Real Children on SL?

I would like to take a moment to redirect your attention to another thread were it's obvious they could use some of your help....

Actually, my Ex LOVED Neopets.... even at the age of 23.

We even played the card game version for a bit. I hated it. Definitely something for a 12yr old to enjoy. No dying, no explosions, boooooooooorrrrring!!!!

I did however like Fusion Fall. Was quite fun!!! I just wouldnt talk to anyone or join any groups. Same with Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean. Excellent ship-to-ship combat!!

IM frree zones?
The rest of the internet doesn't have IM freezones, mobile phone networks don't have IM /SMS free zones to protect kiddies from adults, no other online platform/MMO has No-PM/IM zones that I know of to protect kids from adults and vice versa.
Better have voice free zones and local chat free zones too, and email free zones, and object to object messaging free zones. Might as well make the script free zones too or someone might show the kids naughty stuff on a media enabled prim.
Better to have Adult free zones in my view and perhaps an ignore feature for the kids to use on adults who are suss.
Better to have something like a chat relay system that relays kids chat to their designated adult perhaps, but then that's invading their privacy.

I've just encountered a different take on the same question. As a club owner, I get to meet quite a number of different people, and of course over time, I get to spot regulars, and know their behavioural patterns.

Of late, we've been "adopted" by a brace of females, whose behaviour, although completely within the bounds of respectability, is rather "self-referential". If a comment is made in the room, one or other of them instantly chimes in with an instance of how it relates to their RL experience, the same for a song, an item of clothing - whatever. In fact, it can at times be overbearing, the manner in which they attention grab without what appears to be the slightest awareness of the situation around them.

I recently, jokingly, threw out the comment "OK [name], enough of our yacking, tell us something about YOU for a change" - as a gentle hint that their behaviour
might be a little over the top .... and immediately opened the floodgates instead. Anyway, through the next few minutes it transpired that at least one of the people was "mentally retarded" (and apologies if this expression is offensive, I don't mean it to be) and although born somewhere in the mid 80s (real age, 24) their mental age was somewhat lower, possibly under 18.

So, what to do now? They're of qualifying age, according to their birth cert, etc. They don't grief, in any recogniseable way, are at no immediate risk of "being taken advantage of" when in my club (all of my team are carefully chosen and a grown up but "clean" atmosphere is maintained at all times) but one wonders if their presence on the wider grid is something which is appropriate for them - given their younger mental safe. Indeed what would the Overlord Lindens' ruling be on something like this anyway?

Comments, suggestions?

Can I "chip" in? In my real world, my "persona" - that is, what I present to the public" is as outrageous as I dare to go without being "over the top." It's easy for me because I am extreme extrovert and "trained" to present a persona to people. But in doing so I think I appear very juvenile to older people who may not "click-in" to my brand of humour or enthusiasm. Give your visitors the benefit of the doubt and enjoy their outradgeous behaviour. I always want to make people smile and laugh - even when I am feeling seriously low. I can't put away my "mask". Maybe that is them also.

That's what they already have.

Agreed.

So ID verification works then? Blow me, Elvis is not only alive, but has a major case of multiple personility disorder!

And I'm sure no child (for child, read anyone up to 17 years, 364 days 23 hours and 59 minutes) has ever had access to any of the payment methods used by Paypal or LL, or got their hands on an over 18 year olds driving licence...

Age/ ID verification DOES NOT WORK. Even if the person entering the details is over 18, they might not be the person who always uses the account. If anything, I can see there being more instances of under 18s getting up to "adult" things in SL as once in Zindra the assumption will be they aren't just likely to be old enough, they've actually proven they are. Thankyouverymuch, uh hu.



Oh why won't somebody think of the children, I hear you wail. Somebody, anybody. But let's not blame the parents. It's not their fault. It's the governments fault for not making all the decisions and doing the parenting for them. It's societys fault for not bending over backwards and restricting their freedoms to make up for the shortfall of proper parenting. It's my fault for not being or wanting to be a parent, it's your fault for not ensuring safeguards that may limit all but protect a few aren't put into place and enforced. But it's never the childs fault, and the parents cannot be held responsible, they weren't to know better.



