Introducing T Linden. What would you do to improve Premium subscriptions?

How to improve premium account benefits.......and basic at the same time :

Sell SL to a decent company......

Probably the quickest and best way............*giggles*

Umm. I was standing "less" than 4 meters from a poster on a wall talking with someone in a sim less than two days ago. The poster was ***clear*** and **complete** when I was throwing knives at it a few moments earlier, but was blurry when I turned back. It "is" true that there is a progressive load, but it is also true that the client/server system, perhaps just recently, has been using something similar to an "avatar impostor" effect on textures that are either not in your immediate field of view, or too far away for you to see detail anyway. I am sure this speeds "some" things up, a bit, but I am not so sure it really helps anything in the long run. Mind, it did "reload" the full texture faster, so maybe there is something in the client itself that is "progressively" loading. Also, if what you say was correct, it shouldn't be possible for an object to go grey again "after" you where already looking at it, just because you looked away from it. Nor, for that matter, for the client to lose ***all*** of the data on it, like it was doing 4-5 days ago, and only getting back (from lag issues) the data on where, and what size, the prims where. How do you lose "everything" about a prim by turning your back on it for 10 seconds?

Now, that the client side cache is complex and inefficient, may be true too. It still doesn't change the fact that you can't cram half a gig of data down the pipe to a player in 30-40 seconds. I stand by my statements on this. Some data "shouldn't need to be" resent, unless something changes drastically, yet "all of it", including sometimes different "versions" of the textures, appear to be "updated" every cycle, and the only thing "preventing" worse lag is that the client "can" use some cached texture data, if it has one, and its not being told, "You can't see this, so don't bother with the good one."

In any case, all I am saying is, there are serious issues with how this stuff is handled, and it gets worse with every sim you can see into, and every AV near enough to trigger a "what am I seeing" scan on the servers. Fixing it... isn't as trivial as some people seem to imagine.

For now.. Most, if not all, of the Nautilus openspace sims don't match LL's new definition for what an openspace is - they use too many prims and will need to be changed to the homestead product.

So what? They've got nothing but static prims on them, and they all use the same set of textures, so none of the things that made OpenSpaces a burden on the sims and core servers apply, so they don't cost Linden Labs any more than an OpenSpace.

Yes, this is a known client bug: the client does a lousy job of caching and discards textures too aggressively. It even discards textures you're looking at in some cases!

But this problem has nothing to do with any decisions made by the sim. All the sim does is (a) provide a list of prims and agents in the sim to the client, and (b) respond to client requests for additional details about the prims and agents. The client is completely responsible for the order that textures are downloaded.

The structure in the server that controls how the client is informed about prims could do with some improvement. Currently it does not take the position of the agent into consideration in deciding the order to send the initial information about prims. You can see this on the mini-map... prims large enough to appear on the mini map show up in random order... not in order of distance from the agent (which would help a LOT in speeding up initial rendering where nearby objects occlude distant ones).

so they call it a homestead space no problem for them there, it will still be the same as it is now. of course one worrying aspect is that they can use this as an example of what the intended use of homesteads were for in the future!!!

Lot of annoying things with teleportation in SL. This is imho, one of them. For example, Stargates **cannot**, as currently built, be deeded to the land/group, because doing so renders updates to them impossible, so having the "land owner" be the only one allowed to generate llTeleportAgent(), just isn't practical *at all*. Redoing gates so you can update them without that.. Well, that won't work either, since there would be no way to verify that the "owner" of the gate was running the update, especially with the temp on rez updaters, which wouldn't be around long enough to "assign them" to the group/land, so that they would have the same "owner".

Trying to update the gates automatically doesn't work either. In "theory", the new MONO system could almost support a simply emulation of a CPU, enough, that if some nut was crazy enough to do it, you could "run" code in it, thus making the "program" for the gate be update capable via simply sending each gate updated data. The problem being, this won't work anyway, since you can't generate notecards or other "permanent" data via script, so you can't "save" a copy of the code for the update (would make it a whole damn hell of a lot easier though, if you could, since some people drop out for months, then wonder why the gates stop working...).

No, the "teleport" needs to imho, be something that is "worn", to work right. Which means similar "permissions" to animation overrides, or anything else. A prim should simply send the scripted wearable the coordinates, via secure or otherwise, channel, then have the attachment generate the teleport. It wouldn't be that hard to have a client flag, or even a list, where you can either turn on/off notices that something wants to TP you, and ask if you want it to, or just add to your list "trusted" objects.

