Is it illegal to use mega prim on mainland?
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Larrie Lane
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Join date: 9 Feb 2007
Posts: 667
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02-06-2009 06:18
From: Qie Niangao As I read Phil's post, he's saying "no [it's not illegal]". I wish they'd come out and at least officially *allow* them, Mainland too, until they make them standard output of the editor (up to... well, I'd say 256m, but could live with 12  . We need to quit finding so many other things that demand Andrew's attention. Qie, my understanding of this is until a way can be found to deal with parcel encroachment then mega's will not be made public. In the meantime the general use of them is overlooked and when some are used for abusing or are causing encroachment they are being dealt with on a call by call (Ar'ed) basis so to speak. The talk is as well that their sizes will be limited, I cannot remember if it will be a max of 256 or 128 but I think the latter would be the preferred. Before I started building with mega's I did a little research and found several blogs with one of the lindens discussing this with others whose job it was to test various issues relating to them, I cannot remember the blog link unfortunately but from what I read it was pretty obvious that it is unnecesssary to limit their use now as they will become part of the norm in the near future. So they are neither Illegal or legal, if you are going to use them the best advice so far is follow the simple rules that Winter posted. |
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Maelstrom Janus
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02-06-2009 06:21
From: Ceera Murakami Or they are willfully ignoring the problems they cause... Like a landlord who doesn't care how many people cram into one of their apartments, even though most landlords would limit it at some sane value.
Or since they have virtually no users and no assets on their grid, it isn't much of an issue for them... yet... But that does not say it won't cause problems later, when they actually have a fully-operational grid tat is well-populated.
Similar points could be raised on sim prim count limits. LL says it isn't safe to exceed 15,000 per sim, but some OS Grid owners feel they "know better" and crank their sims up to 45K Prims per sim. It would be interesting to compare sim performance stats when/if anyone actually fills their alternative grid sim that full. Assuming they can, before the server crashes or is paralyzed. Or when/if they actually get a number of overstuffed sims on-line that even vaguely come close to the number of sims that LL is dealing with, instead of the few hundred that the largest of them have now. once again you say they cause problems ... what problems ?? Being with a large group of people in sl causes more lag for me than megaprims ever have..so whats the solution there ? Ban People ?
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Phil Deakins
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Join date: 17 Jan 2007
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02-06-2009 06:24
From: Maelstrom Janus can you show me where in the rules it specifically says so... Nope. Nobody can show you where in the rules it specifically says one thing or the other. But my post said that it is *not* illegal to use them, and I think you misread it. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
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02-06-2009 06:27
Megaprims don't cause problems. I think that, as with other things, people hang on to rumours and historical conditions, and believe them to be true.
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Maelstrom Janus
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02-06-2009 06:29
From: Phil Deakins Nope. Nobody can show you where in the rules it specifically says one thing or the other. But my post said that it is *not* illegal to use them, and I think you misread it. Ah I'll let you off then  
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Maelstrom Janus
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02-06-2009 06:34
From: Phil Deakins Megaprims don't cause problems. I think that, as with other things, people hang on to rumours and historical conditions, and believe them to be true. I think it's time for Lindens to up the permitted prim size AND increase the number of prims per plot. Maybe not to the vast number seen in other virtual worlds but certainly enough to allow more detailed builds. Perhaps then we might see less of the 'unpolished' look which seems to be proliferating at the moment....
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Tengu Yamabushi
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Quote (with permission), GTeam meeting 6 Aug. '08
02-06-2009 06:36
<Note to forum moderators: I _specifically_ asked for Zara's permission to quote her.>
Some back and forth and other folks comments snipped, but this is the meat of things:
[10:43] Zara Linden: yes, megaprims are allowed in mainland builds.
[10:44] You: Zara, may I quote you?
[10:44] Zara Linden: sure, it is public knowledge
Hope this helps.
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Piggie Paule
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Join date: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 675
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02-06-2009 06:52
I'll tell you something I find REALLY annoying about Megaprims (and I'm sure you do also) is on the MINI MAP.
For some reason (perhaps someone here can explain) on the MINI MAP the blue area (for your build) or grey area (for others builds) often extends further than the physical size of the megaprim.
I used one recently 128x64 in size. but on the map it's shown in blue as 128x128
The end result is, when you look at the minimap often there days, all you can see is no detail, but just a mass of giant criss crossing grey blocks, all overhanging others land.
the block may be in your parcel but the MINIMAP shows half of it overhanging next door also.
