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Introducing T Linden. What would you do to improve Premium subscriptions?

Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
11-25-2008 14:25
From: Qie Niangao
For those who actually know how it works, there's an enormous, deal-breaking disincentive to being a Premium member. If a Premium member should be incapacitated or otherwise unable to attend to Second Life long enough to miss one of the times Billing screws up (which it does, eventually, to every Premium member), the consequences are not just losing all the land and everything on the land, but also losing the entire contents of the account's Inventory.

But that doesn't happen to Basic accounts.

So, any resident with anything they value in Inventory should immediately sell all Mainland and downgrade to Basic to prevent this from happening. You just never know when something might happen that will keep you away for a few months. And you certainly can't predict when LL Billing and your credit card company will quit playing nicely together.

It's really not in LL's interests to penalize their Premium accounts like this. Fix this first.
Agree wholeheartedly! This is an insane penalty to hang over the heads of Premium members!
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
11-25-2008 14:28
Here's one more thing that would be invaluable to content creators, and won't cost LL more than pennies per momth:

Mail the transaction reports for each registered account to the resident monthly, as well as the end of month report for cash-outs. It's way too easy to forget to download your transactions every 15 days, and if you wait more than a month, you lose the history of your sales and purchases. Cash-Out reports are at least held where you can always get at them, but it would be handy to mail out that statement as well.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Akko Yoshikawa
Registered User
Join date: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 18
Now is very good. Not change is better.
11-25-2008 14:29
From: Katt Linden
So let’s start with this. One of our products, the premium subscription, is ripe for improvement. It’s been neglected and there have been many conversations, forum threads, pJiras, surveys and plans to improve it, leading to some great ideas. It’s even been the topic of a Massively post by Tateru Nino who speculated about what we might do if we were going to improve the product or make smart business decisions. But what could make a premium subscription truly premium? What would make the experience a delight for you? Let us know in the forums.


There is important suggestion about a mainland.
Please do not ignore it. Like M and J.

Do you encourage a person having small land? 512sqm to 1024sqm?Is it free?
The mainland will regain popularity.You are bright.
Do you raise it by the premium subscription member costs?
However, a story is small. It is not settled.

Give your mainland a management tool same as PrivateIsland.
Please give the person who bought 1SIM it.
Give me a management tool same as Private Island.

When anyone buys 1SIM, Mainrand SIM become convenient and poweful.
This is a frontal attack to restore a mainland.
Did you understand whether it was how valuable idea?

It is strange that Linden Lab do not employ me to the president of LindenLab.
lol

There is not politics in the mainland.
The place that a feudal lord governs is necessary.
There should be the wilderness, too.
It is to be bad that there is only the wilderness.

Let's lower a support cost of LindenLab.
Let's receive a laird warmly. SL will go to the prosperity.

M Linden said that the number of premium subscription
had nothing to do with management the other day, and was it a lie again?

I do not want to hear the small story anymore.
Please make 512sqm 1024sqm by the raise.
The land which remained sells, and the mainland will make it in confusion again.

The mainland is good as now. A lot of vacant land is beautiful.
Very cheap land price.Very low lag. The depopulated area is very good.
It is the best situation. Any problem?

Please raise it by the premium member costs.
Raising of all is good. Please do not make only Openspace expensive.
It does not need the improvement that will raise all by 50%.
Please worsen circumstances like Openspace.
Let's make the maintenance cost of 512sqm be charged a fee.
Linden Lab worsened Openspace.
Please worsen all.It is fair.

SLZIN HLDGS Japan / Akko Yoshikawa
Persephone Loon
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 29
2L from the Underworld
11-25-2008 14:43
I rarely reply to forum posts because mostly they are just TL;DR and reading 50+ pages of unthreaded replies bores me to tears. (Suggestion -- try a LiveJournal-style commenting solution, so sidebar threads can easily be skipped by those not interested.)

I own mainland -- sim and a half level at present, across 3 sims, with the possibility of tiering up further. Been a premium member for about a year and a half too.

"Creds" now having been done, here are a few things I as a landowner and business owner would like:

1. More groups for premium members -- having only 25 reeks if you are a biz owner.

2. Allow premium member alts to share in the premium avatar's benefits, esp. if you raise group limits for premium members. I don't mind linking my alts to my main, but what I'd LOVE would be if there were some way I could "pool" their inventory, so that my biz alt could wear a notrans outfit from my main avi's inventory, since currently I have to buy stuff in triplicate, so I can dress my alts the way I do my main. (This might also cut down on asset server load, since fewer copies of stuff would be needed by the "pool".) Most folks in SL seem to use alts as the equivalent of multiple email addresses or IM IDs, parsed out for different purposes and/or audiences -- they are all pointing to the same person, who may well be reusing certain items in one or more "identities".