The thing I wish was possible as well though is, "llTeleportOverride". Lot of RP areas use hubs to "direct" people to the entry points, where the rules and such are. I wouldn't mind seeing some way for the owners of a sim to designate "allowed" alternate entry points, then allow an "override" to direct people to those places, especially across sim boundaries. Pain in the rear to have to TP from one base to the "entry" to another sim, 4 sims away from where you started, then "still" have to walk to your faction base, all because you can't "TP" directly there. Would be up to the land owner to decide what limits to place on it, and how to "protect" against people using the wrong alternates, without valid reasons. But, short of having a bot in every sim, whose job is to race off to where ever you need to be, then "offer teleport", its just a pain in the backside. ((Not to mention, if **breaks** the ability to use things like a stargate network for use inside any sort of sim, for the "precise" same reason.))

But, yeah. It makes no fracking sense to make this a "premium" function, if ever implemented.

Well, the whole stargate "business" seems pretty damn silly to me. 99% of what the stargate does has nothing to do with teleporting, and everything to do with special effects... and from keeping competing stargate networks from competing with your stargate network. Open-source the script that does the actual teleporting and deeding the single necessary prim to the group would be all that's necessary.

If you're afraid of open source, I can't help you.

No, having to wear something to teleport is just plain daft. Especially if you get as many competing networks as you have stargates, you'll have to walk around with a dozen HUDs, each of which has their own sekrit update script... forget it.

. . . and the "tips." It is unfortunate that these types of landlords exist, as they do in RL also. I am a relative noob that fell hook, line and sinker for SL and immediately saw business potential, both in world and for RL business. My partner and I were fortunate enough to purchase parcels in a private estate with great landlords. But then, we also grilled them to a fair-thee-well before making the purchase. As in real life, meeting and talking, even in a virtual world, can make all the difference in determining what "kind" of person with whom you are dealing . . . and yes, I know, even then there are some risks involved. We still own those parcels but are trying to sell only because we moved on to SIM ownership -- seeming now like an impossibility because of the new OS/Homestead changes.

In a recent interview, Saffia Widdershins of Prim Perfect noted that it is "community" that keeps people coming to a region/sim; and keeps renters, also. The "build and they will come" philosophy, as Saffia says, is not enough. That is why we have tried to build community and will strive to "screen" our tenants as best we can -- and even then there are no guarantees.

At least with Private Islands, OS, and the soon to be Homestead, you have controls at hand and don't necessarily need to "sell" land. In fact, we're only renting and hope that will be an attraction to some under the new policy as they won't be burdened with having to sell real estate in what is currently a lousy market with the pricing changes. And new regions can't just pop up sharing a border with your own -- or even a corner, for that matter.

Again, thanks for the education through your experience -- knowing of your experiences helps us to become better, more considerate landlords.

Peace!

Worrying to residents, or to LL? What if, God forbid, Nautilus City gets popular and more than 20 avatars stumble into one of those sims? All of a sudden, LL has an "abused" Homestead sim for all the world to see. Of course, there's not a real problem with that usage--as Argent says, they're all just static prims. (Except that they'll have avatars clomping around on those prims, possibly with scripted attachments--possibly even in seafaring vehicles! )

But if that usage is not a real problem, that too would be embarrassing at this point, right?

I'd bet my tier fee that those will all be full-primed, dedicated-core sims before January. Otherwise, future policy is constrained by some whimsical LDPW builds that will soon be forgotten, sadly like all the other Linden infrastructure on the Mainland.

..and once a year a free trip to san fran...and free pizza on tuesdays...and USB attachments to enhance our virtual loves...and...wait for it...

***SMELL-O-VISION*** (inspired by siggy r. one of the most creative people ever that LL has driving away in their consistent greed and stupidity)

You know the end result will be a bunch of fluff (newsletters and key-chains? wtf are you people thinking?) and this :

--->Premiums will be allowed to buy the new over priced Homestead Sims with out requiring a (less profitable for LL) Normal Sim for extra gouging pleasure! Because they care!

16 "homestead" sims @ 125 USD per server = 2000USD for Linden SLab (hey...lag cost money!)

4 "c5 normal" sims @ 295 USD per server = 1180USD for Linden Lab

I cant wait for these increased benefits!!1

Some Facts :

So far this month the grid has lost 1105 sims (refresh the stat page please as this is already days out of date).

