Clarification please...

If they don't know how to write for their target audience...

If they allow their wiki page on adult content to be "a mess" when so many people are looking for answers...

If they have made promises to follow through with info in other languages, and not done it...

If they are bad at explaining things...

Why wouldn't I think they don't know what a large fraction of the SL population owns sex beds? Or that they don't intend to cram 2/3 of the people into 5% of the land?

I appreciate your thoughts and your beliefs, Daniel and the time you've taken in answering.

But I'm still not really looking for thoughts or beliefs. I'd really like clarification with documentation in current or proposed future published policy that I am allowed to engage in adult activities in the privacy of my Mature mainland that has been marked as accessable to age-verified adults only.

The What is the difference between PG and Mature land? KB article the wiki you provided a link to references was last updated 31/7/2008; more then a year ago and obviously hasn't been updated to reflect the new Adult Content policy. Thats the only article I can find that suggests "explicit adult content must be contained behind closed doors" on Mature mainland. That's definately the way it used to be, but it contradicts the more recent Community Standards.

The Age Verification Parcel and Estate Management Features KB Article has a note that states : If your land has content that is particularly sensitive or adult in nature, it is your responsibility to expressly ban adults who have not verified their ages. But that article is also almost a year old now and has not been updated or revised since the new policy.

If both of those KB articles are contradictory to the recent Community Standards changes, my belief is that the newest published changes are the correct ones. LL has admitted many times that the Knowledge Base is woefully out of date. So until proven otherwise, I'm going to have to believe that that the Community Standards represent the current restrictions and that it is now true that 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland.'

I'd ask if anyone was interesting in picking up some cheap Mature mainland, but I think the market is going to be glutted with plenty in the near future.

i think they don't care what happens to the adult content community..

i remember someplace someone saying if you think it's not allowed take the best road you think to stay within the rules..something along those lines..i can't remember the exact words..if i can find the quote i will post it..

but basically my opinion is people will either take the safe path or get AR'd in areas where we are not sure..

some think LL is slowly trying to sift out adult content in the end..AR's and fear of being AR'd would cut down adult content use on mainlands outside of Zindra..
who knows if there really is any truth to that really lol

i think they are just being careful to what they commit to right now..i think they want to see how things go after the opening of zindra and adjust all this again..

still this is a big guess..
mixing the search rules in with the rule of how we can act is really making it ruff to separate what is what..

do some things only mean if we advertize them or are they combined with how we live our sl lives as well..

it would be so much less confusing for me anyways if they would have had two different sections and not mingled them together in the maturity definitions and CS..

Daniel, that was originally MY wiki page on adult content, and you broke a number of links when you did it. Please fix it.

There are a few possibilities, one is as Daniel says that they're just not good at writing documentation to their intended audience.

Another is that someone senior at LL wants adult activities off the mainland and so the team are writing documentation in such a fashion to appease them without the actual policy meaning what it says. This is the out of sight out of mind policy, let's not forget that someone at LL finds social references to alcohol to be mature content.

Another theory is that LL want all adult content off mainland but don't want to cause a hoo-ha yet so they're setting their long term goal slowly by appearing to allow it, but putting documentation in place that they can later point to to say it isn't allowed. Maybe they hope people will move to Zindra or adult estate land as they feel ill at ease.

Personally I think the last theory is the one I would go for as far as these changes are concerned as although they say no teens are coming onto the grid I do believe it will be happening and this cleansing is the start of stricter rules that will fall into place over the coming months. They will gradually be introduced so before anyone knows it the mainland will be a PG environment and the overall impact will be minimized, as the changes were gradual and people will have just accepted them over the longer period of introduction and those that didn't like it would have already left SL, a few at a time over the changes and the impact overall to LL will have been less dramatic than a big exodus if it was introduced all in one go.

Just my thoughts though

I don't think this is right. I've seen quite a few posts assuming mature estate will be ok, but the CS says ...

and the wiki says ...

