If you're so frustrated and annoyed by every little detail.....why do you bother???

Contemplative and Reflective....not annoyed.

i've learned that when a bunch of people end up at the same place often enough that these things tend to surface..and i think it's pretty normal in any social situation..

Happiness/Sadness
Good/Bad
Love/Hate
Hope/Despair
Acceptance/Rejection
Calmn/Agitated
Boredom/Excitement
Kindness/Cruelty

now this doesn't hold true when dealing with Puppies and kitties because puppies and kitties are just always so lovable..

Then it isn't a business, it is just as you say, a fantasy.

I'm not talking about fantasies (business or otherwise), I am talking about businesses. In your example, it doesn't really matter if the restaurant owner charges or not, since it isn't why he is doing it in the first place. He could be running a fancy Sci-Fi restaurant, serving Ferengi, and accepting payment in bars of gold-pressed latinum, for all it matters.



Sure, if someone wants to spend their time and effort on a fantasy, more power to them. I'm not engaging in a fantasy when I run a business in SL. The money isn't fake. The customers and staff are not actors. The products took a lot of time and effort to create, and it is work to support them. Thus, I interact with the SL business ecosystem, because that's what I have to do in order to have more than 4 customers. My customers want to buy stuff, take it home, and wear/use it. They aren't interested in my life or any drama related to it, nor do I have any desire to push it on them.

Now, if my business is to run a RPG in SL, that's different. Then, I can indulge other people's fantasies and provide drama/conflict as part of the unfolding story. However, I still have to interact with the RPG business ecosystem, unless I just don't care about making money or having ANYone come play my game. Maybe I made my game just for me; I can do that, but most people who do aren't doing it for that reason.

Anyway, I am not sure where you wanted to go with this, but that's basically how I see it in that context.

I dun tend to be all that frustrated an annoyed. Sure, some things might bug me (Hooo! Hooo! Hooo! Hoooooooooo!), but this too shall pass. If someting really bothers me(some of the drama du jour f'r me), then I might dwell on it a bit -- but it too often passes. I've been here long enough an seen enough to realize that all drama moved on, eventually.

Besides, I'm here to have fun, first an foremost.

Sometimes reality and life is just annoying and frustrating regardless if its virtual or not.

I think I see where you are going with this. And it did give me pause, for a moment. For one thing, it's an example, but mostly it doesn't automatically get my back up, because it's not rude. I'm always perfectly happy to consider another point of view, when presented to me like I have some sense. I think you are saying here that yes, this restaurant person above, is living out 'their' SL. But not considering the experiences of anyone else, and those other people are also trying to enjoy THEIR SL experience. And being so focused on 'yours' could make someone else's bad. Maybe that's just how I am reading it though. That's what I'm getting out of your post. I can incorporate that way of thinking, I think, anywhere except on my own land, when people think they have 'rights'. There, yeah it's all about me, me, me, as I am the one paying for it. But elsewhere yeah, share the joy.

How is that not a business? Remember....the prices are outrageous....350L for the Lobster and Filet. 150L a bottle for wine. Dessert, 150L. Snooty waiter gets a 300L tip.

Tier fee is only 800 a week...so the owner pockets some money and cashes it in....snooty waiter cashes his tips in.

Exactly what "amount" of lindens do you have to make to classify what you're doing as a business? A lot of people merely break even with tier fee....are you telling them that what they are doing is not a legitimate business in SL?

Where do you draw the line at fantasy? I mean, I can use a few power tools in RL....but I can't build a sofa....so it's pretty much fantasy then. I don't wear ball gowns to the office in RL....but I do to the store in SL. I have to tolerate consistent complainers in RL....but here, I can tell them to F Off and move on.....

So my business is classified as Fantasy now? And not legit? Not worth tossing into the equation with those who play it EXACTLY like a RL business? What if I make more money than you do? Would that make it legit? What exactly is that amount of money?

Where's the line? What's the difference? And most importantly....who cares?

Where I'm going with this......is that some are placing moral and ethical judgments, rules, restrictions, expectations, confinements, limitations.....the list goes on.....on how you run your business here.....if you're not doing it exactly as your average forum member approves of......you're a shyster, scum, con man, low life, cheater, spammer, abuser, gamer, what have you.....

