Solution to LL Gambling Ban

LL is the one converting LL into $ more then anyone. That is where the real "writing on the wall is."

The L is fictional. LL says it has no real value. Then how is it they are able to gain a $ value from it? The L$ is NOT a currency---creating a real currency is illegal. it is only a virtual currency.

LL should be more concerned with fighting for freedom to do non-harmful, virtual activities in this imaginary world.

More Secondary markets for the L$ will appear. Let them and those who use them, be the ones to face "jail."

The whole idea of banning a non-harmful, virtual activity is absurd, whether it be virtual casinos, virtual banks or virtual stock exchanges. Its fictional. It's LL that needs to ban there own conversion of L$ into real dollars.

People can still pay for things in SL with real money, indirectly, by buying lindens, or using paypal to pay a seller, but they can't 'gamble' with real money--that is illegal. LL can still make money by people buying L$, it's the conversion back to dollars that LL should not be doing, whether it's for residents or themselves. If secondary markets develop widely to do that, then that is their risk and the risk of those who use them.

But to say I can't build a pretend casino (not that i want to) and have people pretending they are gambling, is like legislating people's non-harmful imagination is just like admitting, ther L$ really is a real currency----therefore illegal anyway.

There is no better answer. Regardless of who says it, that was precisely the very best answer that can be given for the general case of whether gambling in Second Life was rigged.


.

I'm just guessing here, but I think that LL is better able to judge their potential liability than you are.

Reading the responses to my provocative post, I may have offended some. I wanted to stimulate discussion about what I saw as a conflict of opinion from LL.

I meant no disrespect to the variety of clothing, hair, and furniture (et al) designers. I am one of the "great unwashed" who buy more L$ than I sell L$. Much of those L$ goes to my favorite designers to keep me in prim hair and cute outfits.

If you are one of the aforementioned designers and were offended by my comment, I apologize.

While I am not taking a position whether SL casinos were rigged or not, the fact that there was no regulating authority to ensure they are on the up and up made me avoid them.

In RL casinos, there is a gaming authority, e.g., Las Vegas, Atlantic City, etc., that inspects and regulates the operation of the games and regulates those allowed to have a gaming license. In that case, one can be reasonably assured that the game is theoretically fair.

In online (but physically located offshore) and SL casinos, there is no or unknown regulating authority. If the games are legitimate, there is no authority to say "yes they are".

/327/08/178429/1.html - Discussion on making a script setting payout odds by owner and how secret cuts and be done if desired
/54/68/160014/1.html - Here is the advice on how to rig a machine
/327/a2/164135/1.html - winner not being paid
/111/0e/182547/1.html - slot that never won
/327/6b/159255/1.html - Winner not being paid
/327/75/162007/1.html - Winner not being paid

From a private message to me
....whole sandbox with a huge bunch of gambling machines which where put there by other user and those machines where only taking money of people who clicked on them.

Im sorry Jannae, but you are misunderstanding my post, I asked why would they do that, not why shouldnt they.

Can you prove to me that the games weren't rigged? I know I can't prove to you that they were.

Originally Posted by Jannae Karas
Because they don't want to lose everything and go to jail.




Sorry Opus. You are right when I re-read the post.

...


that is flat out wrong.. read the TOS, and read the rules.

Right! But it doesn't matter now does it...it's part of the history book, it was when it was OUR WORLD..OUR IMAGINATION!

But for the record..when i see "SL games was rigged" Makes my avitar blood boil.

To me that means the games made the players loose, and the house winners.

Do you REALIZE...the last winner of my games i had out, played my brand new slot, just rezzed. 250$L and walked away with 100,000$L? If the games was rigged. It would have been the other way around..where the player put in 100K and walked away with 250$L after cash out. To say the games that was available to us as owners, wa a cheap shot.
The games cost money to lay out. The jackpots paid was cost money..usually from us owners own pockets. Rigged? I would like to hear a better explanation other than a cheap shot at how they was put together..but again..remember...we talking from a historical point of view now.

