Bad news of the day: They're thinking of merging the Teen Grid into the main one

Who said this is going to be banned?



Right now there is an even higher risk because the teens are already here and there is no way to know and no way to protect yourself besides not engaging in any sexual conduct at all - with no one.



Or create a restricted, safe area for verified adults.

Giving the history, I trust the G-Teams incliniation for checking facts before shooting innocent residents and the existence of something called "common sense" within the G-Team as far as I can throw the Statue of Liberty.

About the kids joining SL...

Really couldn't care less.

Already posted, but from the Philip Rosedale interview at http://www.metanomics.net/transcript011909:

"There’s an inability for educators to easily interact with people in there because we’ve made it an exclusively teen only area. Parents can’t join their kids in Second Life so problems like that are ones that we think are pretty fundamental and need to be fixed. We need to stop creating isolated areas that are age specific and, instead, look at how we can make the overall experience appropriately safe and controlled for everybody. So that’s the general direction that we’re taking there."

Like the vast majority of adults, I don't have any desire to interact socially with children (or teenagers if you prefer a distinction there). "Appropriately safe and controlled for everybody [including children]"??? You can count me the hell OUT...not because my SL activities are particularly scandalous, but because thinking about what is and isn't appropriate for children is NOT in my job description and certainly not what I'm paying for.

If LL wants to fully explore the possibilities of youth education and RL-family togetherness - I'm sure the kids on the teen grid are just DYING to hang around with their parents in SL - then they can damn well experiment with the rules of the teen grid.

Not really. That would prevent parents from taking their kids into a restaurant that served alcohol. Kids can go into a bar, they can even work there, they just can't handle the alcohol in part or in whole (depending on the jurisdiction) or order it. At least them's the rules. In Maryland I've yet to hear of an ID check where at least a third of the places tested don't fail it. Its like what you hear going into a jail: you're here 8 hours, they're here 24 and thinking how to beat the system, so don't cross the lines, ever. Underage kids, once they decide to beat the system, will spend as much time and try it as often as necessary to beat it. People simply trying to run a business don't have enough time to stop every teen. You simply need a bright clear line that says, "I followed the rules." LL better provide that line.

Then , do what any non nevrotic parent should do, take care of your kids, and let other parents care about their, and let those that don't care, not care.

Not my job to care about yours or anybody else's kids. I decided to keep childrens of the equation that is my life and i'm gonna keep doing this.

Not a relevant factor to me.

I don't want only two sides for this issue as in the "good child bearer side" and the "evil abuser side", i want a 3rd side, the side of the peoples like me that simply do not care about the issue and will still enjoy SL the way they always did before, with kids or without kids.

Laws about child protection should never be passed by child bearing peoples, they are too emotionally biased to have a careful judgement on this kind of problems. That's exactly how we get stupid laws that sue a kid for pedophilia because he received a cellphone picture of his (same age) girlfriend while she is sued for production of pedophile content.

SO much crap makes me want to puke.

For goodness sake please limit them to a particular continent rather than letting them loose on the mainland.
Think of the adults, we're the ones paying tier remember....................

Even if designated *safe* areas were cordoned off for teens....how long do you think it would take the teens to figure out "hey this is better than teen grid....so that means the uncensored part must be even better!...let's create some alt accounts and use Mommy or Daddy's ID (in the event of mandatory age verification) and wreak some havoc on the main grid!". I'm not going to address the issue of sexual predators as it's been done to death, it exists and it's sickening, but as also pointed out, there are a lot of false claims and accusations made too. Bigger can of worms than I want to dive into.

Economically, I think LL is trying to justify the merger with a better portfolio vision of utopia. Personally, if I have kids running around, have to watch my mouth, and cross my t's and dot my I's ....why am I here...I already have a first life. Economically for me and many other vendors there could be a huge affect. Content theft is already rampant, and cannot be controlled because of global issues. A DMCA does squat for a resident in a country that doesn't recognize intellectual property rights. So they have their account cancelled...whoopee. You know they'll be inworld the next day with a new character and all their good ready to do business again. Now.....couple that with minors who really don't care about breaking the law as it doesn't affect them once they go legal...and we've just increased our losses. Even a small percentage which is what it would represent is a step in the wrong direction, and LL can tout their acquisition of Xstreets all they want as the established content providers will move on. For a small time vendor like me who got HOSED when LL decided to flood the market with mainland and OpenSpaces, I've already lost a few thousand dollars...and I wish it was Lindens so it wouldn't sting so much. LL is controlling the economics of SL without a thought to the losses incurred by those who've paid LL's bills and wages and without warning at that.

