Racism is tolerated

I'd like to know if someone can tell me if Linden Labs tolerate clear expression of Racism by it's residents.

Me and friends have send many reports of someone that has a shop near the Bear Infohub and regularly expresses his racist believes to everyone at the infohub.
Since he is still in world, it seems to show that Linden Labs does indeed tolerate Racism.

This is a sad and disturbing fact.

I know however that this person has a great deal of land, so does this mean that Linden Labs bends their own rules when money is involved, or is their no rule against intolerable behavior at all?

Clearly LL is hiding behind their own made up policies, hiding to have the guts to speak to someone directly when it really is of a serious matter. Such as the example of a German Television station that visited LL and made one of their employees have their cheeks turned red after asking a direct and normal question about the weird things that are going on in world.

I love this Second Life world, it has great potential. It has great people in it. And it's a glimpse of the future for as it fills in a need for people to communicate in a different matter and to express their talents in building and arts.

But when you start to look the other way from people that bring their believes in world and disease or hurt other people with, in this case racism, but in other cases the fact that still minors can login and be confronted with perverted old men who mess up their mind, I think that Linden Labs is on the wrong track.

when you're sending in ARs ..are you copying local chat..do that...copy tons of it. I really don't see LL putting up with something so obviously against TOS.

~Lana

Yes, i did a chat copy, so did 3 other people that i know off. All send in AR's.
I even spoke to a Linden asking if they were doing something about it.

But,

The guy is STILL THERE

Still venting his patriotic american-we-are-the-best and all foreigners should be deported chats.

I am not against the USA, but these people are not a very good example of their residents.

Of course, I am against racism of any kind, however, suppose someone were to proclaim in-world that they thought America was the "best" and that foreigners should be deported - as ignorant as that may sound - is that actually violating the TOS?

"american-we-are-the-best" is not in my view racist, misguided and innacurate perhaps, but not racist. Certainly I do not, as a non-American, feel it as such.

"all foreigners should be deported" is racist, IF that is exactly what he is saying, and is clearly against TOS I would have thought.


LL has certainly jumped on other issues that have similarities, for instance the ban on any Nazi imagery, even if used in an anti-Nazi context. If they are ignoring this, it suggests either a radical shirt in policy or that they simply do not take the same view of it as you do.


I don't think the attempt to drag in the whole kids/ageplay/pedophile debate helps you make your point, by the way.

Well, don't hang me on my words here, that's just a tiny bit of what he said.
Actually it's about a page full of what he thinks about foreigners and what to do with them.

I gladly post the chat, but I probably get banned for 'privacy reasons'

What makes you wonder is, if someone like that deserves privacy.

Your right Wulfric. But it was merely meant as an example of some ethical problems aside from this Racism fact, which does not contribute to a better Second Life, nor First Life to be honest. The sick minded are everywhere, but if you have some means to control a bit of the extremities, you should do so, in my opinion.

Anyway, this is a portion of the chat. Think I should not leave his name out, it feels wrong protecting his privacy... but oh well...

[10:53] RR: we need bags for the foreigners
[10:53] RR: they are ugly
[10:53] RR: and they stink
[10:54] RR: Is it a crime to be a racist?
[10:54] RR: my ancestors would have fucked you guys too
[10:55] RR: whats wrong with racism anyway?
[10:55] RR: LOL
[10:56] RR: everyone like their own people best
[10:56] RR: everyone else can fuck off
[10:57] RR: you're prolly all 3 child molesters too
[10:58] RR: i understand that foreigners are assholes
[10:59] RR: its too bad we cant deport foreigners in SL
[11:00] RR: but maybe we're not from Assholio
[11:00] RR: like those creeps

I absolutely agree with you, clearly racist, clearly against TOS, should be AR'd and should be banned or at least have it made very clear that any repetition will lead to a ban.

And yeah, why protect his privacy, but you have to cover your own back.

"The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

Och aye, awa' wi' yon Edinburgh Festival

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

Ah hit me old mother over the head with a shillelagh

The Irishman now our contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen, or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third!

