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Help, I've Lost a Friend. No mercy in SL?

Aeslyn Dae
over and out
Join date: 12 Jul 2007
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10-22-2009 07:15
From: Semyon Wirefly
Help! I've lost a dear friend in SL, and I'm not sure there's anything I can do.

Two things to do: a) talk to him elsewhere instead (chat programs, forums, email, pigeon-post etc and b) get over it and find other friends within SL.

Ok that does sound unfeeling. I'm not unsympathetic if you're for real, but in the end you have to do just that if he remains banned.
[...]
From: Semyon Wirefly
The punishment just seems so disproportionate to his offense. He never abused, griefed, or harmed anyone, and was a great friend to many.


But you don't know what his offence was or if he's whiter than white when you're not around. Nor do we. It's possible your friend might not have told you The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But. IME people don't always if they've been caught out breaking some rule. They will sometimes prefer to tell others they know (and often themselves too) that they weren't really in the wrong.

And as for why LL won't accept interventions and pleas for mercy from friends of the banned person - well that follows on from the above. Only they and he actually know the facts. Their system for dealing with ARs and suspensions or bans may not be well managed (I happen to believe it's a bit of a shambles myself) but it's all there is atm. He'll have to sort it out with LL.

BTW An appropriate thread for Friday.

Joe Friday: "We need the facts. Just the facts, Ma'am."
Kidd Krasner
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10-22-2009 07:40
From: Peggy Paperdoll
I'm with Katheryne on this one. Though LL has been rather harsh on occassions for what I would call a relatively minor offense, that is really quite rare. Even rarer are the permabans.....even after repeated suspensions. LL just does not like to permaban anyone.........but for major offenses they do it.

I don't see how you or anyone else outside of LL could have enough data to say whether or not it's rare or how LL feels about permabans.

I know of two cases in the last year where LL issued permabans that were later overturned. I'm pretty sure that for at least one of them there was no prior record of offenses. It took this person significant time, effort, and patience to get it overturned. Given that it's easy to verify that it was overturned, I'm inclined to believe that this person's description of the events is accurate, and that the permaban was an error on LL's part.

How did it happen? I can only guess that someone with a chip on their shoulder but no standards, guidelines, or adequate training was either given authority that they shouldn't have been trusted with or given a task without adequate time and resources to perform the task properly. There's inadequate review, inadequate transparency, and inadequate standards.
Handy Skytower
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10-22-2009 08:04
From: Kidd Krasner
I don't see how you or anyone else outside of LL could have enough data to say whether or not it's rare or how LL feels about permabans.

I know of two cases in the last year where LL issued permabans that were later overturned. I'm pretty sure that for at least one of them there was no prior record of offenses. It took this person significant time, effort, and patience to get it overturned. Given that it's easy to verify that it was overturned, I'm inclined to believe that this person's description of the events is accurate, and that the permaban was an error on LL's part.

How did it happen? I can only guess that someone with a chip on their shoulder but no standards, guidelines, or adequate training was either given authority that they shouldn't have been trusted with or given a task without adequate time and resources to perform the task properly. There's inadequate review, inadequate transparency, and inadequate standards.


Its amusing to me how the very same people who constantly berate LL's for every decision they make have been quick to assume that if they banned someone it MUST have been for legit reasons.

The OP wanted to better understand the process LL's uses to handle these issues and most likely wanted a little sympathy for his loss, and while some of have given that, if you look at the first page he was hit with unsympathetic criticism instead.

Not that that is unusual for these forums sadly.

Handy
Beowulf Blackburn
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10-22-2009 08:22
Do all of you guys have permanent IP adresses???
Rene Erlanger
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10-22-2009 08:29
From: Handy Skytower
Its amusing to me how the very same people who constantly berate LL's for every decision they make have been quick to assume that if they banned someone it MUST have been for legit reasons.

The OP wanted to better understand the process LL's uses to handle these issues and most likely wanted a little sympathy for his loss, and while some of have given that, if you look at the first page he was hit with unsympathetic criticism instead.

Not that that is unusual for these forums sadly.

Handy


Agreed....i have learnt just by reading these forums....never expect too much sympathy. If i have a grievance i certainly wouldn't air them on RA forums.....it would be one of the last places!! :eek:

I think when replying to this type of OP post, we should focus on the "is there anything that can be done?" part of the post...rather than make character assassinations or assumptions about the 3rd party involved. Personally, if someone is genuinely upset like the OP...i don't think it's necessary or helpful to stick the boot in!

From: Semyon Wirefly
Help! I've lost a dear friend in SL, and I'm not sure there's anything I can do.

