Real Children on SL?

I've got a couple of young (preteen) nieces who are really into Club Penguin, and they have given me "tours."

Actually, it's pretty astonishingly similar to SL in a number of ways, with avatars (albeit chunky penguin ones), shopping, house-owning, TPing to different locations for different events, and (of course) text chat. (But no IMs, thank god.) It really IS a Disneyfied kiddie version of SL.

A LOT of kids seem to be into this. Interesting question: when THESE kids come of age, will their familiarity with a kiddie VW lead them to migrate to SL in a way that the current crop of 18-25 year-olds hasn't? Or will their preoccupations remain with RL shopping, house-owning, clubbing, and (of course) sex?

I love Club Penguin and watch my kid play that and Pirates a lot! Pirates is cool but so dark in most places- might be the machine but Penguins doesnt have tht problem.

I have two kids on the teen grid.


~ They have *never* been on the main grid

~ They don't really care to be on the main grid, believe it or not

~ They play every day for a few days then leave it alone for months

~ they consider 'naughty stuff' here as pathetic in the *extreme*. Remember what a real high school social environment is like and perhaps you'll understand why

~ I've never seen them or their peers act as rudely as their parents do regularly

~ they consider main grid largely the province of parents and a few creeps, hence: awful on both counts


The first thing they would do is hang out with other young people. And no, adults aren't going to 'pass' as one of them easily at all, any more than an 18 year old is going to 'pass' as a 45 year old single mom. Anyone who tries to 'be all cool' with them is going to come off as creepy Uncle Ernie or mad old Aunt Bea within seconds.

And if they ran across Uncle Ernie or Aunt Bea on a poseball, they would assuredly back away slowly in utter disgust and fear.

* * * * *

Not to crush anyone's feelings, of course. Obviously we are all beautiful, compelling, fascinating creatures and the kids are simply too obtuse to see all that. That's my rationale, and sticking to it...

No building.

Ah, good point. At least I think it is . . . I'll have to ask.

Oh, and they have an AR system too, I think, with suspensions for bad behaviour and language. The mind boggles . . .

QFT

I believe that there are MANY teens on SL, both girls and boys, but probably more boys than girls. In my experience, sandboxes and combat areas are full of blatant underagers.

I ARed a teenage kid yesterday. Pretty amusing conversation actually. First, I get a random tp request to our sandbox, which I decline. Then:

[2009/07/27 13:02] Dumb Kid: can you come to solace cove [our public sandbox!] i need to talk to you
[2009/07/27 13:02] Dumb Kid: hello
[2009/07/27 13:02] Ayesha Lytton: I can probably answer your questions in IM just fine. What's up?
[2009/07/27 13:03] Dumb Kid: yeah i was wondering if you could like give me permission to play stuff here like movies because i want to start like a free movie thing
[2009/07/27 13:03] Dumb Kid: when im here
[2009/07/27 13:04] Dumb Kid: you still there
[2009/07/27 13:05] Ayesha Lytton: um, there's not really a way to do that without putting you in the staff group
[2009/07/27 13:05] Dumb Kid: could you do that
[2009/07/27 13:05] Dumb Kid: i promise i wont take advantage of it
[2009/07/27 13:05] Ayesha Lytton: No, sorry
[2009/07/27 13:05] Dumb Kid: oh okay thats fine
[2009/07/27 13:05] Dumb Kid: bye then
[2009/07/27 13:07] Dumb Kid: sorry to bother you but is there any way i can earn that privelage
[2009/07/27 13:09] Ayesha Lytton: We do have movie nights periodically
[2009/07/27 13:10] Dumb Kid: what if i p[ut it highup in the sky would that work
[2009/07/27 13:10] Ayesha Lytton: If you join Solace Beachcombers, you can get announcements when we have events
[2009/07/27 13:10] Dumb Kid: i already am
[2009/07/27 13:11] Ayesha Lytton: If you are wanting to show movies for yourself/friends, I'd suggest renting a plot of land
[2009/07/27 13:11] Dumb Kid: how much
[2009/07/27 13:11] Dumb Kid: would it let me if i got a sky house
[2009/07/27 13:11] Ayesha Lytton: Cheapest we have is L$250/week
[2009/07/27 13:12] Dumb Kid: would it let me if i got a sky house
[2009/07/27 13:12] Dumb Kid: because i dont have any money
[2009/07/27 13:12] Ayesha Lytton: you could show a movie if you got your own land, that is the only way
[2009/07/27 13:12] Ayesha Lytton: You can buy L$ with a credit card or paypal
[2009/07/27 13:13] Dumb Kid: dont have a credit card
[2009/07/27 13:13] Ayesha Lytton: Paypal only requires a bank account
[2009/07/27 13:14] Dumb Kid: dont have that either
[2009/07/27 13:14] Ayesha Lytton: Hmm, how did you afford a computer with sufficient power to run SL?
[2009/07/27 13:14] Dumb Kid: my mom
[2009/07/27 13:15] Dumb Kid: i am 14
[2009/07/27 13:16] Dumb Kid: do you know where i can get free land
[2009/07/27 13:18] Ayesha Lytton: I am sorry but you have to be 18 to use Second Life. I have reported you and will have to ban you from my estate for my own protection. Please apply for Teen Second Life
[2009/07/27 13:20] Dumb Kid: thats real ice thanks alot
[2009/07/27 13:20] Dumb Kid: thats real nice thanks alot