Real Dollar Earnings are down in every class of income except the 10$ range.

LL haven't updated the sim hardware in what? Close to 2 years now? Where is all the money phil? In your bank no doubt.

The technology of Second Life is so simple that it is now being copied and reproduced at extremely lower prices and produced by very few people relative to the hundreds employed at the lab (I guess the lindens all work in billing and PR departments. hai Tom!).

----

An insight for you Tom.

T linden :
"It's more or less impossible to find delight in the topic of Open Spaces, Starfire.

/falls on sword."

It's very possible to make everyone happy with the OS rape. How about you offer buy back of the vaporware you sold half the grid? Hmm?
You get your resources back and the suckers get their down payment back. All is equal and fair. Yes? Instead you prefer to RIP US OFF at the cost of all respect. Well? Tap tap...anyone home?

I noticed I got the email yesterday explaining how you are handling the OS thing. How people dared to use the 3750 prims as allotted. How people dared to use the 100 avatar count as allotted. How dare those abusers! Getting the picture? Now all the people who don't bother to read the marketing and trite drivel that counts as LL communications on this blog will get the word. The damage is only beginning.

And one final piece of reality.

The sim Mooz is for sale. This is the most well known and popular race track and motorsport sim in SL. It's a c5 grandfathered sim at 195$ tier (though they may raise the tier any arbitrary amount at any time as the pattern shows). Contact me, Les White with offers (tumbleweeds blow by...).

You fail LL. Though your bank managers may not agree.

Increase Premium Benefits...give me break.

Last one out turn off the lights.

This hasn't happened yet. A subset of the technology (with crippled physics, no money system, maybe 1/3 of the scripting APIs, and severe scaling problems) has been reverse-engineered. Most of the hard parts of SL haven't even been attempted.

Did the focus of this thread shift? What happened to the discussion about "perq-ing up" Premium accounts?

And I agree with you . . . unfortunately, with the recent policy change re: Open Space / Homestead, LL has sort of blocked that potentiality since (as I know all to well because I own 3 OS, soon to be Homestead) those regions are really now cost prohibitive to most if not all residents, premium or not.

but your clarification did give me an idea to go along with the suggestions in this thread to allow premium accounts to own Homesteads without first having to purchase a full sim. And that is, leave the new Homestead pricing at $75/mo for premium accounts provided the usage meets the new agent / script criteria.

My deeper thought behind this is that the product as originally sold -- "intended" use debate aside -- offered 3750 prim (shame on LL for not being more specific and limiting agents and scripts from the start). 1/4 the allowance for 1/4 the price of a full SIM. With the new policy, 1/4 the prim allowance with agent and script limits is a devaluation of the product as it now costs 42% of what a full SIM costs. And not all of us are overloading our SIMs (at least as far we can tell with limited and flawed script time measurement tools).

I would gladly pay for a premium membership to keep the pricing on my soon to be "Homesteads" where it is now, or perhaps even at the $95 level come 1 January.

And my apologies for SHOUTING my response to you. Peace.

I think it is over and the thread is just waiting for a lock.

See, falling on a sword usually means that something really bad and really permanent happens to the fallee.

You seem like a decent frog, T, but I think it may be too early for senior execs at LL to be making jokes about openspace sims. It's just really not funny.

Best of luck with the newish position.

Worrying for residents I guess, I was thinking LL as being a 'Do as we say, not as we do' company now, I think M is that kind of CEO.

one could improve the contents of the inventory or offer contents
every month


on pourrais améliorer le contenu de l'inventaire ou offrir du contenu tous les mois

Actually, this won't stop them. They can use vendors, which doesn't require the item being set for sale.

To stop them, allow only premium members to transfer items to another resident. Make non-premium members receive-only.

(note: this is just a comment on the previous post - why it wouldn't work, and how it would have to be modified for it to work in the manner the poster intended.)

People would develop "affiliate vendors" that allowed non-premiums to sell products through vendors owned by premiums for a fee. These would be used for legitimate purposes often enough that it would not be possible to simply sanction the cut-out vendor owner.

This would be a really bad idea. You don't need to be premium to own an estate, you don't need to be premium to rent anywhere. There is far more estate land than there is mainland, plenty of non premiums contribute greatly to the economy.