.
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Brenda Connolly
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10-22-2009 08:35
From my experience, no internet forum is the place to go if you want any sort of sympathy..Yeah, we are jaded as a group, but there have been some real whiz bang stories here over the years that have started out just like this...until the details were gradually revealed.
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Brenda Connolly
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10-22-2009 08:38
From: Rene Erlanger
Agreed....i have learnt just by reading these forums....never expect too much sympathy. If i have a grievance i certainly wouldn't air them on RA forums.....it would be one of the last places!! :eek:

I think when replying to this type of OP post, we should focus on the "is there anything that can be done?" part of the post...rather than make character assassinations or assumptions about the 3rd party involved. Personally, if someone is genuinely upset like the OP...i don't think it's necessary or helpful to stick the boot in!


That is true...to the OP. There is NOTHING you can do. It's not your account. LL, rightfully won't let anyone but the account holder deal with account matters. Your friend should call LL and get as much information as possible, file a helpdesk ticket, and keep doing so untile he gets answers. That is all that can be done.
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
10-22-2009 08:42
From: Beowulf Blackburn
Do all of you guys have permanent IP adresses???
Mine is permanent within a block of 10 that is for this house -- every reboot I will always get one of those 10.


From: Maxum Kingmaker
Ahh poor baby, paybacks a bitch isnt it? We know full well who your "friends" are and what they did. Plus we know who you are as we ran across your name more than a few times tracking those bastards down to the home sim. Hint of the day is, If you hadn't posted it would have been forgotten.

Play with fire, and you get burned and let me tell you. They crossed the wrong MF that time. More people are going down if I heard right. If I were you I'd keep your nose out of it. Right now it seems your rather clean.

Keep it that way.
More details, please.
:D
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Handy Skytower
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10-22-2009 08:42
From: Brenda Connolly
From my experience, no internet forum is the place to go if you want any sort of sympathy..Yeah, we are jaded as a group, but there have been some real whiz bang stories here over the years that have started out just like this...until the details were gradually revealed.

Yeah you are right about that Brenda. My thoughts on that are simple tho, if you suspect its fake or have no sympathy for them, just don't post. Why attack and demean? It hurts us all in the end.

Handy
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
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10-22-2009 08:43
From: Brenda Connolly
From my experience, no internet forum is the place to go if you want any sort of sympathy..Yeah, we are jaded as a group, but there have been some real whiz bang stories here over the years that have started out just like this...until the details were gradually revealed.
QFT!!!!
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Brenda Connolly
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10-22-2009 08:45
From: Handy Skytower
Yeah you are right about that Brenda. My thoughts on that are simple tho, if you suspect its fake or have no sympathy for them, just don't post. Why attack and demean? It hurts us all in the end.

Handy


I can't disagree with that. But we all get a case of Schadenfreud every now and again.
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Brenda Connolly
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10-22-2009 08:46
From: Beowulf Blackburn
Do all of you guys have permanent IP adresses???


How can you tell?
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Holocluck Henly
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Join date: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 552
10-22-2009 08:47
From: Lias Leandros
No it is not an offense to log on as another character when one character is banned unless the IP address is banned also.


There's a difference between what you're permitted to do and what you believe you can get away with.

Inciting someone to violate the TOS is also grounds for a permban
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Darius Habilis
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Are you taking Credit for this?
10-22-2009 08:48
From: We know full well who your "friends" are and what they did. Plus we know who you are as we ran across your name more than a few times tracking those bastards down to the home sim. [/QUOTE


OMG! this sounds like some sort of vendetta against Semyon's friend, not to mention, who is "we"?? and it is an outright threat, and will be reported as such.
Robster Avro
Registered User
Join date: 3 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Is there no Mersey??
10-22-2009 09:05
Semyon is showing his true friend ship for a true friend,,Some ppls. arre do desperit for a friend that .Will stoop so low as to drage there tails in the mud. As for Robster Avro. Maximus
Sidek is one of the best friends I have had here. He has worked to no end with new ppls here. To help them leard SL and all the things it has to offer.
I beleave all ppl ned a second chance. And that the baning on his firse efance is to harsh.
Semyon look out there are some not so nice ppl IN sl Thanks so much for your friendship.
Pserendipity Daniels
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Join date: 21 Dec 2006
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10-22-2009 09:09
From: Handy Skytower
Yeah you are right about that Brenda. My thoughts on that are simple tho, if you are a fake or are just looking for sympathy for them, just don't post.
Fixed it for ya!

Pep (So who died so *you* got to tell people when to post or not in the forums?)
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Pserendipity Daniels
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Join date: 21 Dec 2006
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10-22-2009 09:09
This thread must be breaking the record for virgin posters.

Pep (I've counted six "first posts" already.)

PS Robster, check out with any Scouser if you want confirmation.
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Arielyn Docherty
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Join date: 3 Jul 2007
Posts: 625
10-22-2009 09:10
From: Robster Avro
Semyon is showing his true friend ship for a true friend,,Some ppls. arre do desperit for a friend that .Will stoop so low as to drage there tails in the mud. As for Robster Avro. Maximus
Sidek is one of the best friends I have had here. He has worked to no end with new ppls here. To help them leard SL and all the things it has to offer.
I beleave all ppl ned a second chance. And that the baning on his firse efance is to harsh.
Semyon look out there are some not so nice ppl IN sl Thanks so much for your friendship.