3. Some way to be "invisible" when in SL -- the current checkbox system doesn't hack it, since a "probe" message reveals you are online/offline, and then you need to deal with Avatar X being peeved that you unchecked your online status to him/her/it. Me, I don't need that drama, plus as a biz owner I'm socially pressured to accept friendships from customers/vendors with the threat of loss of business if I don't accept it or later drop the person from my friends list. So I have a bunch of "friends" I'd rather be invisible to -- including to their "probe" messages. (And I don't particularly want to be notified if they are online or not either, if I'm trying to be invisible.)

4. NO IM CAPPING!!!!! As a person trying to do business in SL, I get capped all the time, just because I logged off for a few hours just to get some shuteye. :P If LL wants to be taken seriously by the business community, they need to correct this. Just think of your own work experiences -- would you be happy if your email messages for work were capped and those important messages sent to you just went POOF and disappeared? No real-life business would tolerate that, yet those of us who do business in SL have to deal with this issue constantly. Please pull your socks up here.

5. Some kind of "loyalty" bonus -- a boost to the free tier bonus would work well here, say an extra free 512 added for every 3months/6months/year of paid premium membership. LiveJournal gives their paying members "loyalty userpics" and it seems to work well for them.

6. Some way to shut up group chats, like the ticky box for receiving group notices. Some groups I need to be in for business reasons but the members never shut up and repeatedly closing the group chat gets really old really quickly. For these groups I want a ticky-box gag option -- PLEASE!!!!!!

7. The ability to change land color, like from green to white and back -- so I don't have to waste prims to make my land look wintery for Yule. It can be as simple as choosing from LL-approved land texture files -- you have them already, why not allow premium members to use them?

I'll probably think of other things I'd like to see as a premium member, but those were the biggies.

~~ goes back to hiding under her rock ~~


Persephone Loon
Danball Tureaud
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
11-25-2008 14:47
From: Argent Stonecutter
Edit:

The one thing that I think would really help in-world would be to reduce the jumps in tier. I got an premium alt so I could tweak my tier in smaller jumps, but there's only so much you can do with that. The tier cost jumps are also pretty irregular and arbitrary. At the 2048 jump and the 16384 jump, the price per square meter actually increases:

512 $5
1024 $8 ($3 for the extra 512)
2048 $15 ($3.50 for each extra 512) ***
4096 $25 ($2.50 for each extra 512)
8192 $40 ($1.88 for each extra 512)
16384 $75 ($2.19 for each extra 512) ***
32768 $125 ($1.56 for each extra 512)
65535 $195 ($1.09 for each extra 512)

Please consider regularizing this, in a revenue-neutral way, with smaller jumps. It's just annoying and confusing the way it is now. But if you do... phase it in, perhaps having people switch to the new system when they change tier levels.


I don't believe they are considering it per 512m2, they are considering it per square meter, with that being said:
Price - size - price per m2
$5.00 - 512m2 - $0.009766
$8.00 - 1024m2 - $0.007813
$15.00 - 2048m2 - $0.007324
$25.00 - 4096m2 - $0.006104
$40.00 - 8192m2 - $0.004883
$75.00 - 16384m2 - $0.004578
$125.00 - 32768m2 - $0.003815
$195.00 - 65536m2 - $0.002975
Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
11-25-2008 14:48
From: Qie Niangao
For those who actually know how it works, there's an enormous, deal-breaking disincentive to being a Premium member. If a Premium member should be incapacitated or otherwise unable to attend to Second Life long enough to miss one of the times Billing screws up (which it does, eventually, to every Premium member), the consequences are not just losing all the land and everything on the land, but also losing the entire contents of the account's Inventory.

But that doesn't happen to Basic accounts.

So, any resident with anything they value in Inventory should immediately sell all Mainland and downgrade to Basic to prevent this from happening. You just never know when something might happen that will keep you away for a few months. And you certainly can't predict when LL Billing and your credit card company will quit playing nicely together.

