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Virtual Worlds and Morality

Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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11-14-2008 14:47
From: Monalisa Robbiani
The other users will.

Just look at the witch hunt that is happening now against child avatars. If fake children are being "protected" by SL residents in such a strong way, one can only assume that non-verified accounts would be even more protected. Any slightest wrong behavior would result in an instant AR.

This is speculation though.

The Child AV witch hunt would probably be a less if people were more comfortable in knowing minors couldn't access the adult grid more easily than the teen grid.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 14:51
From: Tegg Bode
We are being a community not police, do you expect communities to ignore any behaviour they see as potentially damaging?
And if having someone you just cybered with announce they are underage then demand $10,000L or they will report you to the cops isn't damaging, not sure what is.
I'm sure after your RL name has been dragged through the papers and court system to easily prove your innocence, knowing the "tick this box if you are 18" will hold up in any court as a reasonable attempt to keep minors out. you would not feel worried at all.


I'm fine with it. THEY are the one who entered SL under false pretenses. THEY are the ones trying to extort. Let's go to court, make sure Mom and Dad come along.Besides, at least here, such a case would never get to court.You would not be very liable if you ceased once the person admitted to being underage, and even then, an actual RL meeting would have to take place in most cases.
Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 14:53
From: Tegg Bode
The Child AV witch hunt would probably be a less if people were more comfortable in knowing minors couldn't access the adult grid more easily than the teen grid.


I'll defer to Mari on this, there are too many cases of people assuming the worst when they see a child avi, and over eacting, but is it a "Witchhunt"? Seems a bit hyperbolic to me.
Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
11-14-2008 14:56
From: Monalisa Robbiani
The other users will.

Just look at the witch hunt that is happening now against child avatars. If fake children are being "protected" by SL residents in such a strong way, one can only assume that non-verified accounts would be even more protected. Any slightest wrong behavior would result in an instant AR.

This is speculation though.

I entirely fail to see how the witch hunt against child avatars are protecting them. I see exactly that, a witch hunt against somebody who is not behaving like the supposed mainstream.
Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 14:56
From: Jig Chippewa
Just following Brenda, and in my country providing such required information is an offense under the law. Only government agencies can request that information and even then may be denied it.

Then LL needs to come up with a way to verify you within the bounds of your laws, or lose you as customers. But in any event, it is their service, their responsibilty, which they constantly abrogate to the users. They want the rewards, but don't want the risks.
Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 14:59
From: Jig Chippewa
Quote:
Hang on! Have I missed something here - we arent proposing to have teenagers among us are we???? If so, then I am off. I'll just email my sl partner (who is 64). I dont need to be a effing babysitter (edite dto avoid offense)
And before anyone start spouting off that some teenagers are absolutely charming individuals, I was one not so long ago and NO we werent at all charming.


1 user emphatically agreed.
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
11-14-2008 15:02
From: Brenda Connolly
I'll defer to Mari on this, there are too many cases of people assuming the worst when they see a child avi, and over eacting, but is it a "Witchhunt"? Seems a bit hyperbolic to me.

Yes sorry its a stong phrase "witch hunt", really I don't see one happening at all,, I caught it from a previous poster, damn infectious phrases spinning out of control :)
"E-acting" nice new term you came up with :)
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
11-14-2008 15:02
From: Lindal Kidd
OK. So SL permits sex, in just about any form, and just about anywhere (except for PG areas). They used to permit gambling, and unregulated "banking" and "stock exchanges".

OpenLife permits gambling, I hear...but not sex, adhering to the Australian M-15+ standard.

Legend City Online has no restrictions that I've heard of.

My personal opinion is that there should be at least one grid that's completely open. Caveat emptor, all-out anarchy...with a permaban ability to shoot down griefers. I think SL had a lot more "spice" two years ago. I think it will be a very dull place two years from now, when it's all sanitized and Disneyfied and Made Safe For Corporate Use.

But my question is...what's the optimum solution? What should a virtual world permit, what should it regulate, what should it forbid?


