How many get insulted when playing an alt of a different gender?

Yes, but they role-play their businesses. I certainly hope that's what all these "escorts" do ...

LOL, yeah let's hope the Escorts realize the difference between 1st Life and Second Life

As far as the business owners...I'm talking about the ones who are always "OOC" (Out Of Character) and pay for SL and thier monthly fees with USD earned in the game by selling, for example Pictures and frames, or pre-fab houses.

My char definitely does RP. In the actual "serious/hard-core" Role Playing Community, if you play OOC, then it's like stepping out of character in a movie, and you are not Role Playing. That's where the whole "STAY IN CHARACTER!" thing comes from, when you see Notecards for some areas

I DEFINITELY don't tell people that Second Life is any genre of "game" though. It's an open-ended virtual world. There's no ending, no "score" to get...you choose however you want to use it.

You can use it as a PR tool, for business meetings and press conferences, for real-world classes via the internet (like how some schools use it to teach Special Ed. students social skills)...there's so much potential for SL as an application, instead of just a "game", and it has been already used as such, and proven to be MORE than a game. Therefore, games lie within Second Life, but Second Life is an application, not a game.

Grand Theft Auto is a game, EverQuest and World Of WarCraft are games. Could be just a Jester'z opinion , but here's some YouTube clips of what I mean:

Unveiling The Scion XB, via SL

IBM Alumni Network's "Virtual Block Party"

Text 100 Explains Using SL for Public Relations

WIRED Magazine's Editor In Chief Pitches His New Book

The last one goes into roleplay when he starts "book-signing", lol

EDIT- I'm gettin' way off-topic, wasn't this thread about "Gender-Banding"?

I am a guy, married, and I play female AV's almost all the time. I did make a male AV, but I made him look like Chunk from Goonies for fun.
The reasons I play a female av are simple:
No matter where I am, I have to see my avatar, might as well have something nice to look at.
Women have better clothing options, I tend to play a goth/industrial av.
I have had a few guy's chat me up, but I let them know I am a guy fast and they never seem to get mad.
I recently added "I am a guy" to my profile notes just to help this.
My wife knows I play a female AV, hell 1/2 of my av's clothes are modeled after her clothes.
As a side benefit, chicks get more free stuff...

game n. 1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime

Fits it for me, Xio. Just because its a different class and style of game..

But back on topic!

How many of your altgender alts engage in cyber?

I have of yet seen anything that makes me wince in SL...I dont understand the problem others have...?

This is a pretend world...whats the f'ing problem?

A Bratz av made me wince. But then I feel they are corrupting our youth in rl already - and don't know a single adult who would make that kind of av. Not a kid av, but a Bratz doll.

From the time I took my first few faltering steps on Orientation Island I realised I had an identity and existence distinct from my real-lifer (whom I call my faciilitator). Whatever our similarities or differences, they agree that I am not them, we have a kind of symbiotic cyber existence.

Apart from country and region, I tend not to give away any info about my facilitator(s), though I rely on them for some general RL facts and observations. I take other avatars at face value and don't think too much about the RL-ers behind them.

A dishy young male avatar could be an accurate representation of its RL-er, or the RL-er could be a fat, old, ugly man. It could be a pretty young woman, a gay man or even be operated by more than one RL-er. I heard about one white man who has a black man avatar and I expect the same happens the other way round.

I came across another prejudice today while on a naturist beach. Some guy was having a go at a little bright pink gnome-like man because he was spoiling the scene by being unrealistic!

The exact nature of the RL/Avatar interface is probably an interesting psychological study, ranging from those who seek to represent themselves exactly both visually and verbally to those who create a cartoon friend detached from themselves, a bit like a child's imaginay friend.

It's an imaginary world!

I'm a newbie here, but it seems to me that if you can't handle dealing with other people's imaginary lives, maybe you don't belong here. Or you at least need to ask before commiting any acts you might regret.

I can understand the "ick" factor. As a straight guy, I can imagine getting the hots for someone and being a bit shocked to find out the someone behind that someone is different than I'd imagined. But that's my problem, not his/hers/shis/hems/whatever. It's only a little different from finding that the sweet lusciously comfy lady I've been courting is RL Callista Flockheart -- oh no!

Frankly, after creating my av that looks and acts just like me, I wondered if maybe I'm the silly one. Paucity of imagination, at least.

Cheers
Jeff

I think the TRUE point of Jonas's threads, and the One point that Everyone seems to Miss is, In being something OTHER than what you are, ARE you experiencing, or Have you experienced a Form of Intolerance that you have Never experienced Before?

A Male Playing a Female for Example, Have you experienced the Sexism that is an Every day Part of a Womans Life?, and If So,, Did it give you New Consciousness, or Understanding?

