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Help, I've Lost a Friend. No mercy in SL?

Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
10-22-2009 10:05
From: Semyon Wirefly
I haven't provided any details because I understood that to be a violation of the TOS for this forum. And anyway, my point was to ask about how LL handles discipline, and to raise a concern for transparency and due process.


Yeah, as if you'd been transparent yourself. What you are looking for is sympathy. This is the wrong place for that, try the church down the street.

You've already gotten the facts, but I'll repeat them for you:

1. Nobody knows how LL handles discipline. Even LL doesn't know, because it changes from day to day.

2. There is no transparency. Not for the accused, and certainly not for third parties.

3. There is no due process. LL makes the rules and enforces them capriciously.

4. USUALLY they get it right. An instant account cancellation is generally a sign the perpetrator is VERY guilty. Underage av, sexual ageplay, fraud, using stolen $L, using someone else's account, massive theft of intellectual property. Even most forms of griefing don't result in this sort of action by LL.

5. Sometimes they get it wrong, and only the accused has any recourse at all, and that's limited.
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Lindal Kidd
Imnotgoing Sideways
Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=
Join date: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4,694
10-22-2009 10:07
It's all a matter of knowing what you can and can't get away with. (^_^)

I, for one, know quite clearly. (^_^)

Read the TOS/CS and take it quite literally or face this guy. (^_^)y

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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 10:10
**Warning** This is pure speculation on my part, .....based on reading between the lines of "Maxum Kingmaker" post, friends of the banned person, the recent spate of bans as per an Ann Otoole posting that i recently read......it's my guess that the OP's friend was banned for using either CyroLife or Neil Life viewer. He might not have done anything malicious with it....but it may have been detected and reported. Then LL went through chat logs...and found a comment that might have sealed his fate. .....it could have been a joke to just "copy" such and such item....but enough to send him into the Sin bin!

That's what i'm guessing! :)
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Innula Zenovka
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Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,825
10-22-2009 10:18
From: Lindal Kidd
Yeah, as if you'd been transparent yourself. What you are looking for is sympathy. This is the wrong place for that, try the church down the street.

You've already gotten the facts, but I'll repeat them for you:

1. Nobody knows how LL handles discipline. Even LL doesn't know, because it changes from day to day.

2. There is no transparency. Not for the accused, and certainly not for third parties.

3. There is no due process. LL makes the rules and enforces them capriciously.

4. USUALLY they get it right. An instant account cancellation is generally a sign the perpetrator is VERY guilty. Underage av, sexual ageplay, fraud, using stolen $L, using someone else's account, massive theft of intellectual property. Even most forms of griefing don't result in this sort of action by LL.

5. Sometimes they get it wrong, and only the accused has any recourse at all, and that's limited.
But, given points 1, 2 and 3, how can you be confident of point 4?

It may well be that " An instant account cancellation is generally a sign someone at Linden Labs has concluded that the perpetrator is guilty of something very serious," and it may well be that they reach the right factual conclusion all the time or some of the time or every now and again, and more by luck than good judgment.

But how does anyone know how accurate they are in their determination of fact, as opposed to how justified the penalty is if they've got their facts right?
Arielyn Docherty
I DO Believe in Santa!
Join date: 3 Jul 2007
Posts: 625
10-22-2009 10:20
Rene, if you're right, then he deserved what he got. Cryolife has far reaching implications for every creator on the grid.
Handy Skytower
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 127
10-22-2009 10:28
From: Pserendipity Daniels
Fixed it for ya!

Pep (So who died so *you* got to tell people when to post or not in the forums?)

The kind of response I've come to expect from Pep.

You fixed what?

You altered what I said in my quote (which should be against the rules of these forums, in my opinion) and then made a snide remark.

Typical Pep talk.

I'm not telling anyone when they can or cannot do anything, and you know that, merely offering that its in poor taste to ass-u-me that someone is lying, or that their friend deserved whatever happened and that you are just too good to have to read their drivel.

So I'll say it again, and stipulate that this is only a suggestion: If you think the OP of any forum thread is lying or misleading, take a moment before you post, take a deep breath and then don't. It makes you look like an ass and gives the forums the bad name they already have.

Just a suggestion tho! Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do.

Handy
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 10:31
From: Arielyn Docherty
Rene, if you're right, then he deserved what he got. Cryolife has far reaching implications for every creator on the grid.