@ DanielRavenNest: Burlesque is not the same as strippers. It's a more theatrical artform, closely related to cabaret. Although it usually includes an element of striptease, the emphasis in Burlesque is on the "tease" rather than the "strip". Burlesque is undergoing a big revival at the moment, especially in London.

ok i just re-read it and from what i gather..you can have adult content in the privacy of your own home..
it is really crazy the path you have to follow to get what they are saying..

=======================================
What are "Mature" Regions, groups, events, and classifieds?

Second Life's Mature Designation is intended to accommodate most of the non-adult activities that are common in Second Life. For instance, social and dance clubs (unless those clubs promote sexual conduct or use adult search tags), bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning)

((here is the piece that says as long as it is not public or advertised ))

all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content.

Thus, Residents in these spaces should expect to see a variety of themes and content. For instance, stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Mature rather than Adult Regions.

((here is section where Promote becomes a key word of importance that it is all about
advertising it that makes the difference between adult and mature))

Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Mature Regions so long as they don't promote sexual conduct, such as through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However, if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, it may be categorized as adult and also blocked from appearing in non-adult search.

Groups, events and classifieds that relate to this broad range of activities and themes generally should also be designated as Mature.
=========================================

nothing in there pertains to privacy of your own home..more about search and business than anything..

so i went back to the CS hehehe to re-read it

the first part of the CS says this...
---------------------------------------------------
Adult Regions, Groups, and Listings

Second Life is an adult community, but 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland.' Such material is permitted on private regions, or on the Adult Continent, Zindra.
-------------------------------------------------------
but the line that has kept bugging me from over thinking about is was this "in Either case" line..
-------------------------------

In either case, any Adult content, activity, or communication, that falls under our Adult Maturity Definition must be on regions designated as 'Adult,' and will be filtered from non-verified accounts. Other regions may be designated as either 'Mature' or 'PG.'
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok so now i went to the Adult maturity definitions and in the first paragraph it states
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use. Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so basically it all falls to this first line in the adult maturity definitions..
----------------------------------------------------------
if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:
* Representations of intensely violent acts, whether or not photo-realistic (for example, depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm)
* Photo-realistic nudity; photo-realistic means that an image either is or cannot be distinguished from a photograph
* Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities (whether or not photo-realistic); we will broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct
---------------------------------------------------
so if you are not advertising that you are doing nasty things in your house you can do the nasty behind the walls..

god i hope i got it right because it worked right in my mind..but then again thats not saying a lot.. hahahaha

I'm not arguing that the whole thing could be interpreted that way, Ceka. That would be the Best Case Scenario. Rarely have I witnessed anything in SL come to the Best Case Scenario conclusion.

But here's my interpretation. It would be the Worse Case Scenario - much more common in SL:

You cannot engage in adult activities on any region that is not designated as Adult.

Mature mainland not on the Zindra continent cannot be designated as Adult. The best you can do is is flag the parcel for Mature content (Not Adult) and restrict avatars who are not age-verified.

Because it cannot be designated as Adult, you may not engage in adult activities on the Mature mainland.

I don't even have to follow a crazy path to get to that interpretation. I am not guessing or believing or wishing. I'm just reading the facts for what they say.

I'll tell y'all what... I'll give $L10,000 to the first person who can show me in official LL documentation of policy that it will be ok to engage in sexual conduct on the Mature mainland in the privacy of your own Mature land that has been restricted to age-verified adults. It can't be an interpretation, it has to be clearly stated. It can't be one Linden's opinion, it has to be part of written documentation.

I'm willing to offer that much because it would most likely cost me 3x's that amount to purchase new land in Zindra of the size of my current valueless Mature landholdings.

Not that I have any intention of purchasing any Adult land. Two years from now there will be a policy change that will designate Adult as being equal to soft-core porn and the new XXX continent of Phucktarditry will be born. I'll wait for that one.

I don't think you'll be waiting that long I also think there'll be no more new smut continents. I see a general move towards sl becoming a 3d version of facebook including greater web interfacing. Shopping, dancing, talking, looking at worthy things ( and spending money of course ) will all be encouraged. The dark underbelly (i.e. us) will be officially erased from this picture.

