What would you need, to feel like you had a role in SL?

No, what I'm saying is this. According to the poll so far, only 8 out of 35 people mentioned "having others not ignore the role" as something necessary. That's about 23%. So the remaining 77% of responders presumably would stil consider themselves to be role-playing if they were being ignored. Now, I know that these results don't scale well to SL as a whole but still that is surprising. It means that the majority of people who say that they are "role-playing" in SL could mean that they were being ignored, but that they are OK with that. Now that's fine but it is important information for those who wouldn't be OK with that - it means those people's claims that they are "role-playing" don't fit it.



It would be interesting. Although the whole "sim" thing is a problem really. Why do we have to have an environment where you have to spend upwards of US$1000 (and much more if you have to hire a builder) just to get to try out an original RP?



Actually, I'd say it's more of a mutual thing than a trade. Certainly turn-taking doesn't work with Argent's claim of expanding population being beneficial, if turn-taking is occuring then the larger the population gets, the less often any individual's turn comes. What you describe is, I believe, the reason why BDSM is so popular: "dominant" is about the only role that can have such a high level of control over the RP without running into problems with non-reciprocity.

I didn't say "there are people I can't be around because we disagree about religion" (or computers, or fox-hunting), I said there are people I can't discuss religion or computers with, or whom I can't wear my anti-hunt avatar (a skinned fox) around. There are people who are total OS fanatics, or who are ardent Creationists, or who are just squicked by zombie foxes. I can not interact with people in certain ways when these people are around.
Most people will believe you have a right to your religious views, but there's more people who'll freak out and disrupt your interaction if you start mocking their crazy fundamentalist theories than if you start role-playing a ferret.

The problem you're talking about is not a problem specific to role-play, it's a general problem with human interactions. It's a constant term, it doesn't change the combinatorial factor.
That's role-play.

That's what's usually called light rp, as opposed to heavy or hardcore. Some people like it one way, some the other, many even both. All are possible in SL. Are you unsatisifed with the claims made about SL, or maybe with your own personal qualities?


You use the search or ask around and tp to the right areas.


You make an alt and try again. You will have to be very busy and very much act like an ass to be banned from 'all critical areas', and yet, there will always be new ones, and there will always be new players.


Not an SL-related problem as such. In SL you are actually more likely to find people who want to play what you want to play even if it's a bit eccentric.


Again, not an SL-related problem. If you want to go skiing, but everyone else is at the beach, what are your options? In SL you can build your own skiing resort and try to attract people there.

I'm not sure you are really looking for any information you are actually going to use for anything. You just seem to want to say 'SL SUCKS'. Well, go ahead. Say that SL SUCKS because when you tried to rp everyone ignored you, and you didn't find a sim you liked, and when you settled for something there was drama and you got banned, and so on and so on. Yeah, happened to me too, but you see..

..For every problem there's a solution. I tire of presenting you with ideas and solutions if you aren't genuinely interested in trying them out. You have the _priviledge_ of making choices in life, and living a life like you want. It's your _responsibility_ to make the right choices. By wasting your time on arguing on these forums, you avoid facing your real problems.

But really, if you have chosen antagonistic misery, then arguing with you is only going to make it worse - you'll only come up with more arguments to support your position of why you should remain miserable, passive and hopeless. So if you really want to ask something about RP, sure, go ahead and ask. Or if you genuinely need ideas or suggestions, I'll try to think of something. But no arguing. I hope something of what I'm saying is getting through to you.

You don't. You can role-play in a sandbox, in a First Land parcel, in a phone booth, in an IM window or web-forum. At least, I can. If your problem is that you *can't* then that's where you need to be directing your energies.
*snort*

"Sorry, I can't talk about the taxonomical re-categorization of Canidae in light of mitochondrial DNA analysis, it's my turn and we're talking about the derivation of counting numbers from set theory in Knuth's monograph 'Surreal Numbers'".

... Unless all the people are pulled into the sims, which they often are.

You can role-play in a sandbox, in a First Land parcel, in a phone booth, in an IM window or web-forum, or even in the corner of a Furry-Feminist Tiny-Gorean Pirate-vs-Ninja role-playing sim.

Besides... ALL the people?

That's like "if everyone on earth but you was eaten by really picky aliens, could you still make a living as a software integrator?"

