If you're so frustrated and annoyed by every little detail.....why do you bother???

Why would a "definition" of "business" step on toes? Is someone going to get upset over the definition of the word "is"?

Did you know that the IRS can declare your business as "not a business" and deny any tax shelters it provides, simply based on how it is run?

A business is called a "business" for certain reasons; calling a hobby a "business" doesn't make it one, even and especially in the eyes of the law.

So, I ask again, why would a "definition" of "business" step on toes?

I apologize for being rude to you. Will you in turn apologize for being rude to me?

I can't speak for the others. But is seems like your entire definition would leave a lot of people out qualifying their SL business as a legitimate business....when they indeed feel as if they are operating a business.

Part of your definition actually disqualifies my RL business this year.

*Stepping gingerly in, briefly...* Maybe, cause, it's only 'your' definition? A matter of opinion rather than an across the board definition? As surely we cannot define, anything, really, for another. I know there are many things, common to SL that I would consider 'wrong' in RL, but in SL, it's more of just a choice whether to visit those things or not, based on my definition of wrong or distasteful or whatever.

Could you please point out how I was rude to you? By not getting your point? By misinterpreting? By not agreeing? Or was it something else?

You mischaracterized what I wrote, I disagreed with your characterization, and yet you continued to put words into my mouth. I consider that rude. Perhaps you don't, that's your business, it's no skin off my nose if you feel the need for more drama than I find appropriate.

i'm curious how it would leave a lot of people out of the equation..

"you are self employed if you carry on a trade or business as a sole proprietor, or if you are an independent contractor. Even if your business is part time, or you have a full time job in addition to your business, you are still self employed."

"if you are carrying on an activity with the intent to make a profit, you are a business. You don't have to have a formal business name or business agreement to be in business. Something as simple as buying items to sell on eBay is a business, because your goal is to make a profit."

Quoting both because the same answer applies:

It isn't about "speaking for others". A thing is defined by its characteristics, not simply by what we think it should be. Some people believe that their hobby is a real, legitimate business, until the IRS says "nope, sorry". People who teach about business and running one properly espouse those characteristics. If they can't be trusted to help define it, then who can we trust? If we're going to ignore objective definitions in favor of subjective definitions of a word, what's the point in using it to communicate?

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with having a "hobby". However, if it doesn't have the characteristics of a "business", then why use the wrong word to describe it? It shouldn't make it any lesser in the eye of the beholder to call it what it is.

Those elements aren't simply my "opinion". Google "elements of business" and "principles of business" and you will find a myriad of examples of those same elements. Why? Because that's what people generally accept as objective definitions as to what having a "business" means.



The issue isn't avoiding those 'wrong'/'distasteful' things, but NOT being able to avoid them, or their effects. If they impinge on me without my permission, then they should be dealt with. If I can deal with them directly, I will. Otherwise, I will seek out the most appropriate party in dealing with them, even if that means "complaining" about them to world+dog on the way. I don't buy the "if you don't like something, you can always leave" argument, either, as it is a cop-out stance. Sure, I can leave. So can you; so can everyone else. Then SL will be no more, because the whole point of its existence will have been nullified by taking such a stance.

Yeah, sure, we can leave; leaving is easy. Staying (and having people give us a reason to stay by NOT giving us reasons to leave) is the hard part.

I might be wrong...but I recall quite a few people here saying that they do not do it for a profit....simply to break even.

There are some other differences, but that's the one that sticks out.

I don't see a majority doing it to break even in the forums..you have some..i deal with a lot of businesses in sl and it is about profit or trying for a profit..caring and being ethical does not mean the intent for profit is not there..

breaking even is still keeping your boat afloat..
you will have a better chance of calling it a hobby if it costs to do it rather than pays the bills selling products..

i'm sure you have some doing it for fantasy..but do you really truly believe that the majority of businesses in SL are doing it as an RP and not intent to make a profit?
the bot population and all the qaming of the search kind of proves it's pretty much about looking for the profit..

Which is why you'll note that I didn't use the word "profit", or any sense of same in the characteristics I listed. Charities can still be businesses, too. Most often, their "income" doesn't come from the people they serve, but from others whom they don't serve (either at all, or just at that time).

People who do it without any kind of consideration being paid by anyone aren't really running a "business".

I told you how I interpreted what you wrote. Simple as that. I asked you several times to qualify and explain what you thought I was misinterpreting. You never did. You simply replied with a condescending comment on my reading skills.

I am still interpreting every post that you are submitting as a perfect example of someone who is consistently annoyed.

