Everyone in SL should verify using Aristotle ;)

Probably the right one



Possible but unlikely imo LL cannot lose that many people



Unlikely as i said to answer 2 and the worldwide logistics LL could not afford or manage, look how well they handle smaller tasks in SL at times.



Doubt it as Adult content is a big revenue for LL if they discontinued it completely the grid would shrink to become another There.com, Maybe thats what LL want but we have no idea as customers. When/if it does I for one would leave for the same reasons I do not use There.com, its full of kids lol



Maybe it will cause LL to rethink this adult content changes, we will see though I am sure in time.

In fact it does matter, when it applies to online services. Which is why you see the click here to verify you are an adult on some sites. It's because that is all they can do more or less regardless of the number of hoops put into place to try and keep out those that shouldn't be viewing them.

Welcome to the online world, the same level of privacy that is available means you can not verify anything about the people you meet online.

It's a catch 22 situation. If they take away the privacy, then your data is available for theft and misuse. If they leave the privacy (like there really is an option not to), you got nothing to go by in verifying who you are dealing with.

The thing that makes the internet a wonderful tool for social change also makes it a big tool for other purposes.

This would be a huge step forward and I honestly hope at least this will happen.

The result of this will have enough impact to stop the current implementation. Full stop.

I think that making any assumptions where LL is concerned is not a good idea.

I also was under the impression that though it was still in beta mode, anyone that verified would not have to do it again.

Way back when, it was clear that the information was not purged.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2007/12/10/more-on-age-verification
has Robin Linden saying that
>>>>>
"We’ve been assured by them that they are in compliance with all relevant privacy laws. But the most important point here — which we think makes a big difference in evaluating safety and compliance — is that no data is being taken, retained or stored. Rather, an automated check is done at the point of contact, and all data is then purged. Thus, there is no collecting, using, storing, or transferring of your personal information beyond the one-time match. Period. Certainly, you are not being asked to place your information in a database."
<<<<<

Further down in a comment, we have Daniel Linden being quoted
>>>>>
"May 2007: "[10:12] Daniel Linden: it’s vaulted to provided a government-required audit trail for two years, but neither Linden or Integrity can access that data unless an audit is initiated."
<<<<<

That quote is from an office hours meeting recorded in
http://laetizia.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/age-verification-philip-daniel-and-robin-speak/



Now Aristole/Intergrity stink as far as respect for data entities is concerned.
They seem to have a track record of selling data. For most of the world outside of the USA, they are harvesting information that they have no possible legal way of being in possession of in order to verify against.

The data is being stored.

What happens if a legal case arises?
The basis will be that Aristotle verified an account that has proven to be under age.
The lawyers will want to check:
What data was submitted to Aristotle?
When was it submitted?
From what IP was it submitted?
They will seek to mitigate the damage to Aristotle as far as possible.

What happens if the the core of their business is attacked? - for instance by a very public campaign to discredit it by use of 'borrowed' identity data?
If the data - that IS being stored - is actually vaulted - as opposed to being directly available - they will get a court order. They will have a prima facia case of fraud. They would dress it up as far as possible to demonstrate commercial damage.

By doing that, opening data to outside parties, instead of what they pretended; both LL and Aristotle would face civil and criminal charges.

You realise the place where you work has your data available too for theft & misuse, so do multiple government departments, your phone company etc. personally I'd rather give all my data to LL direct, and actually have anyway.

Sure it doesn't verify who is at the keyboard, but it's better than the current system that is incapable of stopping anyone.
Car keys don't verify that a driver is he owner of the car or licenced, that doesn't mean we should not bother having locks on cars.

They would not be opening it to third parties. They would be looking for specific data under a court order for use in a legal action.

Opening data "under a court order" for 3rd parties. What did I miss?

Discovery process

-- as opposed to handing over a database to "someone".

none here, verified when they first put it out there for verification.
Used my real info.

*shrug*

Given that I'm on the opposite side of the globe I think I brought it very much to the point . Leaving some small gaps with your Discovery process I don't know.

For me and my legal standpoint it means if my data goes out to a third party under whatever circumstances, LL and Aristotle break the law and can be sued.

Aww back to key examples again?

The digital world is not the physical one.

Things you can do in one to identify folks don't work in the other.

LL can verify and put all the hoops in the world up, but the return on investment fails. Even a government report on verification determined it worthless in the digital age for protecting anyone.

LL doesn't want to handle the data, hence them pushing it off onto a company. The worldwide legal issues with handling it are staggering... considering it's a felony in some places to even give LL the data needed for verification.

And you keep saying we need something better, so show me what is better than the current system... because there is none out there. So show the system that is magically able to verify users as legit... world wide with out errors 80% of the time.

As for keys, it's easy enough to bypass them with the right tools... for verification the right tools is google.

Edit: because verification is a combination lock. And there are several billion combination that will open it. Some are protected, others are not... so it's easy enough for someone to look up the ones they can use. The system in place does what it is supposed to do.