I'll just pick up the gambling point Lindal, no doubt others have. As you can imagine this was a point I was especially interested in. I can state quite categorically that gambling is NOT going to be tolerated in Openlife.
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
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11-14-2008 15:02
Ticking a box doesnt bother me. Providing passport, driver license, health card, Socieal Security does.
Anyway, considering the kinda stuff that is accessible to teengers in terms of games, internet, TV and movies, SL is pretty tame.
I dont agree with age verifying. I dont agree to providing access to teenagers - how are we gonna police them? Howdo we age verify a teenager t make sure he/she isnt 14 or 9? Ban teens from sl.
I am ambivalent on adults as children in sl. I dont mix with them - my friends are older than me actually (strangely, I mix well with the over 50 crowd who, sadly, think they are old fogies whereas they are ex-hippies and punks and remember when the "classics" I love were just released). Rock on you wild and crazy flower-children! I wanna be liek you!
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:03
From: Tegg Bode
Yes sorry its a stong phrase "witch hunt", really I don't see one happening at all,, I caught it from a previous poster, damn infectious phrases spinning out of control :)
"E-acting" nice new term you came up with :)


Oops.

Yeah, I just quoted your use of witch hunt, because it was infront of me and was too lazy to find the original one. Sorry Mate.
Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
11-14-2008 15:04
From: Brenda Connolly
1 user emphatically agreed.


Lol! Brenda please stay in one thread, I keep zipping around from thread to thread and you are making me dizzy! Lol (just jokes)
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:05
From: someone
Anyway, considering the kinda stuff that is accessible to teengers in terms of games, internet, TV and movies, SL is pretty tame.


Agreed. And it is no less "real" as SL is.

From: someone
Ticking a box doesnt bother me. Providing passport, driver license, health card, Socieal Security does.



I don't blame you, I wouldn't give it out either. LL and LL alone can have A Name. Address Credit Card Number in order to access SL. I'm not willfully giving any more to them or to any 3rd Party, especially one with as spotty a reputation as the one they have parterned with.
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
11-14-2008 15:14
From: Brenda Connolly
I'm fine with it. THEY are the one who entered SL under false pretenses. THEY are the ones trying to extort. Let's go to court, make sure Mom and Dad come along.Besides, at least here, such a case would never get to court.You would not be very liable if you ceased once the person admitted to being underage, and even then, an actual RL meeting would have to take place in most cases.

Yeah, but unfortunately in some countries your name and a story could be all over the papers before it was settled. And not everyone in the Justice system sees SL as we do.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:19
From: Tegg Bode
Yeah, but unfortunately in some countries your name and a story could be all over the papers before it was settled. And not everyone in the Justice system sees SL as we do.

Well, sorry once again, but I can't worry about what happens in other countries. The only way to avaoid being hit by a bus is to not go out into the street. If the phony cartoon sex in Sl is a risk for you, perhaps you should not do it at all. *A collective you, I mean*

BTW Teggo, What the hell is "Anatchy" :p
Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
11-14-2008 15:20
From: Tegg Bode
Yeah, but unfortunately in some countries your name and a story could be all over the papers before it was settled. And not everyone in the Justice system sees SL as we do.


truthfully, I think teh justice system have bigger fish to fry.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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11-14-2008 15:21
From: Jig Chippewa
Ticking a box doesnt bother me. Providing passport, driver license, health card, Socieal Security does.
Anyway, considering the kinda stuff that is accessible to teengers in terms of games, internet, TV and movies, SL is pretty tame.
I dont agree with age verifying. I dont agree to providing access to teenagers - how are we gonna police them? Howdo we age verify a teenager t make sure he/she isnt 14 or 9? Ban teens from sl.

I would prefer to just provide a credit card myself whuch to me is no differnet than using my online banking to buy stuff from E-bay. Cash is a pain, only use it to buy a can of drink or lunch from the lunchwagon nowdays.
Kid watching porn without adults consent is a vastly differnet scenario than hiring a young "lady of the night" then finding out she was 6 months too young in a police raid.
How do you ban teens from SL without verification?
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
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11-14-2008 15:21
From: Brenda Connolly
Well, sorry once again, but I can't worry about what happens in other countries. The only way to avaoid being hit by a bus is to not go out into the street. If the phony cartoon sex in Sl is a risk for you, perhaps you should not do it at all. *A collective you, I mean*

BTW Teggo, What the hell is "Anatchy" :p


Anatchy is an Itch you ALWAYS scratch. Or its half a latch key kid.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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11-14-2008 15:22
From: Jig Chippewa
truthfully, I think teh justice system have bigger fish to fry.
Maybe but the media don't seem to mind making big fish stories about sardines.
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Hypatia Callisto
metadea
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 793
11-14-2008 15:23
From: Argent Stonecutter
That'd be a great way to drive people to OpenLife and other grids.

