and massive financing. We built this world we are so passionate about and like anything people care about will fight to the end over it. Our ideas may not always be the best, sometimes our actions are not what was to be expected. Treat us with respect, and present us with a problem and we as a collective will toss tons of ideas your way. But on the other hand pointing fingers at us only gets fingers right back at ya! LOL |
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Firelight Simca
Registered User
Join date: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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10-31-2008 12:08
The end result of your scenario is fewer abused OS's, with the ones that are being paid for, paying a higher fee which will supposedly go to providing the extra support. My opinion is that while there will certainly be less OS sims, that the percentage of OS sims which fall into the "abuse" category will be much higher. Now, whether that makes the actual amount of abuse less or not depends on how much people increase usage in order to pay higher tier and how many are converted/abandoned. And it would be good customer service if Linden would actually explain what part of support will be increased with the extra tier. They've been asked in several meetings and just have given some vauge answers that could have meant anything or nothing. Firelight |
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-31-2008 12:09
And Jack seems to be backing away from his "abuse" claims, now taking the tact that we are getting too much "value" for our money. LL's value for money and (lack of) customer service, and method of communicating with customers, are 3 things that I think we can probably agree upon very well. Perhaps I am just being overly hopeful for positive change, and the sky really is falling and the grid really will collapse under this latest change. I'm going to continue to wait and see what pans out though. |
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Mustard Stand
Registered User
Join date: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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Now what do we do?
10-31-2008 12:22
we have just been given notice that we have to have everything removed by 11/02 and now we have thousands of dollars in inventory, and, are frantically looking for another sim to buy.. not, pay a 1.00 for, and, now this... "openspaces" closing.
This has caused a mess, I can understand the theory behind it, but, now where do alot of us go that was just starting a project and buying items and building items and then this happens. It sure put a damper on things...., lol.. I can see where some people have abused the fact of it all.. Guess back to the land sales, daily....Has anyone forgotten that there is a "recession" in certain parts of the RL world and now what?. lots of abandoned land, people and projects removed due to the new policy of "open space sims".. I am sure I am not the only one out there that will be looking for a commerical island or whatever, starting today.. Back to square one... |
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Lesheran Odriscoll
Neko Taco Pirate
Join date: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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10-31-2008 12:23
I haven't read all 200+ pages of comments, but have you guys at LL thought adding something that would be used more like real open space. Something along the lines of 500 or even as little as 100 prims, and reduced agent supprt. Maybe 10, 20 or so?
I am not sure if limiting the number of agents per sim would work. Due to child agents looking into the sim. Perhaps something with child agents would have to be done as well. Which would also fix the problem on mainland where you have 80 child agents and only 1 real agent on the sim and the real agent is unable to move due to the resources being eaten up by all the child agents. Other restrictions might also have to be considered for this kind of space. Like not supporting rezzed scripted objects. While still allowing agent attached objects to run scripts. Such as AO's |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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10-31-2008 12:27
There is a lot better ways of increasing their profits but I don't entirely believe its profits that's the motivation in this. You should be able to buy SL gift cards in the checkout line. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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10-31-2008 12:28
Other restrictions might also have to be considered for this kind of space. Like not supporting rezzed scripted objects. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Lesheran Odriscoll
Neko Taco Pirate
Join date: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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10-31-2008 12:31
That restriction would make their value US$0. Too many avatars depend on scripts. When I said rezzed objects. I did mean rezzed in the sim and not attatched to an agent. I have updated my post more clear. Tanks for the input  |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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10-31-2008 12:34
When I said rezzed objects. I ment rezzed in the sim and not attatched to an agent. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
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Taff Nouvelle
Virtual Business Owners
Join date: 4 Sep 2006
Posts: 216
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Re, reply from Jack on concierge group.
10-31-2008 12:40
Quote:
4:40] Jack Linden: Dimentox: We have talked about technical throttles, and we may yet move in that direction if we decided, for example, to create a truly light use region type with hard script/agent limits OK, Now I am REALLY confused, werent we told that the problem was that the OS sims were light use sims??? Now Jack says they may one day create a light use sim? Ok please somebody tell me what that means. It seems to me that this comment means they are not really light use sims, just that they were recommended to be used that way. |
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Tobias Novi
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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Sim classes
10-31-2008 12:46
Full Sim - 15000 prims 65536 sq.m. - 295$
1/2 Sim - 7500 prims 65536 sq.m.- 177$ (~20% increased price to full sim, max.30 avatas,can be purchased without Full Sim) 1/4 Sim - 3750 prims 65536 sq.m.- 105$ (~40% increased price to full sim, max.20 avatars can be purchased without Full Sim) Home Sim- 3750 prims 65536 sq.m.- 75$ (max.10 avatars,Script limit set , L$ transactions disabled on sim , can be purchased without Full Sim) Scenery Sim- 500 prims 65536 sq.m.- 40$ (max.20 avatars ,L$ transactions disabled on sim, can be only attached to Full ,1/2 and 1/4 Sims 1. Fix the VAT issue ! Include VAT in the prices ! Allow to pay tier in L$ ! 2. Fix the Bot issue ! Make it useless for the abusers to have 30 Bots logged in to raise the traffic numbers ! There are great Bots showing of clothes , skins , shapes , animations .. but those traffic Bots are just insane . 3. Continue to make mainland attractive again , do themed zones FAST and MORE , MORE MORE , but SET A PRICE LIMIT , open markets is good but 150000 L$ for a 1024 sq.m. plot doesn't make your mainland attractive ! 4. You did it with ad-farms , do it with obviously annoying buildings as well ! Glowing boxes around whole plots are not free expression of yourself , they are abuse ! 5. Give us back the trust in you Linden Lab , give us back the trust that you believe in Second Life and in its future and not the feeling you only want to squeeze the last money out of us before all ends ! |
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Lesheran Odriscoll
Neko Taco Pirate
Join date: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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10-31-2008 12:46
I think it would be a significant amount of work to implement that distinction. That development time would be better spent on fixing bugs. They fix bugs?  They actually fix a lot of things. I know how problematic software releases can be. As I am actually a software test engineer in RL, damn RL how do I uninstall that. Just tossing some ideas in here for them to consider.I have been thinking about upgrading from the mainland sim where I am now to a private one for the past few months. I was also planning on purchasing 8 open space sims. However, At the new rates I am simply not even considering any part of it at all. |
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Breeja Breen
Registered User
Join date: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 3
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30 days
10-31-2008 12:47
I haven't seen this pointed out as yet. But many of you are curious as to why so many OS owners are abandoning now or in November. The new objectionable increase is for January. The payment of that increase is due in December. So it isn't a 60 day notice to pay-up but a 30 day notice as it is DUE in December. Just a fyi.