This in turn blocks next doors view of their parcel contents
Thsi also does seem to depend on height and how far you are away "Z" from the megaprims.
I wish this could be fixed as I'm noticing it a LOT more now, than just 6 months ago.
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LittleMe Jewell
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Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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02-06-2009 07:29
From: Piggie Paule I'll tell you something I find REALLY annoying about Megaprims (and I'm sure you do also) is on the MINI MAP.
For some reason (perhaps someone here can explain) on the MINI MAP the blue area (for your build) or grey area (for others builds) often extends further than the physical size of the megaprim.
I used one recently 128x64 in size. but on the map it's shown in blue as 128x128
The end result is, when you look at the minimap often there days, all you can see is no detail, but just a mass of giant criss crossing grey blocks, all overhanging others land.
the block may be in your parcel but the MINIMAP shows half of it overhanging next door also.
This in turn blocks next doors view of their parcel contents
Thsi also does seem to depend on height and how far you are away "Z" from the megaprims.
I wish this could be fixed as I'm noticing it a LOT more now, than just 6 months ago. One possibility for this - is the blue indicating the actual xyz size before path cuts and slicing? I just recently discovered that one of the blocks of my house, which is physically seen as 25x25x10 is really a 50x50x50 megaprim that has path cuts and slicing to reduce its size. So it is possible that the little bit of blue that I see going past my land border is representing that true xyz size.
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Ceka Cianci
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Join date: 31 Jul 2006
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02-06-2009 07:57
the only place i have ever noticed encroachment of a mega prim was on my own mini map with my mega prims.. i don't see anyone elses void edges of their mega prims.
I zoned off some areas and put the megas right on the edges of the lines and the only time they registered on another lot against the other prim count was if the center point was close to the line on a sliced prim..
the void area was pretty deep into the other lot before it showed..
my question is if it is not seen or is not physical and not causing any kind of obstruction in any way but the mini map in my viewer, is a mega prim's voided area that is over the line at all doing any harm or wrong to the lot next door?
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Piggie Paule
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Join date: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 675
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02-06-2009 08:00
From: LittleMe Jewell One possibility for this - is the blue indicating the actual xyz size before path cuts and slicing? I just recently discovered that one of the blocks of my house, which is physically seen as 25x25x10 is really a 50x50x50 megaprim that has path cuts and slicing to reduce its size. So it is possible that the little bit of blue that I see going past my land border is representing that true xyz size. I guessed it was something to do with what the megaprim USED to be, and due to the tweaking in the 1st place to make the Megaprim some part of it still exisits. I do hope that if they become official, then this will change. It's annoying when you can't see YOUR items as next doors Megaprim is covering part of your land (even though it's not) but as far as the minimap is concerned it is. |
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Ceka Cianci
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02-06-2009 08:03
i don't think you can see another persons mega prims on your mini map..only the physical parts i believe.
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
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02-06-2009 08:23
the minimap is broken.
ALL prims on the minimap, show up as square. If the prim is rectangular, it still shows up as a square. It seems to be a square that is "prim max dimension x prim max dimension".. so a 10x1 shows up as a 10x10.
Megaprims are just that much bigger. So even if they're only 20x1, they show up as 20x20 on the minimap.
It's a bad shortcut, in my opinion.. and I personally hope that they come up with something better.. especially now that phil and his team have made the "superfastwebmap".
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Piggie Paule
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Join date: 22 Jul 2008
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02-06-2009 08:40
From: Winter Ventura the minimap is broken.
ALL prims on the minimap, show up as square. If the prim is rectangular, it still shows up as a square. It seems to be a square that is "prim max dimension x prim max dimension".. so a 10x1 shows up as a 10x10.
Megaprims are just that much bigger. So even if they're only 20x1, they show up as 20x20 on the minimap.
It's a bad shortcut, in my opinion.. and I personally hope that they come up with something better.. especially now that phil and his team have made the "superfastwebmap". Ah, right, that explains it. I never actually thought of that before, but yes you are right. In the past I've used say a 32x32 megaprim and twisted it upright (like a wall) and put it on my parcel boundary, and it shows 31m over the boundary on the minimap As you say, it's just seems to be taking the max size and showing it as a square. Now I see. though I'm not exactly happy about it. To be honest, is does not matter as such. BUT what does matter is your view of your things can be blocked out by nextdoors megaprim on the minimap. Bit of a pain that. Oh, in the lastest (beta) version, have they fixed the Avatar height bug, which meant that someone VERY high, showed up as being low down? Also, what are the new? purple things on the minimap now? |
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Ceka Cianci
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Join date: 31 Jul 2006
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02-06-2009 08:48
From: Winter Ventura the minimap is broken.
