Feedback on the Mainland

There's a critical difference here. When an estate is abandoned, LL can simply remove the land from the grid and thus save the hardware and bandwidth needed to maintain it. This can't be done with mainland. The pattern of people getting fed up and moving on to less costly amusements is the same everywhere. It just looks different depending on the material impact the trend has on LL internally, and the tools the Lab has available to cope.

I own mainland and I like it. Other areas are probably horrible, but around my area there doesn't seem to be any horrific builds or anything else. Only thing that bothers me is zoning. If someone has been operating a business on the mainland for a while and then Linden decides that it's residential what happens then? That would suck. I think no zoning just ban adfarms. They're 16x16 chunks of land that have no purpose. Just don't allow chopping land in to less then 512. That would stop the BS.

My toys are 12,000 US dollars worth of mainland, 2/3 of which was purchased after assurances that ad farms would no longer be tolerated. Once it turns into cheap, unzoned crap compared to the new mainland with covenants, walking away from it and playing elsewhere is going to be quite the pricey tantrum.

I own about 1/3rd of a sim on the Korean continent. It's sorta popular and we come close to filling it (no campers!) fairly often. It's on the eastern side of the continent so it's on a class 4 host which means it also gets pretty sluggish, pretty often.

Any chance you'll consider offering a plan that lets mainland people get their sim moved to the newer hardware? Not looking for any extra privs, any obligation on LLs part if I move to a different region, anything at all from my neighbors - just a pure pay-some-cash, sim-gets-moved, end-of-story sorta deal.

Can someone please tell me what function roads provide. As I have seen very few cars in SL, I don't really understand why there are roads. I had no idea they could build a road through your land.........much like real life!

Avion with the quality of your builds I don't think you'll need to take the tantrum route or see much of a devaluation other than that which we're already seeing in general.

If you want to stop land extortion then you need to define land extortion. I will do this for you now:

1) Define the ST (Simple Total) of a parcel owned by John Doe as paid price plus the accumulated tier-fraction payed for this parcel by John Doe - updated every time the tier is payed.

2) Define land extortion as a sell order for a 16sqm parcel with a price that exceeds its current ST by more than 20%. For 32sqm land extortion starts at 30% profit. Other parcel sizes may be sold with unrestricted profit.

3) Find the places to enforce these restrictions. A) inside the software that manages sales (easy) AND B) inside the TOS that states offering land at extortionate prices outside the LL-controlled market is against the TOS (not easy to enforce).

Okay, I've read all the posts so far today, some really good points being made which is great!

It's 2am here now so I'm going to head out but I'll catch up on all the new posts tomorrow and then have a stab at answering the main points.

After reading and thinking about it. I have very mixed feelings for many of my friends and also for myself. When I joined SL back in Beta and then quickly put out my lifetime membership for my 4096 meters and LL kept saying "Your world, Your Imagination." As a constant owner of some Mainland and also owner of some of the oldest land in SL I am starting to think the following:

The work and time I have put into the Mainland as well as friends of mine may be put to the test of your business is in a Residential sim now, so you have to get rid of it. Or your Home and or Business is in a Residential/Commercial Sim and you must get rid of one or the other.

That any advertisement of your business such as said store name on the front of your store may have to be removed because you are in a no advertisement area.

I am now starting to hear the words "Our World, You can no longer use your Imagination." echo in my head.

I do a very good business through renting to others and I may soon see that all go down the drain.

Yes I may be overreacting in my head, but who is to say that others are not thinking this also?

I wouldn't have purchased my lifetime account if I didn't believe in SL back then. Now more and more, I am questioning if I didn't just throw money down the drain because you have a new CO who also thinks that most of us in SL are not normal individuals. I came to SL for the creativity, the joy of building and maybe making a friend or two. But now is this just the sign of the end of all that or another way to get more money for privately owned sims?

I would just like you to really think of your customers who have been very loyal and stayed with you and really think about the direction, you want to go with this.

Soren

That's REALLY nice of you to say, Ciaran, and very welcomed to hear on a day when I'm not in such a great mood.

I'm just trying to show from that posting that this isn't simply a game that we can walk away from any time we want. The Lindens shouldn't be able to turn the world and the economy upside down any time they wish, on the idea that "this is just a game."

I'm feeling betrayed today. I bought into the promises the Lindens made on February 13 with the ad farm policy. They made a new commitment to their customers, showed that they supported mainland land owners, and I had faith in them. Today, we learn that there are going to be new classes of mainland. And guess what, people? If you own any land now, you are in the lowest class.