At best case we'll be a bit like flickr, where the restricted content is completely hidden from those who haven't been invited into sample it. At worst we will just be ToS'd out of existence.

Whatever happens, it's pretty apparent now we're not the type of "use case" they want from their customers but until they lock in a replacement income stream they'll put up with us.

Adult Regions, Groups, and Listings
Second Life is an adult community, but 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland.'
((ok it says secondlife mainland here..that means LL/gov land not private land..))


Such material is permitted on private regions, or on the Adult Continent, Zindra.

In either case, any Adult content, activity, or communication, that falls under our Adult Maturity Definition must be on regions designated as 'Adult,' and will be filtered from non-verified accounts.

(((Mature private land not displaying or informing anyone that they have this content and keeps it in doors out of sight does not fall under the adult maturity definitions..)))

The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use. Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:
((you do not need verification if you are not advertising or promoting adult content inside of your private building))

i think the thing is when we see mainland and zindra we think all of mainland cannot and all of zindra you can have adult..you cannot have it on second life land in zindra or on secondlife mainland..just in zindra private regions and mainland mature private regions..

Fails to meet the "It can't be an interpretation, it has to be clearly stated." clause of the contest.

Next applicant.

PAY ME!! lol

Knowledge Base
Second Life Info > Second Life for Beginners >
What is the difference between PG and Mature land?

Private Region/Estate/Island owners can indicate their land to be either PG or Mature from the Region tab of the Region/Estate window, using the Maturity dropdown list. This option is not available to Region owners on the mainland.

The PG and Mature ratings mirror those used by many countries' movie and television industries to denote the age-appropriateness of behavior, language and creations within a given area of Second Life.

PG Areas are designated to be free from sexually explicit language or behavior, swearing and other forms of aggressive language, violent behavior and/or imagery, including horror. Gambling for Linden Dollars is also prohibited.

Children and young people up to age 17 are automatically restricted to Teen Second Life, a special PG area that separates them from the adult population of Second Life.

Adults age 18 and over may seek an experience free of Mature content and so, we also offer PG areas within the adult regions of Second Life.

Mature areas are limited to the adult-accessible areas of Second Life only, and do allow adult language and behavior.
So how do I know where to draw the line?

PG regions have frequently been described as an area where you're free to say and do things that you would feel comfortable doing in front of your grandmother, or a grade school class.

((((((((( In Mature regions, Residents can be free to engage in more adult activity and language, though of course, explicit adult content must be contained behind "closed doors".))))))))))))))

However, if you feel there's some ambiguity as to whether or not your activity or content is allowed in a PG region, it's likely best kept to a Mature region.)))))

Rating: Rating of 3 Stars ( 12 Votes)



Edit: here is the link just so you know i didn't edit it .. go here then do a search in the upper left corner "second life mainland" then after that go down to #12 .whats the difference between pg and mature and you will find this quote

I pointed out earlier that that particular KB article is dated from before current policy changes and therefore it could just as easily be assumed that the more current Community Standards are correct and that KB article is out of date and incorrect.

I can tell it's out of date because it specifically does not mention anything about Adult regions or classifications. When the KB is updated to say "What's the difference between PG, Mature and Adult land" I'll hand over the cash.

well, how about if we update the wiki page that the zindra blog refers to (and live help too it seems) to reflect what we want it to say?

Since LL rely on their customers to understand their rules by osmosis and also want them to document them in the wiki, localise their content, pay LL for the pleasure of providing free entertainment and cheap items and allow LL use all this in their marketing while they crow about the profits they're making, let's actually take advantage of it to write the wiki the way we want and see what happens *evil grin*

i didn't really want your money..the pay me was just a joke...

i just can't find anything that says you cannot have adult content or activities on mainland in private..it all points to advertised and promoted..like they have said the whole way..


Topic Information
Topic #: 4051-6345
Date Created: 1/6/2009
Modified: 18/6/2009
Times Viewed: 6154

I only have a little bit of adult content, do I have to move to Zindra?