Veiled and rather transparent attempt to come off as a different avi....soooooo sad. :(
Milla Janick
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Join date: 2 Jan 2008
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10-22-2009 09:14
From: Handy Skytower
The OP wanted to better understand the process LL's uses to handle these issues and most likely wanted a little sympathy for his loss, and while some of have given that, if you look at the first page he was hit with unsympathetic criticism instead.

If the OP were a little more forthright about the reasons for the banning, I suspect they might get more sympathy. Assuming it wasn't actually justified.

Permaban does seem excessive for most first time TOS infractions, so how'd they rate it?
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Rene Erlanger
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Join date: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2,008
10-22-2009 09:22
From: Peggy Paperdoll
I'm with Katheryne on this one. Though LL has been rather harsh on occassions for what I would call a relatively minor offense, that is really quite rare. Even rarer are the permabans.....even after repeated suspensions. LL just does not like to permaban anyone.........but for major offenses they do it. I won't venture a guess for what reason but knowing LL's history for taking action on major offenses I'll bet your friend violated something very major.......very, very major. There is, of course, the possibility that your friend's banning was a cumulation of several (possibly many) other violations that added up the the permaban. The whole line of events are not known to any of us.......only LL and the banned person know what happened. LL won't tell and the banned person will very likely only tell what he/she feels is going to be sympathic to his/her side of the story.

I know the person who was banned cannot log into the forums to give a first hand account of the issue but these second hand sob stories are always suspect to me. I just cannot believe the OP is being completely candid on this subject.........just way to much involved. Second hand stories are more often than not fictional.......however I do not believe that is intensional on the poster's part. But because the poster is too close the issue to be objective.............and the liklihood of the poster not getting a true account of what really happened. You just don't know the people you become close to in SL (actually on the internet in general).

Perhaps my way of thinking is why I don't have a boyfriend in SL. :)



Well LL don't always get it right so we can't make character assumptions.

In early 2007 i had a MAC ban which prevented me from logging into SL for a week or more. I remember sending 2 strong emails to Philip Linden and cc'ing Cory Linden + 2 others. It was only after my 2nd email that miraculously after a few hours i was able to log into SL.!! I was never given a real adequate explanation as to why that happened other than suggesting it was a case of mistaken identity on applying the MAC ban! So basically some jerk-off at the Lab flicked the wrong switch!

I can confirm i have never received a single LL warning for any transgression (or rule break or AR'd) in SL in over 3 years.
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Mickey Vandeverre
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10-22-2009 09:30
From: Brenda Connolly
From my experience, no internet forum is the place to go if you want any sort of sympathy..Yeah, we are jaded as a group, but there have been some real whiz bang stories here over the years that have started out just like this...until the details were gradually revealed.


I don't see any harm in responding from a jaded point of view.

I wish there were some kind of orientation in the first 24 hours that involved some tips on how to deal with some of the social/emotional trials that go on in SL. Just as important to learn how to deal with those as it is to learn how to move and fly. And it would certainly need to be influenced from some jaded perspectives, unless you want to give them some kind of Pollyanna Fairytale story and send them out into the world to get their heart stomped on and ripped out.
Semyon Wirefly
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10-22-2009 09:48
From: Milla Janick
If the OP were a little more forthright about the reasons for the banning, I suspect they might get more sympathy. Assuming it wasn't actually justified.

Permaban does seem excessive for most first time TOS infractions, so how'd they rate it?


I haven't provided any details because I understood that to be a violation of the TOS for this forum. And anyway, my point was to ask about how LL handles discipline, and to raise a concern for transparency and due process.
Treasure Ballinger
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10-22-2009 09:59
From: Semyon Wirefly
I haven't provided any details because I understood that to be a violation of the TOS for this forum. And anyway, my point was to ask about how LL handles discipline, and to raise a concern for transparency and due process.


Possibly. But to the banned person. Not to friends, and friends of friends, and uncle's mama's cousin. It's a privacy issue.
shagger Scorpio
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Join date: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 2
10-22-2009 10:01
From: Arielyn Docherty
Veiled and rather transparent attempt to come off as a different avi....soooooo sad. :(




robster & semyon are different people...sheesh people no nothing at all but are quick to jump in and make judgement
West Zane
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Join date: 18 Jul 2009
Posts: 1
10-22-2009 10:01
Well, here comes another virgin poster.
I am new to the game, having only been around for a few months, but already I've invested a bit of time and money into the game for both myself and my girlfriend.
Accusations like this, if held to be true, make even newbies like me very uneasy, particularly since we have such a varied response from people on this issue- some saying that LL never bans for silly reasons, and others saying that they have known people who have been wrongfully permabanned. It's disturbing on a number of levels to think that all the time and money can be gone in an instant, but it can, and that's understandable if one breaks the rules, but to hear about the completely innocent taking a forced 'break' from SL for an extended (or permanent) amount of time is unsettling...
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