I think you have a very serious misunderstanding of the basic nature of BDSM here. The dominant doesn't control the scene, if anything, the sub does. Non-reciprocal BDSM is flat out abuse, yes, on the level of rp as well.

Is that right? Does "Light RP" mean just hanging out socially with others in character, like vampires hanging out in a Goth bar but where others there are vampire RPers; or does it mean just going to a club with everyone else, and doing nothing about the role really?



How is it not an SL-related problem? It affects SL. Ok, it isn't specific to the additions SL makes to standard chat, but it still affects SL.



Just because you can't find what you want doesn't mean you are a good builder.



I didn't actually see any ideas or solutions, just denials of the points I was trying to make. Advice or solutions would be in sentences of the form "Now you do (something)..", not "You're wrong because I or other people could do (something)..."



If that's wrong, shouldn't all those arguments be beatable, though?

Yes, of course, but what I mean is that BDSM provides a way to gain reciprocity for behaviours that would be socially unacceptable in other cases. Want to be a ninja who wins every single battle they ever fight? You can't do it in ninja RP because the other ninjas would want to shine too. But if you can find a submissive who gets all excited at being beaten by a ninja of the appropriate sex, bingo, reciprocity. And as others have said there is probably _someone_ out there who gets excited at just about anything, although they may not be in SL, or they may have already left.



Certainly when I was starting in SL, I found it was impossible to organise any RP because people would inevitably leave anything I was doing to go somewhere that had a better build/more people/more content. But, if I tried to take time out to create something like that myself, they would _also_ leave saying that since I was working rather than playing they would have to be entertained elsewhere. That's a catch-22, it seems.

Maybe you just need partners or helpers?

Other people have setup roleplay areas and games, so it *is* possible.

When I read that choice, I was thinking about mothers with tummy-talkers or vampires biting newbies... I took it to mean, "I can force my role on others whether they want it or not" and that's why I didn't check it.

But on the other hand, going back to re-read some of your comments, it looks like that is the sort of thing you're talking about, right? About establishing a role that's recognized pretty much everywhere in SL?

So you don't just want to role-play, you want to organize a formal event or you just want to role-play in a themed area under your control? OK, let's consider one of the most formal and organized kinds of role-play out there... fantasy role playing games. You're the games-master.
You know, if you hang around while your GM is working on his maps, encounters, non-player characters, and other background material for a campaign.

1. You'll get really bored.
2. You'll get kicked out, or they'll go somewhere else.
3. You probably won't be invited to the next session/campaign.

You, as the GM, seem to have time-management issues.

Did you read what I wrote before that? I didn't, particularly want to. It just became obvious that I was going to _have_ to, because when I didn't, and instead just tried to RP in emotes or IMs, people were constantly pulled away by the built and organised sims.

Not that's recognized pretty much everywhere, but that isn't specfic to a limited group of people in an RP sim. I get the impression - and I'm sorry if I'm wrong - that Argent can bite people pretty much anywhere. Doesn't mean that everyone will react the way he wants, but he can do it.

I'd say the former is light rp, the latter just being OOC. Which all rp'ers do on occasion, even Teh Truu HC ones.


Ok, sorry. Now you contact me in-world, and you tell me what you want to know and what you want to do (because it's not clear to me yet, sorry). I will tell you what I know and we'll look for ideas and solutions.



No, because like I said, emotional problems aren't solved by logical argumentation. Intellectualizing is a defense that will keep you from emotionally engaging the issues. This is something that you won't be able to grasp purely by logical thinking - because the logical thinking itself is exactly the defense that is keeping you from accessing the understanding! Talk therapy was a concrete solution I suggested for RL problems, it will teach you new ways of thinking.

No. God-modding is as frowned upon in BDSM rp as anywhere else. And you have to beat the sub up in the way _they_ want you to, which is the tricky part. The dom is often actually serving the sub's kinks, not the other way around. Please familiarize yourself with the topic before making more assumptions because you're way off the mark here.

I'm not understanding what you're talking about at all, then. You were trying to role-play at location X, and the people you were playing with went to location Y, so you decided to create location Z to attract them, but they were being bored watching you build? Why didn't you just go along to Y?