Anyways...if you thought having a few childish 20 somethings shooting it up and griefing and orbiting people was bad....wait til you get an influx of script kiddies...and like I said and has been pointed out..they don't care about the damage they cause..the more the better...their rep grows and they have more hits on Youtube than your aunt Tilly falling on her keester at your wedding. The real world impact would be negative even if only slight occurances happened...one or two sexual predator cases.......respectable content providors going under...and the boat will rock until it tips.

Ok, dad always said, if you're gonna bitch and complain, then at least provide a solution, even if it's the wrong one. So here goes........

Three separate grids ..what a surprise. Linden Labs has touted on Secondlifegrid.net that SL is the perfect platform for business, education, and development. Private enterprise has always furthered education through funding. Previously it was said that teens would need access to say for example a college course offered on the main grid. Hmm...why not make a proposed education grid the designated safe area where adults and minors can mingle and learn together. Oversee it so that everyone acts accordingly and let private enterprise pay for it in exchange for other services. The teens aren't happy in their little cage called teen grid? Then knock out a wall and make their bedroom bigger, and get them a Wii instead of playing on pong! Improve the platform and stability of the teen grid, make it enjoyable for them. C'mon...I'm sure private enterprise could be coaxed into helping fund the teen grid. and more than likely some are, but you need to convince more. Having educational recruiters from various accredited institutions keeping an eye on things and prospects could have some interesting and positive results. Imagine, a new venue for possibly getting that scholarship to that school you can't afford.

Two years ago, there were some big names behind SL and some bigger names looking to become part of SL, those names have moved on unimpressed by both the vision of LL and the uncertain economic aspect of such a venture. If it was that plain for them to see....what does LL posess in their infinite wisdom to keep making irrational (at least to us) decisions? SL should remain divided because you can't expect to alienate a significant part of your user base and expect them to either cow down or replace them with people more in line with your vision, after all they should have been here by now. This is a huge gamble on LL's part especially with more and more alternatives developing and it will not be long until one surpasses SL, after all..where was Opensim a year ago and where is it now?

in the words of my favorite commercial....
choose wisely

...I think I have an idea.

It's a Minsky's moment - or more specifically, an application of it to management rather than to economics. It's the same effect that brought on the mortgage crisis.

When things are good, market actors take on greater and greater risk, gambling more and more, less and less worrying about the consequences of failure. Eventually, when they actually fail, it inevitably happens when having risked the most, which results in total disaster.

(I quite like that.)
But that's what pretty much everybody on this thread has been fussing about: the *risk* to adults that is posed by the hysteria that destroys lives first and asks questions later. People would very much prefer to just not care, as you advocate--that is, there's almost perfect agreement with you about that. But what I, at least, don't understand is how we'll have the luxury of not caring, in a merged grid.

Or, rather, I don't understand that *yet*. If LL does the right thing, yeah, it can work. And honestly, I want teens to be able to access some Main Grid content, and for Main Grid adults to generate content that teens find relevant. Also, I'm not worried about the kids being annoying or immature: I've met a few "recent graduates" from the Teen Grid, and they're all we could expect of any resident; I don't think they just got instant maturity on their 18th birthdays.

But LL can't screw this one up, or nobody will be able to afford the liability of being in-world. One sure way they could screw it up would be to rely on the travesty that was IDV age verification. Reading the language around that, it was clear that LL was trying to indemnify itself for any lapses by making parcel owners exclusively responsible for age-appropriate content. If they try to pass the buck again, no sane person would accept it. There's just way too much to lose.

Wow.
They're teenagers, not toddlers, people. They're not going to be throwing tantrums in your club, screaming down mall aisles because they didn't get candy, or drooling/pooping/throwing up on your prized.. er.. sexbed?
If you think they'll all be out to falsely report you for paedophilia and ruin your record, you are far, far too paranoid to be using the Internet.