Give me a (expletive deleted) break. SL is for adults. And whilst there are plenty enough adults with the maturity of a 5 year old and plenty of teens with the maturity of a 40 year old, SL is for those who are chronologically 18+. It's clear when joining, it's clear to Elvis when he has another bout of amnesia and needs to verify again, and it's clear in world, in th forum, and everywhere that mentions SL. Only the very young or budding sociopaths have no innate sense of right or wrong, so if there is a "child" (remember, you can screw, shoot, drive and determine your entire life plan regarding education and employment before you hit the magic 1 on the grid the chances are they know full well they shouldn't be. Then there's their parents, who instead of expecting the world to zip itself up in a straight jacket, could and should be keeping an eye on what their offspring is up to on that shiny box in the corner. I want my SL experience to be as relaxed as possible, and yes, I will take action if I ever find I am talking to someone underage. But I do not want to see my SL experience curtailed and restricted because there *might* be someone underage around. And I am certainly not fool enough to believe having access to a Paypal account or driving license number is anymore proof of age than clciking on a little box that says the same.

So lets just do nothing....don't even try because nothing will work. Let's just mouth the words. Resist every attempt, put up excuses, get pissed off at people like me.

Now that will surely solve the problem.

BTW, I never said it's not the responsiblity of the parents. I did not excuse their irresponsibility. I stated a sad fact of life...........there are some who just will not be parents. Much like there are just some who will not put any effort into attempting to really help out. Throwing your arms up in the air and stating "nothing will work so just leave it as is...........do nothing" is a great way to never find a solution. For heaven's sake, lets not try anything because it just might make your personal entry into an adult world a little more difficult. I suppose that makes sense to a selfish person.

^^THIS^^ You handled that VERY well, Brie. But that threat 'I am going to tell them we had sex'. is always present, and then what, you are banned while LL sorts it out. UGH.l Virtual Ability regularly AR's kids on our orientation sim. They just tell you, yeah, I am 11.....don't seem to even realize they are not allowed to be there. again, UGH...

I worked with special needs kids and adults in the past. In RL there are usually adult relatives who will monitor the behavior and relationships of brain damaged kids and adults. When there are no relatives, the state steps in. As awful as it sounds, some predators target people with learning disabilities and mental retardation because they're easy to manipulate.

I seem to remember, at least in my state, that when the kids I worked with reached 18 they were not entirely legal adults. The state could monitor them until they turned 25 and continued to provide services. It's not SLs responsibility to monitor them and there is no way to know. I'd rather they not step into this one.

I've assumed for a while now that some of the behavior being attributed to teens on SL probably were adults who have some form of brain damage. In the US, a lot of returning war vets have traumatic brain injuries and may be on SL, too.

My overall rule is that I don't make fun of people if they appear to be less intelligent, articulate or are having difficulty remembering. An inability to remember usually sends up a big red flag as that was something I saw frequently.

So here's a valid point... While i agree age verification is a joke, there are pro's/con's to it as well. On the old mainland, anyone with an account could access our *mature* sim. A lot of people in and out. So then you get the one asking the questions, and the conversation always gets to.... "Your how old in rl? you realize your not supposed to be here its 18+. etc, conversations ensue". You have a higher percentage admitting their true age. Now move to adult mainland. Welcome to Zindra, You had to put piof/piu/age verified, adjusted preferences, etc to get here. YOu now KNOW, 100%, minors are NOT supposed to be here. *convo ensues...*how old are you*.. 18+ cause to admit otherwise is admitting your breaking the rules, and you know enough to KNOW your catching an AR and toss.

Its double edged, any way about it. I seriously wish, while i KNOW folks hate it, that LL would go back to no free accounts. Or even, pay for the first, get up to X alts with this account free. and have all alts linked to a main (and no one but ll would know the links).

I know there has to be a better way, but personally, until someone finds it, we do the best with what we got.

~Brie

We get the death penelty for parents that dont watch thier kids

I've been saying that since 2006.

It's a bit late to put that cat back in the bag.

Yes well, it doesn't mean we shouldn't close the bag now instead of just watching an eternal stream of kittens jumping out

I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread yet but my opinion about real life children in Second Life:

At some point, the parents have to take responsibility for what their children are doing online. SL (and other websites) can only prevent access to much. The other part of that lies with the parent taking responsibility and being a parent.

I have a daughter and we have all types of filters and restrictions in place to prevent her from going to places where she shouldn't. It's not that hard.