.....in other words some are placing those judgments on how you play the game. And face it...it's pretty much a game. If you want to come here and duplicate RL...power to you.....but some people come here to change it up.....would venture to say that the majority do.

Yeah, some days I get caught up in my store activities, and it's a Real Job....but then something bizarre happens that brings me back to reality and reminds me this is all mechanical....pretty much all a game.....pretty much a free for all on how to play it......regardless of how much money you make.

I think some forget that. And that's where the consistent complaining enters in .....and why they are consistently annoyed. They can't control some of the variables here, as they can in RL (as if they can control those too - no they can't).....and they can't make it work here, just as they would like it to work in RL....so they end up with a lot of frustrations and annoyances.

If those frustrations and annoyances are really vocal....consistently.....someone who is having a great time running their SL business the way they want to.....might be inclined to start changing it up to meet others' requirements and expectations......not realizing that they are listening to the ranting of a very small percentage....

Happens here, every day.

Loosen up the tie a bit....that's pretty much what most people come here to do.

Yes

Some say misery loves company. A cliche, but true. Sitting on a stool, annoyed, is nowhere near as much fun as sitting on a stool in a group of other people, all equally annoyed, taking comfort in their annoyed state from one another and feeling they are justified in their annoyance.

However, having said that, there are a great many of us who shrug and see being annoyed as a waste of time (we're the ones silently "doing our thing". But one must maintain perspective -- those who are expressing their annoyance may be going through some sort of catharsis that, in the end, is very therapeutic to their well-being and perhaps not really a waste of time in the scheme of their existence.

As for drama -- such a can of worms. I abhor drama and yet for a long time observed it happen around me, affecting me even though I did not wish it to. The cure? Step back... way back... or buy an Island or four and create, maintaining contact with the non-drama inducing contingent among us.

There are things that are allowed by the software that are annoying, there are things that are allowed by the software that are destructive. It doesn't matter whether you're running a business or playing a game, it's rude to do the annoying things, and it's unfair to everyone to do the destructive things. Pointing out that some of the things people are doing are bad for everyone isn't telling them "exactly how to do" anything.

They are annoying to YOU, Argent

You're deliberately missing the point.

Sorry about that....for a minute there, I thought you were making my whole point.

Could you be more specific? I took your point to mean that if I did something that annoys you....you will consider that rude......and so will "everyone" else......and you will all become annoyed.....and you will be the judge of what is annoying.

How do you know those things are bad for "everyone" ??? How do you know that they are bad for more people than the dozen that you saw complaining about them?

Noo. It has little to do with the amount of money, but intent. I am saying that, at least from the way you are presenting it, it is more the indulgence of a fantasy than a business. It is intentionally so. What do you do if the patrons don't pay? Do you even care? Why?

You see, if the whole point of doing it is just for your own self-gratification, then it is a hobby and not a business.



In what sense? In the context of your example, I draw the line, again, where one does it more for oneself than for others. Where self-indulgence ends, and having to deal with real people, even in virtuo, begins.

None of the examples you give are absolutes in either medium. You CAN build a sofa, wear ball gowns to the office, and tell people you don't like to take a hike in RL. It simply requires a will to do so and a determination to live with the results, either in RL OR SL.



As I said before, it is not solely about the amount of money. If you're doing it solely for yourself, then it's not really a business.



What makes a business a business includes these (arguably, most important) elements:

1) Offering a product or service to other people/businesses
2) Being compensated for doing 1) by someone (not necessarily the same people people receiving the product/service)
3) Having a desire to succeed in some quantifiable measure.
4) Being willing to compete with other businesses for the same resources (customers, material inputs, employees, money)

When it becomes about dealing with real people (even in virtuo) and real money, people start having the expectation that, if they pay for something, they should get that something (ie, not be defrauded of their money), and feel justified in complaining if they don't get what they pay for. Similarly, if they play by standard business rules to compete for shared resources, they shouldn't have to operate at a disadvantage because someone else decides NOT to abide by the rules. Note that the rules don't have to be etched in stone; there are such things as ethical behavior in business, which are rarely made into law, but businesses generally pay just as much respect to those ethics as the laws that do exist, because it impacts them in indirect and/or intangible ways, such as reputation.