The English are noble, the English are nice,
And worth any other at double the price

Ah, iechyd da

The Welshman's dishonest and cheats when he can
And little and dark, more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp in his hat
And he sings far too loud, far too often, and flat!

And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much
Of the French and the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed!

The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.

And all the world over, each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!

The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest.

It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!

For the English are all that a nation should be,
And the flower of the English are..."

-------------------------------------------Cherry and Me! )

oh here we go again..........why is it this time of year bring out this issues? I know because its people term paper time and then need to do their reports for school.......

Hi Saii,

I agree, clearly racist and you did the right thing in ARing.

At the end of the day though, they are what they are. Clearly not too intelligent, clearly frustrated with their position and powerlessness in RL, and using SL for the same purpose that many of its residents seem to.

While you wait on LL to do what they do, I suspect pity is the most natural emotion with which to react. Also the most galling to them, which is just an added bonus...

Obviously, while I would never recommend such a thing, given their obvious .. well let's just say vulnerabilities.. I suspect it would be easy to find various ways to mitigate their unpleasantness or in fact make their Second Life pretty unliveable in return.

Ok I know, childish and inadvisable, but at the end of the day.. SL is recreation, they're apparently enjoying theirs.. go out and enjoy yours..

And if these are truly Americans "I am sorry and I apologise as an American" They clearly do not get the point of what it means to be an American.

~Lana Tomba

YAY!!

OK so that is also going on my profile, my ego needs all the inflating it can get since it's practically non existent most of the time.

You missed out enough sheep abuse comments though

***

Seriously, AR is the key. The more ARs, the more LL can act. However, whislt "the foreigners" is XENOPHOBIC, unless it is aimed at a specific group it is not racist.

The guy is guilty of being an asshat, looking at the posted transcript. The cure for THAT is mute ... mute is your friend ... cos LL can not reasonably accuse him of racism and their actual response should be (unless there's clear racism happening) "Mute him".

On the other hand when there have been genuine offensive avatars they are removed. There was one I AR'd which was particularly offensive to Jewish people (no I am not Jewish, I am just not an asshat or a big fan of asshat) which I reported and which was gone within literally 5 minutes as a ton of other people didn't find wandering around calling yourself after the Holocaust particularly funny either.

Xenophobia=the fear of strangers.

Great word!!

~Lana

I dunno. He is definitely being a jerk, but being a jerk isn't a crime in SL, if it were a lot would be guilty. As previously stated if he were singling a particular ethnic group, or nationality, or perhaps espusing the ideals of a certain Dictator Who Must Not be Named, I'd be more apt to lay an AR on him, but if he was speaking in just gerneralities,Id probably just point and laugh and walk away. But nothing wrong with dropping a note on the slug. Enough people do it and he may be scrutinized by the Providers. That type of talk is goinfg to go on when you have people from around the world coupled with Internet Annonymity.

If they are just talking, "Mute" works wonders. I have quite a few people muted and have no issues.

I thought it was fear of that Cheesy TV show that was on a few years ago.

I am not sure if there is shortage of Linden's to keep up with those who are reported breaking rules...
Or if time is spent on those who have the highest tier fees.
And/or a bit of both.
The 'criminals' make false reports as well, for the purpose of bogging this help system created with good intentions.
I think the more land one owns, should put them to the top of the list, when reports are filed. Then this does not put them in a class of the untouchables who can break rules and get away with it.

I wonder, why do the same things break over and over? It is fixed, then broke again. Sometimes I do not find issue on site, and most times, I do not even know how to explain within the boundries of the bug window...lol anyone else know what I mean?

I find the greed in this world, unaddressed. As with other issues. This is our world, and we must find means to stop the cliques, gangs, perversions, thefts, and all criminal behavors.
Many of the greedy, use our hard earned money, to keep themselves supplied in drugs.