There have been so many great suggested solutions for LL to consider scattered between all the LL flames and great sad stories *heartfelt* all. Is there a thread somewhere with just the suggested solutions that are being discussed? Breeja |
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Taff Nouvelle
Virtual Business Owners
Join date: 4 Sep 2006
Posts: 216
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The Real Reason.
10-31-2008 12:49
we have just been given notice that we have to have everything removed by 11/02 and now we have thousands of dollars in inventory, and, are frantically looking for another sim to buy.. not, pay a 1.00 for, and, now this... "openspaces" closing. This has caused a mess, I can understand the theory behind it, but, now where do alot of us go that was just starting a project and buying items and building items and then this happens. It sure put a damper on things...., lol.. I can see where some people have abused the fact of it all.. Guess back to the land sales, daily....Has anyone forgotten that there is a "recession" in certain parts of the RL world and now what?. lots of abandoned land, people and projects removed due to the new policy of "open space sims".. I am sure I am not the only one out there that will be looking for a commerical island or whatever, starting today.. Back to square one... And that is EXACTLY WHY this is being done, now the people who were going to use, or were already using OS sims for projects, will go and take a piece of the mainland that LL are losing sales on. Everyone can see it, it is so damn obvious, the OS sims are not a problem, there is a problem with the viewer texture loading that LL have been able to spin into a problem with OS sims, and that now leaves a big hole ready to be filled by cheap mainland sims. |
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Daniel Regenbogen
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 684
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10-31-2008 12:54
I haven't seen this pointed out as yet. But many of you are curious as to why so many OS owners are abandoning now or in November. The new objectionable increase is for January. The payment of that increase is due in December. So it isn't a 60 day notice to pay-up but a 30 day notice as it is DUE in December. Just a fyi. You have prove for that? As I understand it (and even from LL side there always was talking about 2 months notice) the first raised fee is due at the first billing day that falls in the month of january. |
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Shawwn Ballinger
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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ill will
10-31-2008 12:57
I was just informed by another Estate owner that got it from a Linden, that there will only be free conversions back to full regions for the ones that has has gotten OS in the 2 weeks PRIOR to the price increese announcement!! Can any confirm this and if it is true that ISNT acceptable at all .. there are thousands of OS out there that NO one will rent or use for anything .. all this will accomplise is ppl dumping their OS sims. If it turns out that this is true then it bears out my original argument. Ill just post a link to it... /354/1d/289652/64.html#post2196387 if that doesn't work then search the thread for "The policy versus the intent" but heres windup... Read between the lines. None of this is about community or even about infrastructure and load. Its about LL's bottom line and how they can protect it into the future. No amount of pleading for fairness will have much of an effect, and if they introduce any amount of redress it will come with a fee, just like last time, Free Islands! (just pay the tier!) They are done with us (Private Island Landowners), they have nearly picked our pockets clean. Now they just need to steal our tenants and push us off the cliff. The only question left is... where to build the cliff? No worries, they will have a nice new continent for it just as soon as the homeless masses are hungry for mainland again  they are showing us their ill will, and that will be that. |
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xTina Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 1
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what now??
10-31-2008 12:58
So should I pick my stuff up and bail out?
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Shawwn Ballinger
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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10-31-2008 13:03
So should I pick my stuff up and bail out? absolutely not, unless you cant afford the months tier... let them finalize their decision before you do anything drastic. |
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Arkad Baxton
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 34
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10-31-2008 13:05
It's a very smart system. Win-win method.
1. If to keep the sim, 125USD monthly fee. 2. If to abandon it, LL gets it free to resell it. 3. If to sell it, 100USD transfer fee to LL 4. If you upgrade it, 100USD fee to LL Win-win. They make money on ya no matter what you decide to do. |
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Daniel Regenbogen
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 684
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10-31-2008 13:17
It's a very smart system. Win-win method. 2. If to abandon it, LL gets it free to resell it. Win-win. They make money on ya no matter what you decide to do. If they find enough people who trust them enough to put that much money to such a company again. |
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Prankster Loon
Registered User
Join date: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
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Philip must meet pie!
10-31-2008 13:17
I suggest someone gets Philip Rosedale a whip cream pie in the face.
Today's flavor is pumpkin pie. =) |
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Taff Nouvelle
Virtual Business Owners
Join date: 4 Sep 2006
Posts: 216
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10-31-2008 13:18
The only reason that LL are still talking to us, is so that they can spin it later when they want to make it look as if they tried to do the right thing.
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