Even when it comes to multiplayer games (disclaimer: I am a game developer), it is critically important to make games balanced and fair for all players, or you simply lose them. For single-player games, it doesn't matter if the player cheats, because the only person he/she is hurting is himself/herself. However, in multiplayer games, cheating directly impacts other players, so it behooves the game developer to institute technical and policy barriers to curb cheating.

Those that cheat will always do better in the game than those who don't cheat. Cheating affects people's enjoyment of a game because it can do anything from deny service and/or resources to other players, to damage the game itself, to making the game less enjoyable to other players.

When it comes right down to it, complaining is the result of people's expectations not being met in situations beyond their control. If their expectations are reasonable, then they should be met. If they aren't reasonable, then it can be explained to them as to why they won't be met.



Some people pay their RL mortgages with this "game", so I wouldn't just dismiss it out-of-hand as "forgetting it is just a game". For you, it may be; for others, it is pretty much their RL. Either way, I would tend to think that you wouldn't want someone to damage your ability to do business (or have fun) because they cheated. For example, do you care if someone comes along, copies all your stuff (as in copyright infringement), then puts it into a BIAB and sells it to hundreds of other people? Would you just say "meh; it's just a game; I don't care", or would you complain (rather loudly) about it (in addition to filing the appropriate paperwork to stop them)?

Even still, just because you may not doesn't abrogate someone else's reasonable expectation to not be subjected to that kind of behavior, nor their right to complain about it in seeking redress when that expectation isn't met.



If someone is having a great time running their business which is screwing over other people, be they customers, other businesses, or the residents in general, then they should be made to change. Some things are simply wrong. Most times, having a conscience, or simply thinking beyond one's self is all that is required to keep from violating not only laws/rules, but also ethics. If people want to play SL like it is a single-player game, that's fine; they can box themselves up on their own little private island and block off access to everyone else, and then be almost completely free to indulge their fantasies. However, once they come off that island and start interacting with other people, there are some rules that have to be observed, not all of them necessarily in the ToS/CS.

No.

How do you know that stealing is wrong? How do you know that punching someone in the face hurts? How do you know that building your house partly over your property line and onto the neighbor's property is a bad thing?

Experience. Empathy. Conscience. Consideration. Concern. Maturity.

You don't necessarily need to hear someone complain about something to know that it is wrong or "bad for everyone".

Before I can comment on anything.....is that definition....

1) Your Definition of RL Business
2) A Definition from a business manual on RL Business
3) Your Definition of SL business
4) A definition from the SL blog, web site, or something similar to TOS

So you and Argent will be the ones to decide this.....even when it starts getting into the gray areas.

No, you're still misreading my comment.

I fear I may have used advanced sentence structure. Two subclauses are too much for you?

I generally quit conversing with someone when they take a condescending pot shot like that.

You're welcome to try again.

It is my personal interpretive presentation of what you will find in many references concerning "elements of business". Not all references contain those (or in that exact form), some contain those and more, but those are commonly-listed elements of what makes a business a business, both in my research, and my experience of running them.

Regardless, they are true to the essence of the point, and form a good enough "working definition" for the sake of argument.

Talarus....can you not see that you might be stepping on a few toes, by using that definition?

And I don't mean just in SL either....

Why would we have to decide for anyone else whether these things are wrong? The point being made is that they are self-evident. If they aren't, then there's something horribly wrong.

When it gets to the "gray areas", we're happy to build consensus, and then take it to the "government" for redress. However, if we feel we have good cause to believe that something is wrong and/or hurtful, we're going to proceed to speak out against it with conviction. Why would anyone expect any less? I certainly wouldn't expect you to hold your tongue if you felt wronged by something, or that something was just, in general, wrong. I'm not going to hand-wave away anyone's concerns with "why get upset? It's just a game!". Games can be no less intense and/or participative than RL. In the case of SL, they can be as important as RL in dealing with RL.