Citizens organizing honest programs, are infiltrated with those who use the idea, in order to confuse and discredit those with integrity.
Look at the laisions...i see many of them belonging and acting on behalf of those they serve. Many, just to be accepted with the popular cliques.
This undermines the original values set. Words are easy to say, to fool others.
I have also seen and experienced, a few Linden's, who break the rules, and one particular one, recieved every report I made on this particular griefing which was an on going scam to get my land.
I have on notecard and on web site which cannot be crashed, his friends, bragging about having Linden friends.

An example of something which recently happened to me...which saddened me, to know we live among people in flesh world and in virtual worlds.
At one shop, i found a gown I liked. It came in 12 colors, each over1200L's.
I had already spent quite a bit, but I asked how much it would cost to get the set of 12 colors.
Knowing, there are huds in which will change colors, but liking this particular dress.
Of course she makes more money selling them individually, but in the long run, she would make better, and gain a reputation for being a fair and caring person.

I spent a total of L$18432. I could have bought in flesh world, these jammies which are popular to wear in or out, and very warm and comfortable...could have bought 3 sets with this money I spent.
I am ill, so dressing up in sl is a past time for me.

She did not have the sets priced as sets. The price she gave me for 12 colors, was too high, so I asked how much 6 colors would be. L$7800. I said yes, and started deciding the colors.
Turns out, the colors do not look as they do in the snapshots shown in stores. Two of the colors are nearly the same, with different names. For this price, there is also no snapshot included in the sets.
I have bought outfits for one L, which had snapshots.

There is no modify, so no ability to change the color myself.
The silver is a dull silver, sure would have looked better shiny.

She rushed me, which should not have been so, for customer service should be important.

She has loads of friends, her group is good sized.
I am no longer afraid to speak, afraid of the griefings...I gave up my land, so what can these sorts of people do now? Follow me? Stalk me? Who cares at this point in time...I do know one thing, they would not show up face to face, flesh to flesh...they hide behind a character...oh so sad.

Sadder yet, is the honest and talented creators...I know one in particular who supports his children, and he gives fair prices, good product, decent service, though I have bought lots of his product, with no problem ever...
So we have a world, in which we can live, and enjoy, only these creepy people, are bent on destruction, not realizing they have already destroyed themselves.

So what do we do with these kind of instances?
Take our losses until we can take no more and quit like others have? Then the greedy can greed one another, and this puts out the honest business person.

Well if anyone has any idea, pass it on...for many of us, like this world, and find promise for a future...Sure helps in the winter time, and for someone disabled...
....but we must rid this world of the rats, the cockroaches and the heartless.

Oh and Saii, I agree with you, names should be changed to protect the innocent, not the guilty.

It is also so disheartening, for people of the u.s.a. to be racists. They forget their own heritage, and may not even be aware of their lineage.

A story I heard years ago, I did not know the person, but those speaking did. A prejudice man and his wife, moved to the south, in a kkk area. The felt a sense of belonging, being with people who thought as they did.
The ending of this story, the woman gets pregnant, and has a very black colored baby. The husband accused her, and she was picked on so badly, she left. The only black man who had been near her was a handyman, who did work. He was never found, but his family said he was fed to the aligators.
The man remarried. This time, a daughter of a kkk official.
Yes, u got the story...Her first child was black. Wonder if this man was fed to the aligators too?
BTW...You can go in the south, and speak with black folks...they will tell you the practice of feeding blacks to aligators, is still happening, and there is fear of this. There are many black people who are caught in the slavery still, in these times...the fears being held over then, the low pay, keeping them from leaving, and the lack of fight for flight, beaten into their souls.

This person, inworld, who you have had to hear his racial slurs, he/she needs to be dealt with and used as an example. But, we know these sorts, who run and hide when caught.

So wishing, LL would make another grid, called hell...for those who think they can break the rules of game, the rules of life...Let them live together, and make hell for each other, instead of those who have good use for this sl world we live.

Personally, I am sick of seeing them...and they have removed from me, my sense of pity and desire to help, for they do not want help...they think they are great.

In regards,
Darling

My goodness if you call that racism in SL you have not seen anything.

