Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

No that is the "giant sucking sound" of 35,000 copies of a backup program yanking everyone's personal content down to their hard drives.

(just couldn't resist that saying rofl)

Back to the topic....

So you want your estates to be popular then, you have 2 don't you? You have an agenda here.

No, I am just trolling, remember? You said it yourself.

I have no right to have an opinion or express it.

If I do, my motives are purely financial and financial motives are not OK, unless like you, you stand to lose money by the price hike, that is.

You were trolling, you were being deliberately controversial.



I never said that and would never say that. Everyone has a right to an opinion, even whilst trolling otherwise I wouldn't be addressing you.



I've never said you shouldn't have a financial motive, but you do have a motive so why don't you just spit it out and cut the silliness.

My SL partner and I had a dream. It was a simple dream to some, but to us, it was a significant dream. We wanted to have an island...a home in SL.
We started shops in SL in March this year, I design and make clothes, my partner was a teacher in SL, now makes animations.
Fuelled by our dream and with much work and dedication, my partner and I increased our shop rentals and therefore sales which enabled us to reach our dream. We got our Open Prim Island. Only had it a couple of months.... now our dream seems to be in tatters.
We are small time compared to many in SL, but we are contributing and we care about the SL community.
We dont overuse or abuse our open sim, we have our home there, it is our retreat from all the hard work involved to reach our dream... our reward to ourselves ..... so why are we to be penalized for the actions of others??
Please be fair to your community Lindens... find a way to 'tax' over users of open sims and allow the home owners to enjoy the things they have worked for.
We all contribute and pay into SL.
I sincerely hope you are listening and will come to a fair and caring decision.
Thank you for taking the time to read this reply.
JayGee2 Vollmar

If only we could generate this much dialogue and fervour over some real life issues... Starvation anybody? Homelessness? The current global economic crisis?

I'm pretty amazed at how upset we can be over Second Life. What does that tell us about ourselves?

The lack of an educational discount for OpenSpaces is reprehensible. Linden Research is not what it used to be (and I do not mean that in a positive way).

http://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=74166

for the edited transcript.

this thread is just a blackhole. Don't expect any formal response to any of these threads.

it tell us that we're human and will always put the things that directly impact us first.

I've seen a lot of people suggest charging based on bandwidth. Please don't do this unless you do not include avatars in the calculation. Charging by bandwidth would create a new form of griefing. People could wear a bunch of heavily scripted attachments, and visit your area to run up your bill. If you weren't online, you'd have no way to know.

Please just put a cap on total frame time that will correspond with the level of usage that LL expects for the regions. The servers throttle full sims at 22ms total frame time, just make that a lower number for the openspaces.

I've been in the software business for 30 years. I've been working for the same company for the last 17.

I was on DARPANet in the 70's, a SYSOP on CompuServe in the 80's, and after Al invented the Internet, have had a web presence for a decade and a half.

I spend roughly U$4,000 a year here. I've been *very* tolerant. Despite a lot of grief, I've restrained myself from expressing any dissatisfaction, because I really do admire the concept that Philip is promoting.

That said, I'm just about at the end of my rope with Linden Labs. The quality of service is horrendous; the regression testing seems to be non-existant, from what I can see. The same problems happen over and over and over again.

Distributed, high-volume systems are no easy trick. Good customer service is nowhere near as hard, and generally helps to buffer customer disapproval, but it seems like Linden Labs is run by a bunch of yahoos who don't have the first idea how to relate as human beings, much less as savy business people trying to communicate their positions to their customers.

I can forgive a lot of the tech issues that Second Life has experienced in the last couple of years; growth without proper pre-planning can always be bumpy. I've been on several projects that have suffered from unanticipated rapid growth of use without the proper infrastructural foundation, so I can empathize. However...

I have *ALWAYS* put the customer first. I have *NEVER* treated my customers as if they were stupid children who needed to be set straight. I am *VERY* disgusted with the apparent lack of customer relations savvy that Linden Labs has repeatedly exhibited, and if you had *ANY* competition at all, I would have left long ago for just this reason.

I can easily afford the extra U$50 a month that is proposed, but there is no coin left in Linden Lab's credit for my respect. You're the only game in town, so I don't have anywhere else to go for what you offer, at the moment. I will continue to live in Second Life, in able to take advantage of the service when it's available, but I will certainly not recommend it to anyone, and I will leave as soon as the inevitable competition arrives, unless LL gets bought out by someone who can actually run a business.

Dare I commit the ultimate blasphemy and remind us that this is "just a game"?

The viewer has defects causing the viewer itself to function with all other LL v1.2 based viewers to function as a gigantic DDOS on the asset system. So you don't have to worry about residents wearing attachments. All they have to do is be present in your sim and the bandwidth related to your sim will be high. These defective viewers were released along about the time LL syas they began to think open space sims were being abused when it was the viewer all along. However this factor and jira defect is being studiously ignored.

So the signal is that you can protest, quit, abandon all ye sims all you want. the price hike is happening. It is part of a larger plan related to the goal of 1 million concurrency.

Suck it up and pay or don't. Your choice.

LL is going to die sooner or later... At least the way they are going is to dead end. I just wounder if we are going to get our money back after they finish sinking SL. LOL

And is the monopoly money that we pay to LL and jack is the monopoly guy.

Two points.

1)

Openspace sims have the advantage of allowing objects to be spread over a greater land area. I have to believe that there isn't a lot of resource usage related to the size of a land mass. I assume it is mostly related to the prims, scripts and AVs on the land mass. So, a 256x256 sim with 3750 prims would not seem to me to have much resource impact over a 128x128 area with 3750 prims. Openspace sims allow prims and textures to be further apart or groups of them to be further apart from other groups.