--Avion Raymaker

But Avion, the only news I'm hearing today is that there is zoned mainland coming. Jack has not said that they will ignore ad farms on existing Mainland. Most of your land is protected from adfarms because you "bought the view" already. Your land is also themed, which puts it in a different class than most mainland. And I can live on one of your sims for a heck of a lot less than I would should I decide to get into a bidding war for this new class of mainland.

Cheer up, old pal!

Thanks very much, Raymond.

I started out as cautiously optimistic on this, but really hit the ceiling after the owner of the objects shown in this link

http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/882

posted a cheesy, gushing thank you for this new mainland proposal. (Thank you, Sarah Nerd, for the expos'e.)

These asses are already figuring out how to exploit the new policy before it's even in place.

I still love this virtual world, and I trust that Jack will take our freak-outs seriously and try to reach a solution that will make things better without leaving all of us existing owners behind.

--Avion

The Advertisers Guild? They don't have =any= advertising in SL Search, nor do you advertise anything in SL Search under your profile classifieds, nor do other people like you who spoil it for everyone else. The only thing I've seen your ugly towers advertise is your own stuff!

"We're thrilled that we'll have a venue for legitimate advertising..." Uh, does that mean you currently are an illegitimate advertiser!?

There are legitimate ways in SL to advertise, it's called the Classifieds. You pay a little bit of money and your advertisement shows up in search.

Although your Guild currently does not sell 16sqm plots for 10000 $L anymore, they used to and regardless, they still ruin the view.

I am a media buyer in RL, which means I buy ad space for people who want to advertise. What I don't get is why someone would pay to advertise in low traffic parcels in SL.

Is there not a way for Gov Linden to corral the ad space around info hubs for example and sell it? Think about it. Desirable ad space for rent would equal revenue to LL. Perhaps that revenue could be used to lower tier fees, which just might increase the premium account holder total, which in turn would also increase revenue to LL. AND, if it decreased mindless ad farming, would that not be a win - win for everyone.

Let me say I am not an ad farm fan. But, lets look at this from a business perspective. Obviously these people want to pay to advertise. Why o why would they want to advertise next to my extremely low traffic parcel is beyond me, but regardless... LL Give those people who want to advertise a place to do so. A place that actually gets seen by residents, one that you can generate revenue from. Maybe also consider limiting ad content to in-world goods and services. Use some of that Mole creativity to create cool ad space in the welcome areas and see what happens. Big business sim folks, why can't you too be ad space sellers. Why not make the ad space fit your standards and tastes. In a way, you would be promoting the business community you are a part of. In a way you would be saying, "if you like my build, or goods, or services, etc then may I suggest these other fine things"....

SL is huge, filled with many creative people selling awesome things. They deserve some ad space, and I welcome it in info-hubs and malls, or other commercial environments. Ad farms for the sake of ad farms does not make good business sense and deters residents from buying land. LL at least consider the idea, run it through your statistical software and see what happens.

And for all you Ad Farmers out there, what is your return on investment? Are your signs really generating sales?

belch

Dunno if this is 'mainland' or 'gteam' but my neighbors in the sim next door have been plagued by a club that keeps their region nearly-full 24/7. Been like this for over a year now. This club is on about 8k of land.

Any comments on mainland resource usage, Jack? The club is not full of campers/trafficbots but it seems horribly unfair that somebody who owns 1/8th of the region can use 90% of the sim resources all day, every day.

My neighbor has at least 16k of land in the region and tells me she has AR'ed the club a number of times..

Well the Lindens are finally admitting they have MAJOR issues with their mainland and how they manage it.

Not only are they realizing that there is a simple lack of oversight (something they will never be able to properly do given the size and number of parcels they would need to oversee IMHO), but also growing cynicism and frustration on the behalf of mainland owners who buy their dream lot one day and the next day find their view is destroyed by an ad farm and their land is now worth nothing.

The answer is, and will always be, in more support for the private estates and the estate owners that work hard to ensure a consistent and fair experience for their land owners. Unfortunately the Lindens still haven’t grasped that fact and instead are working to create their own zoned and covenanted estates within the mainland. This is yet another swipe at the private estate owners that have supported SL though the payment of thousands of dollars in private island tiers each month.

The Lindens policies are clear. They wish to put all estate owners out of business by first destabilizing the land market by wildly adjusting sim costs, flooding the market with cheap mainland, sowing seeds of uncertainty regarding private island tier increases, turning deaf ears to reported problems, and now attempting to provide similar private estate experiences coupled with lower mainland tiers and purchase prices. Will they succeed? Time will tell.