Welcome to Friday, Bri.

Well....that person is truly an idiot and as an American, it definitely embarrasses me to be associated with that kind of stupidity and ignorence.

The other side of this, however frustrating, is that in the US we have something called freedom of speech, which unfortunately gives folks a right to speak their minds on any issue they choose. It can get out of hand for sure...and often times we are left to tolerate things we would not personally choose to deal with. The same seems to apply in SL....if LL starts banning people because of racial, religious or political views....then, in fact, LL becomes exactly the thing they are banning.

If we are offended or harassed, we have the choice to mute people (sadly not the case IRL) and if we decide to engage them in an argument, then all we're doing is buying into their crap and allowing them to do exactly what they are trying to do, get under our skin. I haven't encountered anything quite so bold and nasty as what you describe....but when I do come across things that offend or otherwise bother me....I simply leave. If a person tried to engage me personally in some kind of argument.....I'll mute them. I'm in SL for fun.....if that's not on the conversational agenda, I'm not interested.

Reporting the person is a good idea.....but beyond that it's really up to each of us to maintain our own integrity and not become the thing we abhore. If you have no choice but to deal with a person like that, because of business or land issues.....I'd say keep it to a minimum...and maybe start looking around for other places to do business. If enough people exit this guys territory, he isn't going to be able to maintain......maybe he'll get the hint... but chances are he's using SL as his personal venting platform and, well... people do the same thing for positive reasons too...charities, fund raisers....

I'm not always so proud of my American brothers & sisters....but I do my best to be a good representation of my country...and I'm quite happy that I have the freedom to express myself here (like, you know, thinking our president is a moron) without being criminalized ... That guy's an idiot, but he also has the same freedoms as other Americans... *sigh* sooner or later he'll get what's coming to him I'm sure.

I agree with you completely Bri.


EDIT: Perhaps I am being too literal...and I know that the term racism can be read many ways, but:
I am american...does that make me part of the American Race? nope....WTH is the "American" race?

I wouldn't call them racist...I would call them ignorant and if they practice and eat right, perhaps even next years winner of the Darwin Award.

I'll proclaim it here... America IS the Best country to live in.

Yes, I want the illegal immigrants to go back home and do it right.

Of course these are my opinions and I am sure people from other countries can cite examples of why their country is better than the USA.

As far as SL is concerned the more the merrier. I want to learn about other people and other cultures. All are welcome no matter the race, religion, or country of origin.

"CX"

This isn't really racism so much as nationalism, which should also be kept out of SL.
A lot of people think whichever country they live in is 'the best' but generally they don't go round shouting about it! I came to SL from Britain, which I used to think was the best place, but now I think SL is the best place (or at least the Southern Continent, Jeogeot, where I live, is - not sure about the rest of the grid LOL).

Saii Hallard, I have seen your example problem on the grid many times before. Luckily, Linden Lab has supplied us Residents with various client tools enabling us to custom-tailor our experience while connected to the service. I recommend that whenever you meet someone in SL that expresses an opinion that does not align with what you already believe to be true, you immediately use the helpful Mute function. Mute will ensure you no longer have to listen to those differing opinions, even if you are visiting or in close proximity to his or her considerable land holdings in the vast virtual world of Second Life.

Warning: unlike in Second Life, reality does not have a mouse-clickable Mute option. In reality, due to varying concepts of personal liberty, you may at times find yourself in the unavoidable presence of differing opinion.

In reality, if you are suddenly confronted with speech or typographical information that challenges your personal preconceptions, enter an opinionated state of mind loop while seeking the closest emergency exit. In extreme circumstances, ward off dangerous concepts by loudly repeating denial statements to reinforce and counterapply your own beliefs, scaling up to (in a worst-case scenario) emitting randomly selected vocalizations at maximum volume until an exit presents itself.

By following the described procedures, you will find that your experiences in both your First and Second Life maintain a careful and unaffected equilibrium, leading to a much happier and healthier sense of self, and your righteousness will remain supremely unchallenged.

Cheers.