Well, having Cyro Life and logging into SL....and actually using it to copy objects you're not the creator of.......are 2 different things imo....and that's speaking as a creator. 1 infringement is not as severe as the other.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
10-22-2009 10:35
From: Robster Avro
Semyon is showing his true friend ship for a true friend,,Some ppls. arre do desperit for a friend that .Will stoop so low as to drage there tails in the mud. As for Robster Avro. Maximus
Sidek is one of the best friends I have had here. He has worked to no end with new ppls here. To help them leard SL and all the things it has to offer.
I beleave all ppl ned a second chance. And that the baning on his firse efance is to harsh.
Semyon look out there are some not so nice ppl IN sl Thanks so much for your friendship.


I will apologize in advance for being a scold.

PLEASE say English is not your native language. I've never been a fan of Grammar Police, but that was just painful to read. I can be a lazy proofreader and spell checker myself, but any English speaking person with at least a grade school education should be ashamed of themselves for putting that in a public forum.

And isn't Mersey a river in Liverpool?
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
10-22-2009 10:42
From: Handy Skytower
The kind of response I've come to expect from Pep.

You fixed what?

You altered what I said in my quote (which should be against the rules of these forums, in my opinion) and then made a snide remark.

Typical Pep talk.

I'm not telling anyone when they can or cannot do anything, and you know that, merely offering that its in poor taste to ass-u-me that someone is lying, or that their friend deserved whatever happened and that you are just too good to have to read their drivel.

So I'll say it again, and stipulate that this is only a suggestion: If you think the OP of any forum thread is lying or misleading, take a moment before you post, take a deep breath and then don't. It makes you look like an ass and gives the forums the bad name they already have.

Just a suggestion tho! Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do.

Handy


Actually, why should one keep quiet if they feel someone is lying when making wild staements.? Don't we call out perceived liars in our daily lives? Why should this be any different? I see nothing wrong with questioning someone when they make bold, suppositional staements. it should be done im a civil manner, but there is nothing wrong in doing so, in my opinion.

As for this forum's "reputation, who gives a damn anymore? LL has destinied it for the scrap heap, and I am starting to wish they would just close it down and get it over with. Allowing it to go on is just an insult to all involved and a reflection on what a rudderless ship LL is. Let them have thier shiny Blogorum and go out and play in tarffic.
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Drake1 Nightfire
What-evah!
Join date: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 60
10-22-2009 10:43
See, you are following the rules so nothing happens to you. Your friend did not folllow them and was banned. Why are you concerned about "due process"? LL is the judge, jury and procecutioner all in one. They own SL, not us. To prove that all you have to do is remember the old tag line on the main page.... anyone? anyone?
it was "Your world, Your imagination."
From: Semyon Wirefly
I haven't provided any details because I understood that to be a violation of the TOS for this forum. And anyway, my point was to ask about how LL handles discipline, and to raise a concern for transparency and due process.
Handy Skytower
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 127
10-22-2009 10:50
From: Brenda Connolly
Actually, why should one keep quiet if they feel someone is lying when making wild staements.? Don't we call out perceived liars in our daily lives? Why should this be any different? I see nothing wrong with questioning someone when they make bold, suppositional staements. it should be done im a civil manner, but there is nothing wrong in doing so, in my opinion.

As for this forum's "reputation, who gives a damn anymore? LL has destinied it for the scrap heap, and I am starting to wish they would just close it down and get it over with. Allowing it to go on is just an insult to all involved and a reflection on what a rudderless ship LL is. Let them have thier shiny Blogorum and go out and play in tarffic.


I don't know Brenda, I guess its because I'm a bit wounded myself right now, having lost my best friend in SL recently. I felt the OP's pain and then was sickened by the immediate flood of nastiness that followed.

I don't normally dip into these conversations and perhaps I should have stayed out of this one. I just see it happen here so often.

As for the forum, I guess you're right if its actually going to be closed, which, I for one hope it isn't, there are a lot of good people here who actually have wonderful knowledge and can be very helpful.

And from what I can see of the new so-called forums ... well they suck.

Handy
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 10:57
From: Brenda Connolly
.....

As for this forum's "reputation, who gives a damn anymore? LL has destinied it for the scrap heap, and I am starting to wish they would just close it down and get it over with. Allowing it to go on is just an insult to all involved and a reflection on what a rudderless ship LL is. Let them have thier shiny Blogorum and go out and play in tarffic.