The only place where you can have publicly-promoted adult content on the Mainland is this new continent. You could choose to subdivide your current parcel and just request a small parcel in the new continent.

I'm also going to say that I've found this article on the wiki found here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mature_or_Adult%3F

It says in part:


He says he's being specific as possible but he also ends it with a personal interpretation of the situation and we all know that individual Linden's can interpret things very differently when there is no clear cut policy to point to.

And again, this is one Linden's opinion and an opinion expressed 3 months ago, prior to the new Community Standards being published.

Can't I interpret that to mean that the Community Standards were in fact updated to reflect LL's most current position on where and how Adult Content is permitted so that one Linden wouldn't have to guess or interpret for themselves? That at the end of all of this they decided that the simplest route was to have it state clearly that Adult Activities are not permitted on the Mature mainland... period.

By the way, that example above only really says what Blondin's opinion would be if a sex-bed was found. It does not address the consequences to Jane Doe had she been USING the sex-bed.

It should be such a simple question: Can I engage in private sexual activity on my Mature land on a parcel that has been restricted to age-verified adults? The most current document to address that says pretty clearly "no" and a handful of older documents present a convoluted path of individual interpretation of how things were prior to the Adult Content changes.


I can; the new Community Standards.

well i was looking that they have updated everything else and left what did not need to be modified..

the main reason for the change is to clean up mature and pg..they have done that by separating searches and public display.

you could always send in a ticket and ask them flat out..can i have adult content in a mature rated sim or parcel if it is not publicized and is behind closed doors..

i don't know why people would clog the water with examples instead of come flat out with ..will i get in trouble if it is out of sight and off the search and is inside my private home..

someone did and the linden in question told them as long as it was inside it would be fine. Consenting adults in private and all that...

haven't got the link any more but i think I saw it in someone's signature so it will pop up again I hope.

I guess I disagree. We are not the shiny suited corporate types they're currently targeting, but they're more than happy to take our money, and I expect they'll continue to take it as long as we'll pay. The thing is, some of us offended the delicate sensibilities of some of the shiny suits, and they fussed about it, and LL listened and herded us off somewhere more discreet. They figure they'll nonetheless retain most of the revenue from us--and they're probably right about that.

Frankly, I don't think they have a chance in hell of making margin from corporates any time soon. LL is spending a lot on marketing to that segment. It's a very high-overhead business--ask anybody who sells "enterprise" software. I half suspect that the whole Adult Content thing arose from Marketing using us as an excuse for not making their corporate segment targets. I'm sure their unwilling target customers will give them another excuse next fiscal year.

Even if they were to succeed with that market, they'd still have to think twice about throwing away the revenue from Adult content providers. I could see them trying to spin off and sell Zindra and the rest of the Adult grid, if the price was right. But I can't see them just shooting their cash cow in the head.

Possibly /327/ee/327483/8.html#post2477324 :

(This by no means qualifies as the clarification requested by the OP.)

I don't think they're actually targetting them for the money, but for the prestige and the good publicity. It's the best way to overcome the common misconception that SL is just a sinners paradise.

There appears to be a determined effort to get the social networking crowd in - as this quote from M shows:
http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/28/second-life-and-the-web-the-new-dashboard/



LL are bragging about how they have around 1/4 of the monthly minutes that skype does. If you think how long skype has been going and how recently voice has been inworld you can see this is quite a remarkable feat (let's not talk about call quality though )

you may also remember that they've tried all manner of things like slim etc to try to facilitate web/mobile based sl contact.

I think you'll find these are meta's missing millions and LL wants a slice of them.

As for spinning it off. I did think at the beginning of this that it was quite likely, particularly since you can't access zindra without tping in. It relies on IBM finally getting the portal software out there and during the last few weeks it's become apparent that IBM appear to be putting more effort into the opengrid rather than the portal. But behind the scenes we just don't know

It is likely they may isolate zindra by platform (like the teen grid) rather than close us down completely but that assumes they still want the reputation of facilitating sleaze.