Those shocking news stories get more traffic to the website but the facts are rarely checked before the stories are published. Or the stories are written in such a way as to be misleading without actually being untrue. That pretty much sums up all news these days.

Infohubs, too. What always surprises me is how many of them use voice. I've heard a lot of kids' voices near the big Bay City hub. :-/

A few days ago in a mature sim ( if it was main land it would of been adult) I was reading the profile of a guy chatting me up. When I got to his 1st life info it clearly said he was 14. I asked him how old he was to see if he would back up what was in his profile and he said he was 14. I pointed out he should not be there and to go to the teen grid, he told me there was a 10 yr old in the sim at the moment also so what was my problem. I reported him to LL and to the sim owner then I ad a few words with the groups he belonged to and those i spoke to were very happy i told them. I also siad to the boy how would he feel if he was playing about with his mothers best friend or his school teacher .. he logged out at that

My eldest who is 25 sounds like a little girl on the phone

What he said.

I wouldn't worry, the main grid will be family friendly in 2 years anyway, you can't become the "3D internet of the future" while excluding half the population, particularly when they are going to be more tech orientated than us oldbies anyway

Yep!

But twelve year olds grill up better. Just like Veal. No steak sauce needed!!!

I'll second the last part, and absolutely suggest that no one in their right mind (or even anyone wishing to be) EVER use Net Nanny.... it's one of the most godaweful pieces of trash software ever invented.... topped only by that crap that AFA puts out called bsafe

All this talk about children being on the Adult Grid in SL and how immature they might or might or not be...........dressing up their avatar (take a look at my name in SL). How much there is or is not in SL that attracts their attention..........cars, killing other avatars, crashing airplanes, skate boarding. That stuff skirts the real problem that I see exists in SL (or any other virtual world). It's not what interests them........it's what's dangerous for them. They are kids. Kids tend to be gullable, easily tricked, honest, and very open to trusting what they see as adults. I doubt all that crap about them being "corrupted" by adult content is a problem.......if they are experienced enough with computer, which most are, then the corruption, if is going to be done is already there. Those are not the ones I'm concerned for........they will either grow out of it or not (the damage has been done). It's that 12 year old who wonders into the SL grid who is innocent, wanting to have friends, wants to be accepted by her friends.............and some creep finds her/him. That child could very well wind up on the news. That is my fear.........not the errant parent (you cannot legislate or force parents to be parents). Not what I've read so far about what everyone thinks is harmful to the childs pychi or if they can or cannot be corrupted. I'm worried about that child who trusts the wrong person...........gets abused. And if you don't believe there are creeps lurking in SL looking for that trusting child you are really stupid.

SL should be locked down as tight as technically possible to allow adults only as far as is humanly possible. Either that to turned into a virtual Disney Land. It will take only one.........just one. Everyone pays lip service to protecting children........but few are willing to accept any meaningfull way to do just that.

I'm betting LL is aiming for a Virtual Disneyland with Restricted Kid Only/Adult Only Areas hybrid myself
And the other fear is are kids dangerous to us, their tech savvy inquisitive manipulative juvinile minds will probably be too smart/sneaky/good for many adults to handle

Second Life is for old farts, the kids have better places (for them) to hang out.

http://www.kzero.co.uk/blog/?page_id=2537

Fixed it for you.