I'm actually surprised these forums have not yet been killed off.....i have to say, I'm real happy this existing format is still chugging along. :)

It might be that LL are running the 2 systems in parallel (wishful thinking on my part)....comparing XStreet's new blogforum and it's popularity (or lack of it given all the negative comments over there) and these original forums. Maybe in time, LL might realise this format is worth keeping and bring all the XStreet sections over here! ;)

I can but dream!
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Silas Halfpint
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Join date: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 5
Truth Time
10-22-2009 11:24
From: Maxum Kingmaker
Ahh poor baby, paybacks a bitch isnt it? We know full well who your "friends" are and what they did. Plus we know who you are as we ran across your name more than a few times tracking those bastards down to the home sim. Hint of the day is, If you hadn't posted it would have been forgotten.

Play with fire, and you get burned and let me tell you. They crossed the wrong MF that time. More people are going down if I heard right. If I were you I'd keep your nose out of it. Right now it seems your rather clean.

Keep it that way.


I think its highly amusing that the People/ Person who think 's that they can target people for being different dont have the balls to come out and really admit who they are really and they go running to Lindens with their petty hit list.

Shame they dont stand up and really show what facist biggots they really are. they choose to hide their nasty insidious form behind an alt because they can't take the accountabilty for there own action

I challenge them to show who they really are have the balls to stand. I have my suspitions already who you are and think its funny that you walk amongst the very people you seek to get banned

Stand up and be counted or hide in the darkness as always
Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 11:33
From: Silas Halfpint
I think its highly amusing that the People/ Person who think 's that they can target people for being different dont have the balls to come out and really admit who they are really and they go running to Lindens with their petty hit list.

Shame they dont stand up and really show what facist biggots they really are. they choose to hide their nasty insidious form behind an alt because they can't take the accountabilty for there own action

I challenge them to show who they really are have the balls to stand. I have my suspitions already who you are and think its funny that you walk amongst the very people you seek to get banned

Stand up and be counted or hide in the darkness as always



Wow Silas....now you've scuppered my speculation (i.e using illegal viewer). So it appears maybe false AR'ing a certain group of people when you mentioned "can target people for being different". An attack on the Gay community or Furries maybe??
It appears to be a community of sorts as Maxum mentions "tracking those bastards down to the home sim"
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
10-22-2009 11:39
From: Rene Erlanger
Wow Silas....now you've scuppered my speculation (i.e using illegal viewer). So it appears maybe false AR'ing a certain group of people when you mentioned "can target people for being different". An attack on the Gay community or Furries maybe??
It appears to be a community of sorts as Maxum mentions "tracking those bastards down to the home sim"


Don't forget to add greed-driven merchants and child avs. Your speculation is killing me.....but the riddles and the anticipation builds! This is probably why the Guiding Light got canceled after a 70 year run. Or was it As the World Turns? One of those.
Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
10-22-2009 11:43
From: Handy Skytower
Yeah you are right about that Brenda. My thoughts on that are simple tho, if you suspect its fake or have no sympathy for them, just don't post. Why attack and demean? It hurts us all in the end.

Handy
Do you remember that incident earlier this year where someone made a passionate, heart-throbbing plea on behalf of some Brazilian girl who had been allegedly kidnapped and brought to the US (or something to that effect - my memory is a little sketchy) - only for us to discover it was all an elaborate social-engineering ruse to collect e-mail addresses (presumably to sell to spammers)?

If everyone who smelled something fishy in that story had just kept their mouths shut and never posted anything questioning the validity of the story, that scam would probably still be running rampant.

I'm not saying that the original post in this thread is even close to the same thing; but I believe we are all entitled to healthy skepticism when it comes to such emotionally-laced pleas.
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 11:44
From: Mickey Vandeverre
Don't forget to add greed-driven merchants and child avs. Your speculation is killing me.....but the riddles and the anticipation builds! This is probably why the Guiding Light got canceled after a 70 year run. Or was it As the World Turns? One of those.



lol...it's killing you? It's killing me :D

It's like playing Cluedo, just trying to piece the titbits of information that each involved avatar is leaving behind on this thread! Maybe it's a new game.....SL's version of Cluedo!! :eek:
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
10-22-2009 11:46
From: Rene Erlanger
lol...it's killing you? It's killing me :D

It's like playing Cluedo, just trying to piece the titbits of information that each involved avatar is leaving behind on this thread! Maybe it's a new game.....SL's version of Cluedo!! :eek:


The "titbits" ??? Shame on you for spicing it up!
Riseon Kosten
*Rizzy*
Join date: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 305
10-22-2009 11:46
From: Rene Erlanger
lol...it's killing you? It's killing me :D

It's like playing Cluedo, just trying to piece the titbits of information that each involved avatar is leaving behind on this thread! Maybe it's a new game.....SL's version of Cluedo!! :eek:


I SUSPECT that MAXUM did it in the forest with the NEKO.