The biggest problem with that is technical - in that the avatar would have items in both worlds. It certainly would be interesting to see how they approached that one - particularly around land tiers etc.


In the end it doesn't matter how it's done, in the end the freewheeling wild west days are drawing to a close.

I'm beginning to think a spun off adult only place might not be a bad idea. I'd stay there, if it meant being able to avoid the corporates.

i just have to ask because now i am curious..is zindra a mainland?and are all mainlands continents??
i would really like to be sure myself..i can understand the OP wanting to be 110% sure..and the way things are worded it can go a few different ways..i would want to be 110%

i see everything leading to the maturity definitions and the FAQ's and second life mainland being all mainlands..
the CS links them all..

a region is land..it doesn't show it as being a sim or private island

Mainland Pricing & Fees
1/128 Region 512 sqm 117 US$5
1/64 Region 1,024 sqm 234 US$8
1/32 Region 2,048 sqm 468 US$15
1/16 Region 4,096 sqm 937 US$25
1/8 Region 8,192 sqm 1,875 US$40
1/4 Region 16,384 sqm 3,750 US$75
1/2 Region 32,768 sqm 7,500 US$125
Entire Region 65,536 sqm 15,000 US$195

so when they say second life mainland are they talking about linden land?

i'm just gonna quote part of this because i'm sure we all are learning it by heart already lol

Second Life is an adult community, but 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland.' Such material is permitted on private regions, or on the Adult Continent, Zindra. In either case, any Adult content, activity, or communication, that falls under our Adult Maturity Definition must be on regions designated as 'Adult,'

private out of sight none advertised content and activities do not fall under adult maturity definitions.

this is not to the OP..this is me just needing to know now for myself because now i am freaking confused hahahaha

to me the only confusion is that stupid line..second life mainland lol
my brain is fried now and my eyes are broken hehehehe

I'm having a lot of trouble also understanding the new Adult policy. Since English is not my first language I need some clarification too. My situation is this:

- I have a furniture shop on a complete sim.
- My furniture is non-sexuel (only cuddles), so my sim is PG.
- However, in one small corner of the sim I sell sex beds on a seperate land.
- Bed models are displayed, but poseballs are disabled.
- Only one demo bed is fully functional, I've made a seperate closed room for people to try the demo bed. It's on that same seperate land but a little up in the sky.

What should I do, according to the new policy?

1) Can I keep the seperate land as it is now with the one functional bed in the closed demo room, make only that specific land Mature and still keep the complete sim PG?

If that's not allowed:

2) Can I keep the seperate land as it is now with ONLY non-functional beds, get rid of the demo bed, BUT make a sign/billboard with a link to a YouTube video that shows the sex poses with decently dressed avatars? Complete sim and beds land remain PG.

Zindra is a continent. "The mainland" is made up of all the continents, including Zindra. Except in this quote:


They refer to Zindra as something separate from mainland, so I see the confusion. It doesn't really make a difference. Look at it this way: You can have public adult content on any region that is designated as Adult, anywhere on the grid. All the MAINLAND regions that are designated as adult are on Zindra, so that's the only part of mainland (the only continent) where you can host public adult content.


Correct. A region is another word for a sim, which can be either a mainland sim or a private island (or a sim that is part of a big private estate). It's just an amount of land.


Well, Linden Land usually refers to protected land - roads and waterways and stuff - land that is owned by Governor Linden. You only get Linden Land on Mainland, but not all mainland is Linden Land, most of it is owned by individual residents.

When they say mainland they are talking about all the continents collectively. Anywhere you can buy a parcel and pay tier directly to LL is mainland. I know they refer to mainland and Zindra as two separate things in the quote above, but in effect, Zindra is just another mainland continent.

I'm not surprised you're confused, I am tying my brain in knots trying to explain it!
Basically, if you own or rent land ANYWHERE and it says "Adult" at the top of the screen, you are allowed to host publicly promoted adult content, otherwise, you are not allowed.

Now ...

Where did you read this bit? Is it in the CS yet, or on the blog? I live in hope