In RL i have experienced Prejudice because of my Gender (Woman), My Race (Black) My Nationality, both Past (French) and Present (Canadian), My Religion, My Sexual Orientation, My Sexual Practices, My Intelligence Level, And my Age. I've been treated to Some similar treatment in SL, But i have to say, to a MUCH smaller degree. What would be REALLY interesting to Know is, Since Many of you have come into SL to experience Lives, and perspectives Other than the ones you have in RL, ARE you also experiencing the Downside, and If so, How is it affecting your perspective on matters of Tolerance and Equality when you hear of them in RL?

If you are for example, White, but for some time, have been playing (Or living as) Black in SL, Have you been Called a N****r, and if so, How did it make you Feel? Did you feel Some of the Outrage Blacks in RL feel at having the same Epithet directed at them?

This aspect of SL, The Ability to Walk a mile in other peoples shoes, Has the potential to be a Real eye opening experience for Some. I think Jonas's questions have some real Value.

Angel.

Wholeheartedly agree Angel. I've said elsewhere that SL is as liberating as it is educational.
My female alt has certainly fallen prey to advances, lewd and otherwise, in some unexpected sites and that has opened my eyes to what real females have to put up with.
On a plus note though, portraying a pretty girl, I get a lot more attention! If I tire of this I change back to my original. Therein lies a paradox. Cute/pretty attracts attention, probably too much and RL cute/pretty become targets even if they want a quiet life. Conversely, er, un-cute/pretty doesn't attract attention as easily and results in isolation and loneliness. In SL some avatars are just so plain hideous I don't consider talking to them!

Cannot comment on the race situation. I've read another thread on that topic. I'm not tempted to change race partly I convince myself because I might be constantly approached by people whose RL culture, beliefs, terminology even are out of my depths. Also I suppose, to avoid the situation you describe with race hatred. I like to think I'm not racist but having admitted why I don't change race I wonder if I've just proved myself a racist?

The situation with religion? Well, that doesn't show neccessarily on the avatar. In the UK at the moment we have a s**tsorm with whether employees should be able to wear religious artefacts and symbols. I think the situation both RL and SL are the same here. Publicise your religion to strangers and you face an argument more often than praise. By not publicising you would only get into an argument if you start or join one. Politics the same.
There wa a lovely brass plaque in one of my local RL pubs a while back; "Bishops are kindly requested not to discuss Politics in the Bar".

So to answer your question Angel and the OP? Yes, my eyes have been opened. It's been and is continuing to be an earth-shattering experience for me and I'm meeting prejudice, bigotry and phobia that I was fairly ignorant of before.
End on a plus note: meeting a lot of wonderful people both here and in-world .. I'm addicted!

Re the prejudice and harrassment - I, Conifer, can handle anything anyone throws at me, probably better than my RL facilitator can! In SL I fear nobody and I fear nothing!

I live my Second Life to the full, I jump at every opprtunity and tire myself out dancing, building things, looking for land etc. while my facilitator justs sits at their computer keyboard making suggestions and prompting me. Who's the one that's in charge, I ask? ........MEEEEEE!

Thank you Bilbo and Angelique.

Actually I think you were adjectived but I could be wrong.

The one thing that really sucks about having a female alt is that sooner or later there is always going to be some idiot that hits on you. Sometimes it borders on flattering, but usually it's just gross and too much to handle. I think that this is because I'm a heterosexual.

Well maybe I shouldn't be dressing like a ho.

I also wonder how many people have reverted to a basic avatar and gone round pretending to be 'clever' newbies - "look, I can make a cube - bet you can't do that" sort of thing.

NO, I haven't done this myself, though the idea crossed my mind.

I think admitting you don't know enough about another Race, and it's Issues to effectively Impersonate one of them Doesn't make you a Racist, I think a Racist would Firmly believe that they knew All the Important things about other races, and there is nothing left anyone can teach them. If you avoid Playing other Races in order to avoid the persecution that some of them (Us) feel then you are recognizing that they are Not always treated Justly, and that is ALSO something a Racist would never admit. But, as an experience, being told "Your kind ain't welcome in these parts" is something that has to be Felt to be Fully Understood. SL gives people that rather Dark educational opportunity. You don't even have to Mimic a Real Racial difference though, Dress up, and Hang with the Furries for a while, Develope a Little sympathy, and some friendships, Then go travelling abroad in SL with a Few of them, and see what they have to deal with.

I can already see your eyes have been Opened to some of the gender Issues. In SL, Just as in RL, a Woman Cannot make herself Beautiful, or dress in a Fashion she finds attractive without someone Automaticly assuming she's some kind of Floozie out on the Make. I've also been places where my ability to gain, and hold positions within a Given Community were granted, or Denied based Not upon my skills, abilities or experiences, but on my Gender alone. When that Happens to you, A Male Playing a Woman, the REAL Injustice of our position hits home.
I feel i have to add something here though, In SL, i have faced FAR less of these various prejudices than i have in RL, despite my Avie being a Good representation of what i look like in RL [Except for the Digital Boob Job,, Hey, SL IS a Fantasy worls after all. ] Outright prejudice is less Common, but still, there are different ways people are treated based upon How they appear or act.