Who can prove me wrong? :D
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Rene Erlanger
Scuderia Shapes & Skins G
Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 11:51
From: Riseon Kosten
I SUSPECT that MAXUM did it in the forest with the NEKO.

Who can prove me wrong? :D



Well I initially thought Mr X (OP's friend) copybotted a Furry......now it looks like Maxum false AR'd Mr X on the Home Sim!

How many guesses does one have? :confused:
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
10-22-2009 11:51
From: Silas Halfpint
I think its highly amusing that the People/ Person who think 's that they can target people for being different dont have the balls to come out and really admit who they are really and they go running to Lindens with their petty hit list.

Shame they dont stand up and really show what facist biggots they really are. they choose to hide their nasty insidious form behind an alt because they can't take the accountabilty for there own action

I challenge them to show who they really are have the balls to stand. I have my suspitions already who you are and think its funny that you walk amongst the very people you seek to get banned

Stand up and be counted or hide in the darkness as always

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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
10-22-2009 11:52
From: Brenda Connolly



It's drama. Thought you'd be able to recognize it's particular smell by now :p
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Katheryne Helendale
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Join date: 5 Jun 2008
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10-22-2009 11:58
From: Robster Avro
Semyon is showing his true friend ship for a true friend,,Some ppls. arre do desperit for a friend that .Will stoop so low as to drage there tails in the mud. As for Robster Avro. Maximus
Sidek is one of the best friends I have had here. He has worked to no end with new ppls here. To help them leard SL and all the things it has to offer.
I beleave all ppl ned a second chance. And that the baning on his firse efance is to harsh.
Semyon look out there are some not so nice ppl IN sl Thanks so much for your friendship.

I'm starting to wonder if the offense in question was being underage on the Main Grid. I took a stroll through some profiles here and discovered that almost all of them took rather strong, unusual steps to declare themselves as being over 18. This group is either no stranger to underage/ageplay complaints - justified or not - or are truly underage.

Being in such a position where your age gets called into question so much that you have to declare it in strong language in your in-world profiles, it would behoove you to present yourselves as being adults in every interaction you have involving SL. When you type like a tantruming five-year-old with access to a keyboard, it causes people to question your status as adults, and invites unwanted scrutiny.

At the very least, how can you expect us to take what you say seriously if you can't even be bothered to take the time to even attempt to spell properly? I'm very tolerant when it comes to typos, because nobody is perfect and I've made some doozies myself; but this goes beyond simple typos, and leaves me with the impression of someone banging on a keyboard with his fists and hoping words come out.
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From: Debra Himmel
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Belle Loll
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 260
10-22-2009 12:12
From: Handy Skytower
It makes you look like an ass and gives the forums the bad name they already have. Handy


Why does everyone think these forums have a bad name? I absolutely love these forums and I'm not even one of the "in crowd". Been reading here for a few years and have never even posted in the never ending thread...

First off...if anyone has a real SL question (I don't mean asking or looking for opinions) you get an answer here quicker than anywhere else on the net. Well you DO get a response for opinions expressed faster than anywhere on the net also ;)

And there is nothing I love more than coming here when I have an especially hard or tense work day...it is always a good way to laugh and relax. There are so many unique personalities and humors...how can one say this forum has a bad name?

I think only good things about this forum and I will hate to see it go...it has kept me sane many times! I mean compared to many threads...my RL seems so normal ....even when I know it's not :eek:
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Katheryne Helendale
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Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
10-22-2009 12:22
From: Innula Zenovka
But, given points 1, 2 and 3, how can you be confident of point 4?

It may well be that " An instant account cancellation is generally a sign someone at Linden Labs has concluded that the perpetrator is guilty of something very serious," and it may well be that they reach the right factual conclusion all the time or some of the time or every now and again, and more by luck than good judgment.

But how does anyone know how accurate they are in their determination of fact, as opposed to how justified the penalty is if they've got their facts right?

In a word: Greed. LL likes to have high concurrency numbers and high total population numbers. It makes them look more successful to their investors and to the world at large. I believe this is one reason LL took so long to address the problem with traffic bots (and still only makes a half-hearted effort to cull their numbers). Given this, I can't see LL as wanting to be very quick with the banhammer. Mistakes can and do happen, to be sure; but I would think LL would rather go out of their way to *not* permaban anyone; that it would take something rather exceptional, something potentially damaging to their name, image, or bottom line, for them to do anything that permanently reduces their numbers.
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From: Debra Himmel
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut.

Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world.
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