It's really not in LL's interests to penalize their Premium accounts like this. Fix this first.
Agreed. This is a crazy oversight by Linden Lab. A free account with 40,000 items can linger on the server until the end of time but a premium account with 300 items will be deleted after 30 days of billing failure. Crazy.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 15:11
From: Danball Tureaud
I don't believe they are considering it per 512m2, they are considering it per square meter, with that being said:
Price - size - price per m2
$5.00 - 512m2 - $0.009766
$8.00 - 1024m2 - $0.007813
$15.00 - 2048m2 - $0.007324
$25.00 - 4096m2 - $0.006104
$40.00 - 8192m2 - $0.004883
$75.00 - 16384m2 - $0.004578
$125.00 - 32768m2 - $0.003815
$195.00 - 65536m2 - $0.002975

Doesn't change the fact that you're paying more for each additional square meter when you tier up to 2048 and 8192.

Price per each *extra* m2, at each level:

1024 - $0.005859
2048 - $0.006835 ***
4096 - $0.004883
8192 - $0.008545 ***
16384 - $.004883
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Ener Hax
disenfranchised $3K user
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 29
thank you Linden Labs
11-25-2008 15:36
well, just to be fair - Linden Labs sent an email (albeit 18 days later) regarding the OS price changes. so that was a nice step in improving customer service, thank you.

it had been a major gripe of ours that no email was ever sent to people like us that pay over $2000 USD a month to LL, especially considering it would make that number $2650+ with the change!

so we are adjusting better to that news now and are still grateful for the opportunity SL provides us in "freelancing". it's still the best metaverse out there and hopefully will continue to improve.

guess there is no growing without growing pains! *now if i could just grow another 3 inches, life would be good*

;)
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 15:39
From: Ener Hax
guess there is no growing without growing pains! *now if i could just grow another 3 inches, life would be good*
Got your sliders set to max already?
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
11-25-2008 16:10
From: Ceera Murakami
So am I. That "rambling" is called an Analogy.


Sorry Ceera,

I know it was an analogy. It just wasn't a very good analogy.

You did a better job of stating your opinion in the next post, sans the attempt to use hats, rstaraunts et all...

The point about Linden Labs (that I think a lot of folks out there don't seem to get) is that it is actually their Second Life, not ours. We are using their product, and they get to make the rules. Unless you intend to jump ship to the open sims (or leave altogether), Linden's well being and cooperation is needed for business as usual to continue.

If they want me to "loan" them $72.00 up front, then that is what they get (although for me, it's a bit more as I pay quarterly). It's not that much. I'm not that tight with such small change in my entertainment budget.
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I Imagined,
nicer than yesterday.
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
11-25-2008 16:21
From: it had been a major gripe of ours that no email was ever sent to people like us that pay over $2000 USD a month to LL, especially considering it would make that number $2650+ with the change![/QUOTE


I am continuously amazed by the amounts of real dollars people put into the virtual world. I budget $25.00 a month (including my premium fee :) ). I had a bit of land from my original account, and used some of it to buy and sell when land was a hot commodity. Still own a few parcels that I rent out at a little above cost (TY Elanthius).

At present, still living on the mainland. Renting a little piece of paradise on Triumphal.

Just recently, Karas Trust Group picked up it's first private island parcel. A fire sale 2048 with tier pre-payed into February. T Linden was quite surprised when I tricked him into flying out to "sea" there. Bumped his head running into the void sim. Not quite like mainland coast line. :rolleyes:
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 16:24
From: Jannae Karas

The point about Linden Labs (that I think a lot of folks out there don't seem to get) is that it is actually their Second Life, not ours.
That doesn't matter.

If people jump ship because they're tired of LL screwing them around, LL goes out of business.

So someone's reaction to LL's actions are entirely relevant.

Now you might make the point that this or that change won't be enough to produce enough pushback to make SL unprofitable, and you may be right, but now you're not arguing against the Ceera's point any more, you're arguing about how important it is.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
11-25-2008 16:34
From: Argent Stonecutter
That doesn't matter.

If people jump ship because they're tired of LL screwing them around, LL goes out of business.

So someone's reaction to LL's actions are entirely relevant.

Now you might make the point that this or that change won't be enough to produce enough pushback to make SL unprofitable, and you may be right, but now you're not arguing against the Ceera's point any more, you're arguing about how important it is.


From LL's point of view (corporate) I believe that they really don't care. They will screw you over, and if you leave, they count on a newbie or two taking your place. New accounts will conform to what ever new standards they develop, and they don't have to "grandfather" all the "old folks" who move on.