* Increase the land benefit by premium account year.
* Free Upload Fees

Great Idea

I became a premium member to be able to buy land, but mainland being a free for all the beautiful plot I bought (1536 sq m) was soon between a barbed wire fence and a burning bus. My wife hates it and wants to move. When our year is up we'll probably drop premium and rent on an island. Want me to keep premium? Allow me to allocate my 512M to the island owner as part of my rent - LL keeps a premium account, I get cheaper rent, island owner pays LL a little less every month.

The ability to buy extra prims for my mainland plot would also be nice.

Backup of inventory, priority logins, more groups also get my vote.

(much of this adapted from pJIRA issue MISC-763)

Allow up to 5 "Basic" Alts to be Linked to a Main Premium Account so Premium features are available to these legitimate "paying alts." These Basic "Linked Alts" can have some sort of hidden flag for scripts and the world to differentiate them from Non Paying Basics. Linked Alts should be free - inclusive in the premium membership - or up to no more than US$1 (yes, that's ONE DOLLAR) each per month, which may be a nominal trade-off to make people think about creating Linked Alts rather than just maxxing them out unconditionally just because they can. The only way a Resident can tell is by the number of groups these "Linked Alts" are in, or by savvy scripts, or even display Linked Alts as Premium accounts in profiles..

Enhance build tools (i've some suggestions but haven't submitted anything yet) i.e. Create subtabs in for example Texture and add new parameters to subtabs only available to premiums: Move Glow, Shininess, Bumpmapping to special subtab; add Dynamic Reflection (allow DR to be a prim parameter rather than a global viewer setting); Allow Bumpmapping parameters (Repeats per Face/Meter, Rotation, and Default/Planar application) to be adjusted separate from the Texture; separate the Horizontal/Vertical aspect Ratio for Repeats per Meter for Textures VWR-2889 and Bumpmaps... Basics: Enhancements Viewable but Disabled (tease); Premium and Linked Alts: Enhancements Enabled.

Build Restriction: Partially Restrict "Contents" tab to Premium and Linked Alts only; do not allow Basics to add scripts to objects (this may cut down on "anonymous" grid-attacks).


Build Allowance: Allow Premium and Linked Alts ability to create and edit Mega and Micro prims and cap dimensions to 0.001 - 128.000 while Basics keep the current 0.010 and 10.000 limitation.


Group Limitations: Basic: 10; Premium and Linked Alts: 255 (a nice round 8-bit number ("FF".. but really, is anybody going to be in that many groups anyway?). Do not restrict Basics from forming groups, however..

Inventory Limitations: Basic: 1500 object cap - not counting the default Library; Premium and Linked Alts: No Limit.

Financial Limitations: Basic: L$50,000 max. ; Premium and Linked Alts: No Limit. Allow Basics to sell objects and access LindeX for buying only, but cap their wallets. LindeX "sell" available only to Premium and Linked Alts.

Login Annoyance: Basic: Every 10 -15 Logins advertise Premium Membership in login sequence, delay world rendering 5 seconds.
Premium and Linked Alts: No Login Annoyance.

Avatars: Basics: unchanged current Avatar; Premium and Linked Alts: Enhanced Avatar meshes/controls, relax current slider limitations, greatly increase Attachment points, and double HUD attachment points.

Enhance Land Bonus: Basics free 512 sq m for 60 days, perhaps in a separate new continent (to allow easier Linden tracking/maintenance) with a warning every X logins past 30 days to upgrade or lose the land (rezzed items will be returned to inventory; Premium 1024 sq m with no restrictions. Linked Alts - no land bonus (keep 'em honest )


Land Tier Granularity / Better Tier Pricing: After 1/4 sim, the pricing keeps many from expanding their borders. And after 1 full sim, the next tier is horrible (16 sq m past 1 full region = +US$100!). Want more customers? Reduce your fees! You tend to price everybody out and then claim you don't get enough money! The less people have to pay, the MORE people will buy! It really is a double whammy to buy VIRTUAL (Non-REAL) estate then have to pay enormous monthly fees on top of that! Increase the granularity of tiers and reduce them somewhat, then lather rinse repeat when adding to a full region holding rather than just slapping on US$100 > 1 full sim.

Please check out the pJIRA MISC-763 and it's linked issues, some people have other good ideas there as well (plus you'll get an idea as to what suggestions seem to strike a chord, such as the linked alts idea gets some nods and smiles there.)

*Free Texture upload

*Priority Logins

*increase 512 to 1024 sqm


Alex Ge