You can role-play in a sandbox, in a First Land parcel, in a phone booth, in an IM window or web-forum, or *even in the corner of a Furry-Feminist Tiny-Gorean Pirate-vs-Ninja role-playing sim*.

Usually because Y had a setting or ideas or rules I didn't like. And often the others would be quite apologetic, saying they actually liked my idea better but having a larger community and a well built sim was worth the tradeoff to them (and no, they wouldn't be satisfied by just standing in the corner).

You are wrong, you are equating all SL vampires with the BL spampires. What the majority of them do is not roleplay at all.

Many vampires in SL are nothing like what you have written in your post.

I have *never* had anyone object to being bitten by me and I do not use animations, blue popups or much else of the "platforms features". In fact about the only "feature" I use is that I wear fangs (other than chat and IM of course).
As usual your statements about these things show a lack of general understanding or shows understanding about a non-representative segment at best. Perhaps it would be better to quit trying to extrapolate from specific cases to a general case in your understandings as from my reading of your posts this is what inevitably leads your reasoning down the wrong paths.

Yumi, I've harped on this as well. Read what Gabriele has written. It's understandable to want to generalize, to try to understand the system as a whole. The problem is, your generalized models are without fail way to simplistic, based on an incomplete set of data, and well, just generally aren't accurate.

What is clearly obvious to me is that Yumi has a problem relating to people and their circumstances and more than a few people don't have the ability to understand Yumi very well, as shown by the forum conversations that occur when Yumi posts her questions.

Yumi further more does not understand roleplay very well as regards SL, possibly roleplay outside of SL also. If that were not the case then she would not find it hard to join a group and participate.
From my reading this inability to join established roleplay successfully has forced her to try and create roleplay areas in the past that have failed to attract roleplayers of any quality.

I don't find that surprising at all. If we on the forums are having this much difficulty understanding where Yumi is coming from and she is seemingly unable to understand (at least) SL roleplay basics and the motivations behind it as they are being described to her or does not like the way it is done then after a short period of time talking to Yumi, prospective roleplayers are quickly going to go to roleplays that are run by people who do understand the kind of roleplay that is established in SL.

This assessment may seem harsh but this is the crux (as I see it) of the problems that Yumi is facing and that people are facing with Yumi.

If Yumi truly wants to participate in roleplay then my advice to her is:

Forget creating your own place until you have successfuly engaged in established roleplay for a significant period of time and gained the valuable experience that only comes from doing this.
Try to accept that they will have rules you do not like and try to immerse yourself in the role that you have chosen. Be that character, live and breathe it if you can.
Above all perserve with it even if it frustrates you at times. Be as accepting of the game and its rules as you can be, be respectful even if you think parts of it are stupid or contemptable and try to get as much fun as you can from it.
Ask for help from the people around you when you are stuck but don't deep-end into asking endless inane questions, ask enough to get what you need to continue and let the rest be for that moment.
Understanding will eventually follow from the experiences you gain and the participation.

If you are unable to do this at all for whatever reason, then you will undoubtedly fail at creating your own roleplaying environment too.

Exactly my point. The vampires who do use the platform features are rejected; thus those features inhibit RP.



This I usually do deliberately to encourage people to consider category distinctions I believe they've missed.

Those platform features are not suited nor intended for that use they are put to. If those features were aimed at vampire use and they still failed then you would have a point but as they are not your point fails.
Also it is not roleplay that is being performed when those people are rejected, it is griefing and so again your point fails.

I would recommend you stop doing this then. To successfully be able to debate like this you should have a better than average understanding of the subject and it is clear to me at least that than you do not.

I do understand it. However, I won't apply my understanding if the only outcome of doing so would be that I realise I lose and don't get what I want. After all if that is true my only hope comes from my understanding maybe being wrong. I'm basically just not interested in most of the established roleplay.

Perfect example. You've found *a case* where (mis-)using the technology at hand is interfering with good RP. So it's certainly true that it *can* happen. But don't try to then conclude that it *always* happens. And certainly don't pass judgment on SL's technology based on an *implied* judgment that it *always* happens.

A better conclusion would be to say, like all technology, it can be used well, misused, can help or hinder the particular goals at hand. Which is to say, you can't really conclude anything (from this example) which is in any way non-trivial.