I Repeat, SL IS an excellent way to Walk a Mile in someone elses shoes.

Angel.

Technically, "racism" is the doctrine that the human species can be meaningfully divided into "races", which is generally considered unsound by modern ethnologists.

There is only one race in RL, the human race. I concede that furries can be considered to be racially different, or more likely different species.

Skin colour and other "racial" features count for little in defining who you are. You can find all sorts of variations in a complete continuum.

ARRRRGH!!!!

Seriously AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGH!!!!

Are you only capable of posting messages about other people's threads and how you disapprove of them!!!?!???!!! You have not posted a single message on this board in months that was not you telling people this is not the place for their thread.

IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS TARDIS. YOU ARE NOT A MODERATOR. YOU MAY WANT TO BE AND THINK THAT SUCKING UP LIKE THIS WILL GET YOU A FOOT IN THE DOOR, BUT YOU ARE NOT AND THAT'S THAT!!

Seriously, since you only use this board to tell people you disapprove of their threads, why are you so concerned about it?

There are in fact 4 distinct races identified by anthropologists. Within each race, there are regional variations.

There is one species.

In the same way that there are many breeds of dog, they are still all dogs.

The question is, why we use the term "race" - do we actually believe someone is going to win?

Well, here's my 2 cents worth on the subject.

I am a tranny in RL, yes a cross dresser, TV transvestite call it what you will.

I love what I do as a gender illusionist and so do the vast majority of people I meet out at clubs and parties.

There will however always be those that don't understand and fear what they can't comprehend and their reaction is usually aggression.

Be thankfull that in this SL reality they can't beat the C~@* out of you and you can simply ignore them.

If you wanna wear pink knickers or a floral dress or whatever, you go for it.

Anyway, we love you just the way you are.

Love Sasha xxx

That is a hypothesis now endorsed less and less.

A bit off-topic, but I think it is dangerous to define racism as just believing that the human species can be subdivided into races, without adding into the definition the belief that belonging to a particular race gives you an inferior or superior value as a human being. Pretending that differences (in "race", gender, appearance sexual preferences, religious beliefs, or whatever) do not exist does not make them go away. Just considering a neutral opinion that differences exist "racism" makes debating the existence of differences and their significance an invitation to flamewars, and where discussion is discouraged, prejudies grow abundant.

This is technically true - and supremely irrelevant. If you study the emergence of various racisms, they always come from a particular and simple sector: the stupid. This is not a carefully worded, nicely moulded concept which has to be rebutted in flowery english: it's something that thick(US: dumb) people come up with to justify their uncontrolled, base drives to attack "the other", no matter what that is. Picking apart their use of "other" and believing that's the problem solved, is to turn completely away from human nature. Both the South African and German racist regimes were the result of populist, working-class movements, because the intellectual elite had deserted the working man: in the UK at the moment, we are inundated with eastern european migrants, who are putting themselves in at the bottom of the economy - and re-importing some racist attitudes which the UK as a whole discarded some time back in the 80's or earlier.

It's invariably a working-class issue.

This means that combating isms of all kinds - race, sex, subcultures, what-have-you - is an INDIVIDUAL fight, and a REPEATED one. Each generation rediscovers the handy nature of putting others down for reasons that the recipient can't deny ("you're black", "your'e fat", "you wear glasses" etc), and each use of that kind of delivery happens in a small-scale, small-town context.

Same goes for SL: it's your behaviour, and those around you, not some over-arching set of rules. Though I wish I had a handy term for the sickness of assuming that every male av who strikes up a conversation wants to have sex with you: "Venus fly-trap syndrome" perhaps?

Hello Janka, you're about as on-topic as most of us anyway
Your last sentence loses me a little. I'm not sure in what context your using 'differences' here. Do you mean physical differences, social differences, perceived differences even. Maybe an example:
At Junior School I made friends with a boy from Pakistan. He could see I was white. I could see he was black. The physical was clear and needless to debate. Being very young, the social differences hadn't become of great importance and we became firm friends so perceived differences never even came into it.
My example might not have helped in fact. It's very difficult to get things absolutely right first time round

Gummi, yes, I agree, it is an ongoing fight, and more often than not a fight against the stupid.

I am not sure how that is relevant to countering what I said, however - if someone says "you are black and therefore inferior", you cannot counter that by claiming that differences in skin color do not exist, you can only counter it by saying they do exist but the difference does not matter.

Likewise, I do not think countering racism is about denying races exist. The technical definition of "race" is not, as you say, important there. You can only hope counter it by saying yes, well, there are meaningful classifications of the human species that might be called races, but so what?

And defining racism as "thinking races exist" is harmful to that countering, as it does not make a distinction between admitting differences and discriminating based on them, and thus silences the not-dumb people.

Bilbo, what I am trying to say, to clarify once more, is that you are not a racist when you say you and your friend were of different subtypes of the human species. Even if you had used the word "race" you would not be a racist.