Invasion of the Chat Log Snatchers!!

Recently I was questioned by a friend when I explained that my husband had somehow retrieved all of my chat data from the Linden servers. (That's a dramatic story for another time.) She said that it was impossible and the only place that the IM logs are stored is on the users computer, and if you don't record your chat logs then no one could see your IM.

I have heard from other people who live with computer geniuses that indeed Linden Labs does keep all of the IM conversations on a server some place and Yes, they are accessible to whomever knows how to get them using Open Source.

I have moved to Emerald browsers which have an encryption feature to prevent this, but the encryption only works with other people who have Emerald as their sl viewer.

I'd like some clarificaton on this, and perhaps some instruction on how to retrieve chat logs. After all, Turn about is fair play...

I think there may be a wee bit of chinese whispers going on with the information you're getting.

Are you sure your chat logs are not being stored on your computer?

Your husband didn't grab your chat logs from the Linden servers.

He got them either from your computer or from monitoring your network.

Encrypting the communication between users will help with the latter problem, but won't make any difference with the former.

If your husband got your chat logs he hacked the LL servers.......against the law. However I doubt he did that. Linden Lab's servers are pretty tightly locked down to any unauthorized intrusion. Plus think about the enorous task of finding your chat logs in a very vast storage system. Can it be done? Maybe.........but I really doubt it. Not without a very huge risk of getting caught. And that could lead to some very serious jail time.

Your chat log is located on your local computer. (^_^)

The Linden Lab servers do maintain a limited chat log for the sake of following up to Abuse Reports. (^_^)

But, the server side chat logs have no known history of being compromised as far as I know. when ever someone complains about an IM leaking out, it always turns out that the person on the other end was distributing it and lying about it. (=_=)

As for encrypted IMs. I'm not identified publicly with my RL identity in SL and I'm not conspiring to commit federal crimes. Why should I care if Upskirt Linden is reading my one-on-ones? (^_^)y

No, I am somewhat knowledgable about my computer and had read quite a bit about SL and security, and had heard of this Open Source issue prior to it becoming a personal issue for me.

I do not keep any of my chat logs on my computer. I actually even delete avi folders regularly. Additionally, I don't even play sl from the network at our house, and he does not have access to the network at my work.

The other bit of damning evidence that what I was told about having the chat logs saved in the Lindens' end is that I have an alt avi that my darling (yet brilliant) husband knows nothing about and he has never once mentioned her or those chat logs. Therefore, if he was monitoring my computer he would see that there are two folders from time to time in the SL applications.

and for clarification, LL does not keep a permanent store of all chat, there's even some doubt as to whether they keep much of an active cache, with it being more likely they they just choose to monitor certain people if they've been reported.

regardless, nothing short of a court order is going to get LL to hand out ANY logs, even to the account holder.

Then I guess that leaves the person at the other end of the conversation.

That's not Linden Lab, mind you. That's whoever you're chatting with.

I "am" a computer genius, and this is crap. Using "Open Source" is not a valid description of what someone would have to do in order to hack LL's servers - Open Source is a "condition" relating to programs, not a method of hacking/programming.

Open Source means that the base code of a program is available to other developers to...well... develop stuff for (plugins, addons, etc.) He might use the fact that SL is (marginally) Open Source as a way to gain access to the base code of the software - and perhaps utilize THAT as a way to create an addon you would not know about that could allow him to log your chats/IMs without your knowledge, but it would not give him access to LL's servers, which, I promise you, are not being powered by Open Source anything. And while anything is hackable, the likelyhood that you are married to a guy who is capable of hacking LL's servers is pretty much slim-to-none. He'd be doing a hell of a lot more fun (and profitable) hacking than that. LL doesn't have the best security in the world, but it's a hell of a lot tighter than the average home-hacker is capable of breaking.

It's a lot more likely that the other participants in your chats shared their logs with him, or that he is actually the person you're chatting with. Or else, if he's even a marginally talented hacker, he's hacked your work network - which is damn near guaranteed to be one hell of a lot less secure than LL's is.

Incidentally, if you're accessing SL from work...any chance your install is on a stick, rather than on your work computer itself? Be easy to attach an addon to that.

If your husband is that devious to monitor (or hack LL's servers) in order to keep tabs on you or anything else, what makes you think he will reveal all he knows?