You would have to be blind not to have noticed LL's complete lack of customer service. That is a very telling indication of their over all business strategy.
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I Imagined,
nicer than yesterday.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 16:38
From: Jannae Karas
From LL's point of view (corporate) I believe that they really don't care. They will screw you over, and if you leave, they count on a newbie or two taking your place. New accounts will conform to what ever new standards they develop, and they don't have to "grandfather" all the "old folks" who move on.
You're still arguing "how much". You're saying Linden Labs is betting that "how much" is always going to be small, but even if they are that doesn't mean they're always going to be right.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
11-25-2008 16:43
From: Argent Stonecutter
You're still arguing "how much". You're saying Linden Labs is betting that "how much" is always going to be small, but even if they are that doesn't mean they're always going to be right.


It doesn't really matter if they are right. It only matters what they believe is right. That is the basis on which they will proceed.
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I Imagined,
nicer than yesterday.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 16:54
From: Jannae Karas
It doesn't really matter if they are right. It only matters what they believe is right. That is the basis on which they will proceed.
If I see someone walking towards the edge of a cliff, I don't say "well, they want to walk towards the edge of a cliff, so I won't mention that they may be making a mistake by doing so". Now they may look at me and think "I've got at least another three meters before it gets crumbly", and they may be right, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong in pointing it out.
_____________________
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Sim Myoo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 31
11-25-2008 16:55
From: Danielle Harrop
Why pretend our opinions matter here? Like you're really taking notes.

Just break it to us how we're about to be bent over, and if you could, a little KY wouldn't hurt. Just like rippin off a bandaid. Just post it in yer little bloggie, declare it as policy and get it over with so we can all get back to second life without the rumors and speculations and misquotes and everything else.


Just what I was thinking as I read all this. There working damage control before they break it off in our a**. Premium memberships should be the least of there worries. They need to fix the trust issue first. Do something good and people forget about it really fast. Do something bad to someone and they remember it for a long time. IMO
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
11-25-2008 17:08
From: Argent Stonecutter
If I see someone walking towards the edge of a cliff, I don't say "well, they want to walk towards the edge of a cliff, so I won't mention that they may be making a mistake by doing so". Now they may look at me and think "I've got at least another three meters before it gets crumbly", and they may be right, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong in pointing it out.


I live on the California North coast, and have lotsa' crumbly cliffs to walk near. So far so good....

Seriously, so many analogies tonight. OK I'll play.

The problem is that you are shouting a warning to someone who is deaf. Despite all good intentions, it is a wasted effort.

Anyway, I'm tired of this thread. The SL sun is setting, and it is a good SL where I'm at. In reality, my sense in talking with T is that nothing really is going to happen in the short term. If it does, I'll just have to deal with it.
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Taller Than
I Imagined,
nicer than yesterday.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 17:24
From: Jannae Karas
The problem is that you are shouting a warning to someone who is deaf. Despite all good intentions, it is a wasted effort.
You may be right. But then why were you in this thread?
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
11-25-2008 17:29
From: Macphisto Angelus
Some smart stuff


Totally OT:

Hi Mac!!!

/me waves like crazy
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Katt Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 256
11-25-2008 17:31
T Linden won't be able to keep watching the posts, I'll be shutting this thread down soon.

He has summarized your suggestions and is seriously looking at them. If there does come a time when we make changes to Premium accounts, we'll certainly take into account the many, many great ideas suggested here.

Thank you!!
Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
11-25-2008 17:41
Ibtl!
Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
11-25-2008 18:18
From: Katt Linden
If there does come a time when we make changes to Premium accounts, we'll certainly take into account the many, many great ideas suggested here.

Thank you!!
"If"? The guy was hired to maybe do his job? Welcome to Linden Lab.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
11-25-2008 18:48
His job is "Chief Product Officer", not "Chief Premium Officer".

If he decides that changing Premium is the right thing to do, that's one thing. If he decides that making changes elsewhere is the right thing to do, if he decides the problem isn't that there's something wrong with Premium, but that the problem's in Mainland in general, or in support, or something else, you think he should fiddle with Premium accounts as well just to show that he's "proactive"?

Personally, I'd rather see someone who thinks about what the right thing to do is, not someone who tosses an extra set of bonuses into a feature and then discover they can't afford it any more, like they did with OpenSpaces.
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Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
11-25-2008 19:02
No high paying executive position is created because of vague non-goals.
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