At some point people need to stop blaming others for their lack of parental duty.

Why not? They've driven SL's growth far more than anything else.

And also supplied infinate free anomyous opportunity for scammers, griefers and mass botting alts.....................

I'm certain if LL thought those outweighed the benefits of free accounts, they'd have gone away a couple years ago.

Besides, unless you complately eliminate free accounts, as in no trial accounts and eliminate all current free accounts, it will do virtually nothing about those problems.

When in the hell did I adopt other people's children? The responsibility for the care of other people's children belongs to those parents not to me. I accept NO responsibility for anyone else or their children. The only person in this world who has any claim upon me is my daughter. Not you, not the government, not someone else or their child, ONLY MY daughter has any claim upon me.

it's a rare occasion, but I fully agree with Chris on this...

I'm not asking you or anyone else to take the responsibility for anyone else's child. I'm saying that the children who's parents do not take their responsiblity are at risk. We cannot force the parents to do the right thing. But we can encourage and actively support ideas and methods to try to make that risk a little less. Merely saying "it's not responsibility" and you won't accept any part of any responsibility for the safety of children who are not your own is turning your back on them.........leaving them flounder in the tides all alone. SL is an adult world.....children have no business here. Yet they are here..........we all know it. Why are you not alarmed? What kind of justification is it the say "it's not my business"?

You know an adult night club is also a place that children should not be.....it's actually against the law (at least it is in California, Arkansas, Texas........places I have experience with). But children do slip in.......we all know that too. Do you simply keep your mouth shut because it's "none or you business"? And if the management attempts to stop the children at the door and ask for proof of age do you support the management........or throw up barriers and refuse to participate? Where's you suggestion? A reasonable one? LL has tried to put one more barrier up to help curb the kids gaining access to adult material............have you supported them in that effort? That tired old arguement that it won't work is nothing more than resistance to change.........a change that needs to be made. You know, if the management of a bar refused to attempt to curb minors they would be closed down........that could happen to SL.

So who the hell am I to tell you to accept responsibility for other's childeren? I'm no body.........I'm not telling you to accept that responsibility. I'm saying that society must take up the slack for the ones who fail to do their part.......it's not about you at all. It's not about me. It's the kids. The "community" in SL can demand LL do something. But it takes intelligent thought about how to do it.......and enough intelligence to know nothing is perfect. But something is better than nothing........shouting about how unfair, invasive, or flawed a particular attempt is without intelligent input is doing nothing..........and doing nothing could very well be all our downfall.

And, please, don't put words in my mouth. I never said what you were talking about. You don't like the message.....fine. Come up with something better than attacking me. I could not care less what you or anyone else thinks of me. I hold opinions on many subjects......and until it's demonstrated that I'm wrong I will continue to hold those opinions. Only thing you have done is reenforce some other opinions I hold about some of the posters in this forum.

We have a social contract as modern societies in the real world to safeguard all children and treat them with respect and consideration. Not all parents behave appropriately, so we must act on the childrens' behalf. There is too much suicide, addictions and sadness in societies with great wealth. What happpened to us that we can deny responsibility for children? They are the fabric of our future.

It goes without saying, surely, that it is parents who have ultimate responsibility for looking after their children. And I have nothing but scorn for those who are simply negligent.

Children, however, are not programmable: they are individuals who are frequently quite capable of fooling their parents on occasion, and will sometimes do things that not even the most vigilant parents can prevent.

What is more, we can't know the full context of any given case. In a single parent family, for instance, vigilance is MUCH more difficult. Let's not rush to condemn.

In the final analysis, even if parents HAVE been negligent, I, for one, am not about to simply abandon the kids. Yes, the parents should be there, but aren't. So the basis of THEIR failure, do we shrug and walk away? Chris, I don't think you would, if you were faced with a situation where you could help a neglected child, your rhetoric notwithstanding. I don't really believe any of us want to live in a culture where we are NOT watching out, to some degree, for each other.

That said, I'm interested in what CAN actually be done about the kids who sneak into SL, beyond the sorts of things that have been described in this thread. We've got the age validation system, as imperfect as it is. We can be vigilant, and catch the underage kids when we can. Anything else? Or are we really just talking about philosophical differences here.

Peggy (and Jig), any ideas?