You also proved my point that the use of the word "drama" is often abused. I thought that I was having a pretty cordial discussion with a few people. Correct me, if I'm wrong. I don't see any drama.

Which proves yet another point....that those who say they do not want drama, are the first ones to start it.

Of all of the folks I have ever encountered in SL who run a business or want to run a business or used to run a business, I have yet to meet even one who considered it strictly fantasy. Most are caring folks who at the very least have pride and feelings wrapped up in their work and creations and at most consider their SL business to be a RL one. I consider mine to be a RL biz because it pays my bills in RL. Without it, I would not be able to do and have many of the RL things that I do.

As for dismissing people's feelings, concerns and complaints...if I own or run or participate in an SL business - whether it is a "fantasy" or not...to just casually dismiss someone's concerns because they dont fit into my idea of how things should be would be extremely rude and callous on my part and probably would have me OUT of business in SL rather quickly.

I do not believe that anyone in SL truly separates their real feelings. ideas, concerns, etc OUT of how they operate here. We are real people, with real feelings and and goals. For some of us it is to just have fun. But once we step into the realm of SL business and portray ourselves as a business person, we have some responsibility to follow through on that portrayal whether it suits us or not. We cant just say...oh well, go away because you have a concern...and then think there will be no consequences to that.

SL is a part of my RL...not "just" SL. And I operate here accordingly.

And that annoys you, does it? That's something you find annoying. You're telling me how I should behave, because I'm not behaving the way you want.

Does that sound familiar? It should.

Look, I didn't say that everyone should find the same things annoying and rude as I do, nor did I say that everyone should act exactly the way I want them to act. When you said that's what it sounded like I was saying, I said, no, it wasn't. That was the end of it as far as I was concerned. You don't need to bring it up again.

Ouch. Are you implying that is how I run my SL business because of an extreme example I gave?
I could be wrong....please correct me if I am...but I gather that, because:

1) seems that there are only a few of us giving examples now
2) you do that in every thread I participate in....it's starting to be rather noticeable

you are dead wrong...i was using your illustration of the fantasy restaurant and stating my own opinions based on your example. i have not mentioned you at all...

as for doing this in every thread you start...i actually state my opinion in every post i make and am always very careful NOT to make it personal...ever.

Edit to add: How you interpret things is out of my control.

I've always been very clear on what your intentions are Jojo....no matter how well disquised.

I dont disguise my opinions and I dont make it personal...if you see it that way, that is your option. I could also say that it seems you call me out each time I am commenting in a thread that you start, but then...that would be creating drama...to point out someone in a thread and imply that you know what im thinking. hmmmm....

You made it personal a long time ago....you got your swipes at me....did some damage.....should have let it go....but you won't.....you could take it private....or you can continue to do it here....your choice.

And that is a perfect example of REAL drama.

I'm not putting up with your BS anymore Jojo. I'll call it out every time. Just fair warning.

Be careful. Doing it for money is frowned upon by some people here in the forum

Just to be very clear...I dont make it personal..ever.

since i barely know you, possibly have spoken with you twice in world many months ago and never interact with you except for what is public in the forums...I have nothing to hide or be concerned about.

Whatever drama you have in your mind about our interactions is solely of your own creation and trying to imply anything otherwise is out of line in a public forum.

Who?

giggle injection time


Vinny Gambini: It is possible that the two yutes...

Judge Chamberlain Haller: ...Ah, the two what? Uh... uh, what was that word?

Vinny Gambini: Uh... what word?

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Two what?

Vinny Gambini: What?

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Uh... did you say 'yutes'?

Vinny Gambini: Yeah, two yutes.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: What is a yute?

Vinny Gambini: Oh, excuse me, your honor...

Vinny Gambini: Two YOUTHS.

There was a young woman named Melanie
Who was asked by a man "do you sell any"
She said, "No siree!
I give it for free
For to sell it you see is a felony."

Just want to be clear that I am not defending someone who is "screwing over" other people....nor suggesting that is the way to play the game. Maybe that is a few people's fantasy....not mine

Even with the extreme example that I gave....would be hard pressed to identify how the restaurant owner is screwing anyone over.

I'm pretty much with you on the black and white areas of running a business as far as ethics go. Not sure if you and I would agree on the gray areas.

But then....who are you and I to define what is black and white and what is gray, anyway.

It's probably the attempt to "define" something here, that I fight for.....and play devil's advocate for....once you start doing that....you start taking away some freedoms that people come here to enjoy.