You cannot prove a negative. The onus falls on the person making the accusation to prove their point. Whoever made the accusation that the games were rigged must put up or shut up.

Sex is next.

Since the L$ is now real money

And

PayPal + Sex = NO NO

Then

The writing is on the wall. We know who pulls LL's strings now. The L$ HAS become real, it is no longer our world our imagination, the motto needs to be changed (I have some suggestions).

I'm only sorry I wasn't vocal when others before were GOMed. I would cite a famous german poem but it's been cited enough and I'm just as guilty.

Say goodbye to escorts and cam shows and stripper clubs and snap on toys ... ok say good bye to any of the forementioned that are not FREE. no I'm not into any of that sex stuff but many were not into simulated games of chance and they didn't care. People only care about thier own particular interests and it's easy to pick off one group at a time when no one supports each other.

L$ will be divorced from sex and sex will be free and all those whose interest in sex and L$ or have invested in it will be left holding the bag. LL does not care about it's residents nor it's groups and as an idividual cares NOTHING. LL only cares about LL.

I understand the changes, I disagree with the execution of the changes. LL doesn't have any respect for it's own community otherwise LL would be more graceful in how it chose to grow up.


I give it less then a year.

Jimminy Crickets, Chilly!!

Do you just CTRL-C, CTRL-V in all the forums???

Yep....with no follow up comments !...Guess life was slow that day.

And um.. who would operate casinos if they couldnt make money at it?

The argument of "this commodity" has no value just won't fool the governments anymore, the only solution is to convince the governmetns that 3dworlds is web2.0, in other words if you hit over a scam website you can't blame the ISP, you blame the owner of the website. Just like with late 90's internet, the "wild west" is over, before the slow governments come the conclusion that licensed casinos can operate in 3dworlds just like on the web we'll just have to wait (afew years or so), right now they think of 3dworlds as countries that posseses a threat to national security (just like explained by socalled intelligence analyst at a austrialian newspaper), the governments will definitely not grow up from this childlish illness, we have to give them time to learn from own mistakes.

They'd make L$ which they can then spend in-game.

If they had more L$ than they knew what do do with, they can have their games of chance actually pay out once in a while or pump money into the sploder at an adjacent dance club or buy Ginko bank bonds, etc.

first off as a "phase out" period. When they removed casino's from search did you really not see this coming? As far as the comment about "other company's making hand over fist", most of these places that own sims and such, myself being one of them. after expenses we ain't really pulling in that much. I can't really speak for everyone but from my own experience thats the case. Also, you really think casino's weren't making more then us sellers? They were prolly making double hand over fist. its done, its over, find something else to do in sl or play online casino games.

How does the gambling in Second Life relate toplaces like Hollywoodpoker.com where you can chose to gamble with real money or play money and I've never heard anyone there say that the credit card companies aren't making good on debt incurred.

It is now US law that US credit card companies/banks cannot make payments to online gambling providers.

So how is this a solution?

Try posting a vote. I wager that you'll find that the vast majority prefer to be able to convert $L. Oops, my wager would be a violation!

OK, I'm posting hearsay here, but i have a friend who does a lot of online poker, and when I asked he says that most sites stopped allowing credit card payments directly, and use other means for account payments. He says he already has money in and tends to win so it's not a problem for him.

I suspect that there are sites that the credit card companies haven't stopped paying yet, for whatever reason -- but they're taking a business risk, and there are non-US credit card companies, and other ways sites can avoid the law. Note that the law says that banking and credit companies can't make payments to "illegal internet gambling", but didn't define what "illegal internet gambling" is. So there's still a big gray area. LL is simply following their legal department's advice -- and perhaps the advice of the credit companies -- and NOT taking the business risk because they don't have to. Sites like hollywoodpoker.com don't HAVE another business, so they take the risk.

This subject has been beaten to death.

Better solution:

Stop trying to reinstate unregulated gambling in SL, and buy yourself a plane tocket to Las Vegas, Monte Carlo, a US Indian Reservation, or any other real-world place that allows legal, regulated casinos, and go lose your money there. (Or win, if you are VERY lucky...)