ALL prims on the minimap, show up as square. If the prim is rectangular, it still shows up as a square. It seems to be a square that is "prim max dimension x prim max dimension".. so a 10x1 shows up as a 10x10.
Megaprims are just that much bigger. So even if they're only 20x1, they show up as 20x20 on the minimap.
It's a bad shortcut, in my opinion.. and I personally hope that they come up with something better.. especially now that phil and his team have made the "superfastwebmap". so if i make a wall that is .5 thick and put it on the line and it would show as on both lots? same as it would with a mega prim or this is just for mega prims? 10x10 would do the same on the mini map aswell i mean? |
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Ponsonby Low
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Join date: 21 May 2008
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02-06-2009 09:14
From: Maelstrom Janus I think it's time for Lindens to up the permitted prim size AND increase the number of prims per plot.
..And do it without raising tier. (We can dream, can't we?) |
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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02-06-2009 09:22
From: Maelstrom Janus Where did all this stuff about megaprims causing lag come from ...its rubbish.... The issues were, as I recall, mainly with large 100m spheres and some unpredictability with physics under Havok 1. This was essentially solved with Havok 4 (or making the darn things phantom), and was never a big issue with most megaprims.
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Smoke Gordonstone
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Join date: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 371
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02-06-2009 10:36
What about placing a large part of a mega underground? I have done this a lot...like if I needed 30m high with 1m thickness...but all I had was a 50m that would match up, I'll stuff the other 20m in the ground. I haven't seen any issues with it affecting my land, but could it possibly affect anything else in the sim? BTW....Winter, I use your megas a lot! I made as many as I could last year when the glitch happened, but not nearly as many as the sizes you have. Thanks |
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Argent Stonecutter
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02-06-2009 10:53
From: Winter Ventura
4. Don't "terraform the void".
Why not? Aggro is one of the coolest sims I've seen. |
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Argent Stonecutter
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02-06-2009 10:55
From: Ceera Murakami
Similar points could be raised on sim prim count limits. LL says it isn't safe to exceed 15,000 per sim, but some OS Grid owners feel they "know better" and crank their sims up to 45K Prims per sim.
That's irrelevant, they're completely different code bases. |
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Maelstrom Janus
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02-06-2009 11:06
From: Marianne McCann The issues were, as I recall, mainly with large 100m spheres and some unpredictability with physics under Havok 1. This was essentially solved with Havok 4 (or making the darn things phantom), and was never a big issue with most megaprims. I actually wonder if theres any need to make the large rocks we see around sl (typically sold by the marvellous Heart girls I believe) phantom anymore... personally I like the landscape to be substantial when I walk on it... for some reason passing through solid matter spoils second life exploration for me... ...unless Im using my TARDIS of course
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Argent Stonecutter
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02-06-2009 11:23
The problem with not making them phantom is the sculpt collision envelope doesn't match the sculpted surface, so you'll end up walking through or floating over them anyway.
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Cito Karu
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Join date: 23 Jul 2008
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02-06-2009 11:28
I believe the larger the prim it causes lag. for example I have one of those gigantic megaprims 65000x65000x65000 cubes and just rezzing that will crash a sim most times lol gotta be careful and not rez that one 
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Ceka Cianci
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02-06-2009 11:48
so does it have to do with the amount of space taken up in a sim or amount of prims?
would the lag created from say an 80x80x80 mega prim be the same as the amount of regular prims it took to make an 80x80x80?
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Cito Karu
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Join date: 23 Jul 2008
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02-06-2009 12:26
I think they balance out as far as I can tell on my own little parcel the amount of regular prims to make 80x80 id think would be equal to or slightly more than 1 80x80 mega I know very large megaprims like mentioned above can bring a sim to a halt quick. Used to play around on that crash me sim but I think that sim don't exist anymore. but really huge mega's cause lag, but I do use a 2 prim skybox at 2500m above my home on my parcel but it's just 2 20x20 mega's 1 at 20x20x1 and same one hollowed and linked with a iron fence alpha texture i call it my "mini sandbox" -grin- edited to add my 2 megaprim skybox is on mainland for like past 6 months with no problem, never been returned or heard a peep out of anyone. Course it is at 2500m so yea..
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