Key loggers are intentionally hard to find when installed on a computer. I think you are barking up the wrong tree saying someone short of a computer genius has hacked your account.......someone that knowledgable about hacking computer systems would not do so for "spying" on you. The risk of being caught and the consequences are far too great for that.

It's not about Open Source software....it's about security on LL's servers. That is not open source and that's what any intruder has to get around. I think counceling is probably a better place to find your answers.

Just cause you throw it in the trashcan or equivalent on your computer, does not mean its really gone. Until the disk space is actually overwritten, there are ways to retrieve it, not to mention loggers that capture data and hide it or send it elsewhere besides the normal Application Data\Second Life directory.

As any crime scene investigator will tell you, the spouse is the first suspect to look at.

If someone cracked the LL servers, it has nothing to do with open source. The servers aren't open source, they're closed source, and the protocols between the client and server were reverse engineered before LL made the client open source.

Debian Linux and the MySQL database The "Simulator" program that runs each map region may be closed source, but the OS under it is open.

*chuckling* Agreed... I should have been more clear and succinct. This is why I don't do tech support, I suck at "dumbing down" clearly.

I wouldn't like it at all if someone was doing that - or claiming to do that - to me.

If Linden Lab evaluates abuse reports by checking their own chat logs, then obviously they log all chat (and all input I assume) and store it for some amount of time.

The stored chat logs would be subject to being turned over via subpoena. So if one had a divorce action pending, one spouse could potentially subpoena chat logs involving the other spouse from Second Life (to try to prove some sort of cheating or somesuch).

I doubt Linden Lab would give such away voluntarily, without a court-order, because it would expose them to civil lawsuits.

Precisely because chat logs would be subject to subpoena, I would guess that Linden Lab's legal advice might include not keeping chat logs any longer than absolutely necessary. Otherwise they could find themselves needing to hire a small army of paralegals to respond to all the subpoenas they would get.

You husband doesn't have to hack LL's computers, he can just hack YOUR computer.

There are dozens of ways of monitoring network traffic from your machine or his (if there is another machine in the house).

There are programs that will log all clear text in TCP traffic going in and out of your machine even when run on another machine on your home network.

This way he can find out about all your alts and every conversation you had in SL from within your own machine or your own house network. LLs servers never even have to be touched and it's 100 times esier than trying to hack LL itself.

Now if this were someone knowing this info that say lived in another country and had never been to your house and never asked you to "install this neat screen saver" then it might be more cryptic as to how he could have done it.

Seems these two threads are related:

/327/62/334998/1.html#post2529014

My reply is here:

/327/62/334998/1.html#post2530507

Here's a video by Torley on finding your chat logs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42SKhXesQo .

Here's the KB link about the chat logs location: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4598

If you use third party viewers you might have to root around a bit for them.

If I remember right; the SL server code isn't open source anyway. What is open is a reverse-engineering of the server that replicates what LL has accomplished without any of the proprietary code that they purchased. Havok4... For example. (^_^)

And, Open Source does not mean open access. In fact, some of the most secure applications on the internet are Open Source projects with companies that write OEM and proprietary code software simply adapting the OS methods in order to increase their own security. (^_^)

Your friends are either making it up because they don't actually know, or, your husband has snooped around in your Documents and Settings folder on your PC. Either way, you're surrounded by liars and snoops and probably have good reason to distrust these people. (=_=)

Really... I assume you're not conspiring with Al Qaeda to commit federal crimes. Such as that, you really have nothing to worry about. (^_^)y

In fact, one of the most secure operating systems on the Internet is the Open Source project OpenBSD. One of the least secure is Microsoft Windows.

Something that hasn't been mentioned, Chat is default stored in a folder besides "Second Life". It is/ or was set to go to your Documents folder or something like that. (I am not motivated to find out for sure where the default is, I always change mine as soon as I make an AV.)

As for him not mentioning your alt, doesn't mean a thing. He could be watching it and planning on testing you later on the material.

Not that I would use some of these, here are some interesting articles.


(Note posted for entertainment and educational purposes only)_

http://laptoplogic.com/resources/64-things-every-geek-should-know

Wow.. seems like there's more problems here than just chat logs.

Did he SHOW you the chat logs? If not, he might just be pulling your leg.

"... hmm, If I tell her I got her chat logs (using 'open source' tee hee), I can probably get her to confess what she's doing. I can probably make some good guesses as to what one may be doing while in SL. This should be fun..."


You can't use 'open source' to do anything. It's a software license philosophy. It's not a thing.