OpenSim is the next generation Internet, Second Life is the next generation Compuserve.


Heh, I'm not so bullish on OpenSim being anything more than "more of the same". It's just an SL clone.

No, I think we haven't yet seen the next wave of virtual worlds yet, and won't until this generation of computers and most especially the newest graphics cards penetrate the market further. I see a lot of graphics tech floating around now that SL just doesnt even begin to tap into, tech that can both deliver more quality and better compression, and no indication that SL can ever leverage it. It would take a whole new SL, rewritten from the ground up.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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11-14-2008 15:29
From: Brenda Connolly
Well, sorry once again, but I can't worry about what happens in other countries. The only way to avaoid being hit by a bus is to not go out into the street. If the phony cartoon sex in Sl is a risk for you, perhaps you should not do it at all. *A collective you, I mean*

BTW Teggo, What the hell is "Anatchy" :p

It's the result of my increasing typing speed conflicting with my attemptes to read the screen not the keyboard as I type. :)
Or I just have some mental ilness that keeps making my type wrong or extra letters, many times I seem to hit the letter sin the wrong order like hitting the space bar befor ethe s as before anf now again maybe my left hand is not syncronusing with my right properly at apeed. I need a braile blaxk letterless keyboarf. :)
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:31
From: someone
I would prefer to just provide a credit card myself whuch to me is no differnet than using my online banking to buy stuff from E-bay.
Agreed


From: someone
Kid watching porn without adults consent is a vastly differnet scenario than hiring a young "lady of the night" then finding out she was 6 months too young in a police raid.


This is where I have the disconnect about all this and SL in general I guess. You aren't hiring anyone to do anything. It's all a computer generated animation. Even if the person is underage, You are not having sex with anybody. I Your mind may interpret it as being real, but it isn't real. I know some countries say it's the same, but I disagree totally. It is censorsing and persecuting someone for their thoughts, dangerous ground to tread on in a place populated by creative people.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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11-14-2008 15:33
From: Hypatia Callisto
Heh, I'm not so bullish on OpenSim being anything more than "more of the same". It's just an SL clone.
Well, first, look at my previous comment about what I mean by drawing the distinction between "Compuserve" and "The Internet". I'm not all that bullish on OpenSim myself, I'm just saying that it's "more like the Inernet" than SL.

That aside... 70% of the webservers out there are Apache on Linux. They're all just "more of the same" distant descendants of the old NCSA server from the early '90s.

From: someone
No, I think we haven't yet seen the next wave of virtual worlds yet, and won't until this generation of computers and most especially the newest graphics cards penetrate the market further.
There's already much "better" tech out there for virtual worlds, but so far I only know of three products that are even anywhere near the state of being "The Internet of virtual worlds", and SL is by far the leader. The rest of the products out there are not even trying to be "The Compuserve" of virtual worlds... they're trying to be "The NBC" of virtual worlds, with content piped through them and them in total control.

Because policy is what matters, more than technology, and SL is the closest to having the kind of policy that will work... for the "Compuserve" slot. OpenSim is trying to be the Apache of virtual worlds. They might make it.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:36
From: Jig Chippewa
Lol! Brenda please stay in one thread, I keep zipping around from thread to thread and you are making me dizzy! Lol (just jokes)


Are you stalking me? :eek:
Argent Stonecutter
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11-14-2008 15:36
From: Brenda Connolly
Are you stalking me? :eek:
SHE'S A WITCH!
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Brenda Connolly
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11-14-2008 15:37
From: Argent Stonecutter
SHE'S A WITCH!


You said _witch_...right?
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