It is likely that on an openspace sim, the viewer has 1/4 fewer textures to deal with, which improves viewer performance.

Due to the crowding that tends to happen on full sims, openspace sims are actually much more attractive.

If you are going to financially force people to full sims, maybe you should make full sims 512x512 with 15,000 prims. That would allow the open space feeling on full sims that many people find so attractive about openspace sims.

2)

Since windlight, texture lag has continued to climb. I love the look of windlight. But it comes with a cost even for a medium to high end graphics adapter. I find the only graphics setting that seems to make much difference at all is draw distance. This may not be true with all adapters, but it is what I notice, even with relatively recent graphics adapters and on multiple PCs.

It also seems to me that texture caching doesn't work like it used to. It seems to me that it used to be prior to windlight, that once you cached a texture, it stayed there for a long...long time or until you cleared the cache. Now, it seems that the viewer has to reload the texture every time you change regions or log on.

Could it be that it is other factors like these that are causing the unexpected backend load that has been referred to? Maybe the perceived problem with openspace sims doesn't really exist to the extent that LL feels.

Watch this and tell me it's "just a game": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBlaiBV_yJs

66% more performance?
They should use a 1/2 CPU instead of 1/4 and double the prims for an extra 66% price tag

That is what i say... i can make an effort to pay 66% if i have 66% more performance. If I do not and i can't "live" there cause i am abusing and i am abusing cause i have a store, why do i make my effort? To have 3700 prims in fishes? no, no fishes cause scripts.

Yes.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8503

Read the analysis posted on 29 October.

The SL Windlight clients are a gigantic DDOS on the asset system.

Force everyone off windlight viewers and back to the old non windlight code base and i bet that additional heavy load disappears completely.

But that won't stop the price hike. That is happening regardless.
Even if 10 million accounts quit tomorrow and all private islands and all mainland was abandoned this price hike would happen.

Its only a game to those with either too much money or nothing to loose.

Anyone who actually purchased a OS already invested at least 1,250 USD and pays 370 USD per month at minimal thats if they ownly own a single sim and a single open sim.

Thats not play money thats not game money thats a car payment on a lexus money. so its not just a game for the people who pay that money, the very same people LL wants to gouge for even more money at the tone of 50 bucks more per open sim.

Thanks for sharing that Georgette. As a person who has spent 35 years of his professional life working with people with disabilities(yes I'm old, lol), it is wonderful to see how Second Life is used for such wonderful uses.

Of course, this does not negate my astonishment at how the other 99% of folks in this thread who are not disabled are so wrapped up in this. And honestly, those folks who are using "Wheelies" would most likely see it as a game too. It is enjoyment.

I am not anti-SecondLife. I'm coming up to my second rez-day soon. To quote John Lennon (I believe)... "Time you enjoyed wasting is not wasted time".

Do not pass go...


(sorry could not resist)

I dont know much but there is what im thinkin...

First of all i think you should have think twice about this openspace project...
I think you linden have lot lot lot better things to do then care about a st*pid (light) sim project that would be used only for forect or ocean...Another thing is,you guys have realy badly evaluate this project before put it available,VERY low people can afford to pay 75$ montly just to have a whole forest or ocean sim view...This is totaly pointless if all we was supose to do with them was to look at them from outside since it was too laggy and all that to use it in other ways then just a view.

My idea about it is that was just a test to evaluate this project,by saying it wasnt made to build and all that,they wasnt having any kind of reponsability about how fast those sim was going to be...IF you give to people the right to put 3750 prims and bring 50 friends at time on this sim,be sure they will do it.

Sorry but 75$ montly just for a useless forest,just rich people can afford it.Since it made for rich people and for light use at hight price,then it was easy money again for linden.

You could have easily enticipate everythings going on right now,but once again you decided to play with us.The land market was already too bad.Now its just another hit and for loads of people its going to be the last hit no doubt...


Think about it,loads of people end up sharing sims with three other resident(so they all own 16 000sqm each),for me having an openspace or having a 16000sqm on a normal sim should be the same thing.You should be able to use it the same way.Personnaly i never had problem sharing 16000sqm on private island but i had problem with openspace as well.

What i dont understand is if some openspace was taking to much resource and it wasnt good for other openspace that was sharing the same place...Then why we never heard about some normal sim having that kind of problem,after all normal sim still sharing the place with 3 other normal sim.


If you guys realy wanted to spend your time on valuable and apreciated project,you should have look about all the people that dream about owning their sim but they couldnt since it was 300$ montly...

How ridiculous is that,we need to own one normal sim to be able to order openspace...Seriously if i could afford a normal sim i wouldnt waste my ****kin time on openspace...

So by doing this,once again only money people can get to buy them.

Now what is the option for normal resident or little compagny to get their own private place?
Let me think,mainland,way to laggy we dont even think about it.We cant afford to buy a normal sim and so neither an openspace from linden...Whats left,renting or buying from smaller compagny in sl but at the end we still loosing money.

Just imagine compagnies renting an openspace now since its going to be 125 montly...they gooing to charge us at least 140 or close to....ridiculous.

All that because of what?because of linden incompetance and incomprehension.
But after all linden,people wont be happy of it and at the end they will just leave...
And just pray that never any better game of this type come up because this day you will see most of your world falling down.

You gave us the basics,thats it.We pay for mostly each sim on this grind.We made the beauty of this game with our creativity.Without each of us second life is nothing at all and thats how you thanks us.

You're right.

KB says 31 prims, livechat says 31 but it is possible to double with Havok 4, but it hasn't been implemented.

I humbly stand corrected.