There are sooo many awesome, imaginative young minds that could make SL a better experience. Letting teens in would bring in a whole new culture and way of thinking. C:

Yeah, yeah, I'll get off your lawn now...

Well maybe it's because i'm not an US citizen but i don't see any way i could get problems.

I guess that's because i'ma a fetishist, i'm much more interested in shiny materials and tieing you up than having sex.

Heh Children are already here in the Mian grid. Its too easy to get in at any age. The teen grid is pretty much crap so of course they will come over here.

They are going to be here regardless Unless they force age verification on everyone. They really can't do that because it is such a global market with a wide range of Internet laws that DO apply.
From what I gather from conversations is that they will be allowed to access PARTS of the main grid. Not all.
Age verification does not work. Even if it did, there is a great number of people who don't or won't submit ID for some reason or another.
Would be nice to have an ALLOW TEENS Or Not Allow button, but what good is that if the system is lax enough for 5 year olds to participate without age governing.

look at this last Christmas Vacation time.. As soon as kids got out of School for the 2 or 3 week holiday. SL was busy as hell . Numbers were up quite a bit . that should be a pretty good indication of the amount of kids already in the main grid.. I don't think it will hurt much if any if they do. I just have a hard time seeing kids in here with the vast amount of Sexual Content in here. But who cares. it's not my kid. hahahaha

I care because I know what kids are like through having my own, and I know just how easy it is for them to make bad decisions, and the people who get hurt by those bad decisions aren't always just the kids.

I don't want to see 15 year olds officially on the main grid for the same reason I don't want to see 15 year olds with driving licenses. Or I want to see a rational legal and regulatory environment, but when you have kids being charged with producing kiddy porn of themselves for sending a picture to their boyfriends I know how bloody likely that is.

verification does not work online

I repeat verification does not work online


If you can not confirm who is at the keyboard 24/7 there is no verification system that will work.

Little billy can sneak dad's Driver's license and verify... he can even make copys on the all in one printer so when he gets Age Ar'd he can send them in.

As adults arent we suppost to be roll modals ?

Yes, but it's nice to take a break from role modeling when I come to SL.

But we are not paid to babysit teenagers by parents who chose to let the fancy computer raise the kids while they go elsewhere and not do their job as parents.

There are places in rl where adults go to get away from the kids, SL is one of those places online... for now anyway.

There's a math geek joke in there somewhere, but...

My opinion is that you can't shield kids from everything, so better let them get burned and learn from their own mistakes.
It's how we do, why can't this apply to anything under 18 years old?

Unfortunately the way the laws work, the kid isn't the one burned.

It's the adults they interact with that gets burned while the media and laws treat the kids as the victim till proven otherwise... then the adult gets an oops my bad and left to deal with the ruined reputation and life.

Um, you DO know that most consumer accounts have dynamic IP addresses, right? And that banning the IP won't mean banning the PERSON, and that banning the IP may ban some TOTALLY INNOCENT person the next day? Or ban everyone behind a common firewall? Or hotel? Or wifi service? Or ....

No, sorry, that idea is just not practical. Not at all.

That said, as a sim owner, I do agree we need much better tools - not just in banning, but all other aspects of estate ownership.

Well, eventually. A lot of consumers, especially households, use a router that will hold the IP longer, sometimes for months. However it is entirely possible that same household will change their IP right after they log off, for whatever reason, like network problems. So it certainly isn't a great way to do it. I'm guessing most fixed IPs are associated with adults, not teens.

Well I was explaining how the ban by ip could work.

I'd personally want to ban by hardware/mac, baring that by an Operating system key (if possible, would work with windows which has a unique ID per install)

They merge the grids...

...then they will do what all the MMO's are starting to do, confirm your location, and your account with a valid credit/debit card.

Yes, its true though even kids can get a "kiddies only" debit card from their bank but hell will Linden Labs care? HELL NO THEY WONT! LL will see it as more potential income for their grubby little hands and all the while the kids are streaming into SL and news broadcasters like Fox will have a field day with "Second Life - A Haven for Pedos?" type headlines further corrupting and degrading the Second Life brand.

If i didnt know any better i would think that Mark Kingdon is actually TRYING to ruin SL on purpose.

Someone big has to step in and take over Linden Labs while at the same time sacking idiots like Kingdon...LL needs a spring clean.