It keeps the politicians off LL's butt, and keeps out the curious kids that were taught right from wrong

If a bunch of people start verifying through Aristotle, LL may conclude Aristotle works better than anyone thought. All they know is a bunch of people are verifying successfully. The only person who wonders what the hell is up is the guy who checks the mail at Graceland and is wondering why Elvis is suddenly getting a lot more junk mail.

LL may also conclude that a rush of new age verifications indicated popular approval of the Adult Content policy.

Data control here in the EU is tough as well and as far as US law is concerned, i personally do not care so for me its a moot point. However Aristotle when signing for the verification only asks if it is TRUE information, it does not ask you if this information is yours and that it is true. Therefore how can it be fraud as I would hope people answer the question truthfully as is required

Therefore no one is breaking any rules as Aristotle itself asks you the question. The fact is what hope is there of a US company bring a law suit against me here in Holland where I live and where the rules are even tighter than in the UK over Data protection for telling people to use Aristotle and to answer the question with true information as requested.

If theyy really ae a data mining company then they aren't very good at it, or maybe my data from 5 verifications isn't worth mining

If they are data mining, the joke is on them. I don't even read my mail.

Well you keep bringing up the old, can't verify who's at the keyboard one, so passwords into computer systems don't verify that the right person is accessing your information, so might as well ditch all password protection too. Ebays verification isn't fooproof either so why do they bother having verification?

And as far as something better, there probably is, one idead is to actually pay monthly to access SL's adult features that would keep a lot of kids out too, make it a premium member perk perhaps.

And are you saying Aristole the best already? Not my job to find a better system but if it's got problems they need sorting.

And believe it or not keeping politicians off your butt is a bussiness necessity, just because the paperwork is bullcrap doesn't mean you can ignore it.

You do realize charging to access the adult content would result in loss of a good portion of the user base.

And I think your biggest problem is thinking of verification as a lock.

All that is needed is a check box to say that they are over the age of 18.

That is all the lock they need, in that it's as effective as anything else out there.

LL knows a paid to play service would fail, because SL did not expand till basic accounts were free.

There is no system out there that works. And if you say the system has problems, then you better show a better lock that works. Otherwise it's still the best system they can use.

There is no system that will keep out the kids that figure out how to bypass it.

Credit card fraud is a big problem still... again the tool called the internet will supply what a kid wants to get online if he doesn't know right from wrong.


To put it best: Verification is not designed to actually work as anything other than a cover your butt tool. It covers LL from liability, and is a carrot to show they are doing the best they can to keep kids segregated from the adult grid (combined with their enforcement)

Because:
A: there is no magic system of verification that works the way so many want it to.

B: making it a premium only perk will destroy the adult industry faster than LL's current plans... and by extension destroy SL due to what is suddenly adult.

C: they are balancing user needs over the posturing of politicians using the for the children bs to promote their careers.

D: The bs they throw up to verify in order to handle C, has to be capable of not impeding users to the point of just not bothering (go ahead, try asking for notarized copies of government documents and fingerprints to verify a person so they can create an account... see how many do so)

E: SL has a world wide presence, as such they would need data from every nation on the planet ... which is never going to happen (Due to the laws of some of those nations, as well as the fact some don't have records to provide.

Why not try a sytem where anyone with a hotmail account can get access to everything and see how many anoymous users that can keep out, oh wait we are already doing that in SL

indeed

Because that is the best that can be done short of mandatory implants in the world population with a central database of every living person's data world wide.

aristotle had better not be retaining data. that was a huge deal with the program, the assertion and guarantee that aristotle did not retain nor track data.
the way ll explained it, once you verify there is no way for either ll or aristotle to know or discover the information you used to verify with, and you are thereforward verified for life.

I dunno, seems like a lot of bad karma to me..

I will tell you a story..

4 years ago my nephew was killed at age 17, last year 2 policemen came to my sisters house with a warrent for the arrest of my nephew who was, as a witness said the leader in a gang armed robbery...... Well. this caused much distress with my sister because at the time so called robbery happend he had been dead for 2 years.

She had to prove to these police, as she was crying and needing to be medicated- that he was dead, the police had ran a search for him and it never said in their records he was deceased.... In DMV research, ran by his father who worked there, it was listed.. Red faced and ashamed they apologized and took there leave... Meanwhile my sister was in bed for days after....(and medicated)

Anyway my point is, even though you will be using this to prove a point think about what could happen...karma has no design nor direction, it comes when it comes and you never see it coming.


No, I'm sorry I will not use any person dead just to prove a point to LL.

karma....

I just can't.

But, thats pretty wacked bit of info if you ask me........

I don't think so I am sorry virtual sex or my visits at kinky bdsm dungeons isn't important enough for me to give out more personal information to company I know very little bit about. I rather email a photo of my state identification card to Second Life then give out the information they are seeking.

If I want kink and perversion I can do this my first life.

I was just doing some research into the Safe Harbour and found this US Government page

http://web.ita.doc.gov/safeharbor/shlist.nsf/webPages/safe+harbor+list?OpenDocument&Start=117

Look at Aristotles certification status:

Not current lol so EU members be aware of this.

I am collecting links for the slapt.me wiki and am including them on this page:

"SL Verification (Age & Payment) - Issues and Information"