I think it could be entirely reasonably ruled that ads may only be placed as part of a larger build. Many builds, such as NCI, some clubs, and some RP areas use this model - and sure enough, they sell ads - because they generate their own traffic, which is higher than most randomly placed ads can offer. Placing an ad elsewhere is either really just a waste of time, or poaching traffic.

The "split sim resources" issue is a HUGE one which requires addressing at every level within the system. The mainland avatar limit is still so low that, if avatars were "fair shared", you would need to own more than 2048sqm to be allowed to take _your own_ avatar onto your land.

Awhile back I use to live on mainlands and did leave for the very main reason that it was just a mess out there. This announcement is very great and hope really that some good changes will happen. Perhaps I may go back and try it again.

One question I have, will the new mainland come in different terrain themes and/or will mainland sim owners have estate tool control?

Wading through all of these, I still haven't seen anything where LL has said anything -concrete-.

For all I know, it's just an excercise in venting.

Advertising Guild sure sounds like they already have a deal going, forget anything going on in this thread.

So, who knows... I'm still waiting.

Sounds great

Zoning.

Watching and dealing with ad farms.

Better care taken to look after the land.

Better support.


Sounds expensive?

Would mainland tiers increase?

Fantastically sensible comment! One of the most sensible I've read so far.

I hate to say it but my patience has been growing very thin indeed on this issue, sucking a good deal of the pleasure still to be had from SL. More and more I see almost no reason left to hold land in the present climate, and am very concerned that the announced approach will simply serve as the tipping point that seems to have been looming for some time now.

I definitely share you feelings. To me, those ad farms are blight, and there is no way around it. No sugar coating, no nothing.

I said earlier in this thread I would not mind advertising within some limits. I still do. But the classic ad farm? If they continue, then mainland will not be what it once was, nor what it could be.



Which, at this stage of the game, would be like signing a death warrant for the mainland. Would sure make it easier to zone, though. :-/

Mari

I definitely approve! And as a fairly new member of SL society with a higher tier cost who doesn't own an island, my property is too valuable to ME for advertisers and opportunists to give me problems.

Ad Farms - cringe!

I don't know if you're aware that businesses tend to look down on tier parcel and homeowners like we're worthless. I assume because they feel their bigshot attempt at business is more important than the next guy and their land. I haven't been around long but I've experienced this first hand - and was told it could still be worse!

Also another thing you can look into are locals with images of explicit porn and sadomasochism residing literally on the border of PG regions. There are two examples of this near my home, and it would be hard to believe these are isolated incidents. I've ARed them but nothing's been done and the parcel touching the glass shop with the porno photos is still unsold - who looking for PG content would want to reside with those pictures in your face? Well, maybe if they were all facing the other way LOL.

I don't think there's a Linden road anywhere near me. It's a shame more hasnt been done with paving roads and making Linden owned hangouts like you have in Grignano and Miramare and thereabouts. Was that the master plan?

Last but not least, there should be some sort of modification made for banlines. I mean why must one lose a vehicle to them while crossing a region? That's a bit much, and one cant always re-rez the vehicle where they fall. This really discourages exploration of any kind. Not everyone is looking to sneak into someone's house, but if I want to go from point A to point B on the map, I shouldnt have slam into ugly tape every other minute.

Unless it's built on reclaimed (read: abandoned) land, they can't. Most Linden roads have been built on sections of land in mainland sims that have been classed as "maintenance" plots belonging to Governor Linden and most have been clearly "road shaped" so anyone looking at them ought to be able to infer that a "road" would eventually be built there, once the Lindens got around to it.

Sort of like how newer mainland (and by that I mean mainland that's been around for "only" a year or less) might eventually show up on the "SLURL" maps someday real soon now.

I hope this paragraph doesn't mean you plan to work with representatives of the "Advertisers Guild". They are not a guild of advertisers--they are a group of land extortionists hoping for a way of going legitimate. Before LL's initial set of rules on Land Extortion, one of the Adertisers Guild founders priced everyone of his 16m2 plots at 10,000L$. After the new policy went into effect, that same person just switched his plots to having a URL in the description telling you how you could make an "land swap" to get rid of his ad at the expense of inflicting in on your neighbors.

http://tinyurl.com/5zvcny

Try working with the people who own land surrounding these ad towers. Work with the victims; not the criminals.