HTH

Naww.........you fixed it for you. Resistance to age/ID verification proves how much you are willing to accept responsibility. As I sad, you cannot force anyone to be a parent. There will always be the ones who just won't do it. It's up to society to try as best they can to protect those children that are so unfortunate to be in that family. But, saying "it's not my problem. It's the 'parents' of those children's problem" only shifts the responsibility away from us. It does absolutely nothing to help protect the children who could be a victim. Bury your head in the sand.........and cry when child is abused. Don't even think of what you could have done to help prevent it.

ITA what Peggy said in post # 41.

To Tegg - adults are not the technophobes a lot of 'kids' make them out to be. Nor are they technologically ignorant. The internet and (home) computers have been around since the mid-90s at least, in a big (open to anyone with $) way. Plenty of time for people to have acclimated to computer and the internet in ten or more years.

Your statement implies that someone over 18 is somehow more stupid and more slow than someone under 18. That isn't true of running a real life business, driving a car, or using technology in the real world. Why would it be true in Second Life?

(Also - people under 18 are HALF the population? No, they're not.)

Same convo in my old mature location (Escort agency)

went something along the lines of...

*dumb kid* how do i get money for sex?
*me*... buy it on the website with paypal/creditcard
*dk*...my mom won't let me
*me* how old are you?
*DK* 15... why?
*me* your not going to be buying sex in Sl at my place or anywhere, the grid is 18+, i have ar'ed you and you are being banned.
*DK*... well you suck. I'm going to tell them we had sex.
*me* feel free... LL can read any and all IMs and group chat... they can see exactly what happened.
*DK* your a bitch.
*me* Thank you, and your muted. Enjoy the teen grid.

It is sometimes quite funny...will say that on the mainland, it was no end to the griefers/asshats, since we got to Zindra, i have banned more people for trying to steal my employees than for anything else. That at least is an improvement.


~Brie

Brie that is absolutely frightening to me in that it is exactly what would happen if kids are allowed onto main SL with LL's blessing. But picture voice chat in the mix which no one can prove a record of.

It isn't mature content that is the danger. Anyone can text anywhere. The whole Zindra partition seems to be preparing for letting "the other half" as Tegg might put it, into SL and the ramifications are frightening. At least they should have 'kid zones' or 'family zones' within SL in which IM are disabled. (LL can read IM later, yes, it isn't to protect against AR in that case but to protect the kids in the FIRST place. They could be pexing with someone hot and heavy in IM all the way across the grid, while at their virtual family gathering. Barf-aroni!)

People do keep saying instead of carding everyone at the SL door, partition off a kid friendly area, and card the KIDS wanting to go in there. But have crossover with the shopping part of SL in that adults can come to that part, run businesses, shop in the kid-run businesses, etc. But have IM disabled there, maybe voice disabled too who knows...maybe not voice. Kids love to chat on voice, with each other. But at least that would be preferable to letting kids run all over SL with LL's blessing. Frankly I think kids pop up on these forums too sometimes and we see how well THAT goes...

Nothing against kids, I was one myself but I was an unusually serious, quiet and obedient one...Lol. (Honest)

*One more idea: Have a kid friendly section of XL Street as well as allow kids in the teen grid to sell their items on XL Street in that section, to anyone in SL.

I do use voice and i worry about that also. Call me paranoid, but i am NOT catching RL charges cause Lil Johnny thinks my pixels are sexy. When i get someone in voice that sounds young, I kill my mic, and ask in text chat how old they are. If they refuse to answer me in text, i boot/ban/ar them. Hell, i even get paranoid when folks type a certain way...Why? Cause most adults spell (even typos) different than kids.At least if it turns out they ARE a minor, i did all i could. I seriously do not think that there is any reasonable way LL could safely let kids on the main grid. Not because all us smut peddlers don't have morals, cause i know a LOT of people and ALL agree kids have no place in our part of the grid, but cause if a kid has lied that hard to get here, they will keep it up. Protecting the kids IS the parents responsibility.. if they parents can afford the computer/high speed net for the kids to be even able to get into SL, they should be able to take care of their own.

~brie

ITA again, every word. Well said.

At that age I would've been horrified at the idea of breaking the rules or sneaking in let alone the rest. But tv raises kids today (gosh I sound like my parents did, now) and it's a different world.