Ginko Bond ???

NO because at present Linden Lab is the only one who processes the money which is done in the US. Until they make the open sim project live and at that point they have stated that they will then become one of many hosts etc its possible then that Lindens might be processed elsewhere although I doubt it. Its mostly the fact that people are able to exchange lindens for USD and this is done on american servers is the problem.

Ah, well, that's what a lot of people would like to know. Presumably the floor will fall out of GPB for a while at least, as the more pessimistic Ginko depositors finally get their hands on their GPBs and dump to recoup some value. And the less pessimistic will sit on the sidelines, hoping some demand will materialize after the flood recedes. (Personally, I'm in the second camp--but possibly only because I have so little at stake that just "watching the tide" may be cheap entertainment.)

Wouldn't have mattered. Unless LL was willing to abandon any business with US credit card companies (and PayPal), they couldn't have done anything different, even if the whole shooting match were hosted in Barbados. (If the Lindex operated exclusively with cash paid to corner bookies, though, LL could host blackjack on the corporate homepage if they wanted.)

But the whole story about the run on Ginko being caused by a gambling-ban liquidity crisis is... how to put this diplomatically? "Beaucoup Soupçonneux", perhaps.

No, it's quite clear why you want the bashing/warning to stop. You know that Nicholas isn't going to disclose anything material that would end the strong speculation that he's running a ponzi scheme. You only want it to quiet down, as you said, so the people who have funds can get theirs out. I asked you at whose expense - clearly it would be new investors. This isn't about feeling superior - I'll leave that to Elex. It's a scam, and you are asking people to be quiet about it so that your friend can get her money out. How is that going to happen? If Ginko can go back to business as usual and use new money to pay off old investors. I wish her luck, but that's not right.

Unforutnately this I would have to agree with and I will repeat again anyone who does business in SL tries to pawn off these bonds as a legit business investment is doing two things lying to themselves in order to convince themselves so they can sell it to others and not feel bad about it but they are never the less perpetuating a scam and dumping it on someone elses shoulders and secondly making themselves look bad in the process. In the case of this person who I do respect I hope I don't see those bonds sold because I would loose a whole lot of respect for that person. Nextly we have to remember that one stock exchange already dropped ginko like a hot potatoe they went to WSE and had to make a second attempt this also speaks volumes. I has convinced me that WSE is not only a huge risk its an unreasonable and unnacceptable risk for even the experienced investor as it doesn't investigate properly.

So does everyone else on this forum. But feel free to keep repeating it. I'll even help:

Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme. Nicholas is running a ponzi scheme.

wot's a ponzi scheme?

You go right ahead, Raymond.

So... now I genuinely wonder what the honorable course of action would be for those of us who find ourselves involuntary owners of GPBs. I mean, I get it: selling them actively entangles some other investor in the web of deceit. But holding them artificially inflates their price--actively deceiving the same investing public.

I suppose the "original sin" (ahem) was keeping a balance in GF at all. It's fashionable to claim that we depositors were all in it for the greed, but--honestly--some of us never had enough in there that the absurd promised interest rate really had any appeal; some of us were so stupid as to believe that we were providing capital for worthwhile in-world investments (kinda like a "bank", ya know?). But I suppose ignorance is no excuse.

Anyway, however guilty we should feel for having ever put that first L$ in that "bank", honestly, what would be the right thing to do now?

It is your bond you can do whatever you want with with it. The opinions of others are just that opinions. I wouldn't listen to any of them and no matter what you do someone on this forum will think it is wrong so just do whatever wrong thing makes you feel good, you can't win. I personnally feel for all those depositors who are in the position of owning GPBs when all they wanted to do was place their money in what they felt was a safe place until they needed it for paying some bill.

You are in the unenviable position of having to either wait it out or sell at a loss. But honestly, it is not your responsibility to make sure that the buyer of GTP (Ginko Toilet Paper) does their due diligence. Anyone who does not do their own due diligence invites this kind of trouble onto his or her self. If you feel inclined to sell, sell - with a clean conscience. As you can see, there are quite a few people who buy into the "well he's been around a long time" argument as if that will make the money come back or perform as needed to meet obligations without dipping into new funds.

once upon a time when i was younger and had more money to throw around I threw some around and I got scammed in the process along with a bunch of other people. We all ate our loss and didn't try to sell our worthless stuff and went after the actual cause which would be the guy that sold us the crap to start with. IN this case it was websites during the internet boom awhile back. I had successfully bought one and done well with it and paid 10k usd and it gave me a return and existed for many many many years. It also is what spurred me on to learn how the dang things worked cause I wanted to know what made it "go". Then it was doing so well I went and paid another company a lot of money and actualyl repeated this process with yet a third one. Both those investments were scams. The first they at least produced the product but didn't live up to the service contract I had to walk away from 5k real world dollars on that one. The next one was a bit cheaper but it was still a good 2k usd. Me and about 20,000 people all around the world took part in the second thing and well again we lost our money they were simply the doorway the actual content never materialized so they were totally useless unless you wanted to produce your own content. Again we lost our money but we didn't try to sell our useless websites to others to make our money back we tried to get what we could out of the guy before he disappeared into thin air.

That was the last time I ever paid anyone to build anything and the start of my internet business building stuff for others. So i'm not perfect either and no one is but the fact of the matter is nothing on this planet would have made me turn around and try to sell this stuff to people. The first situation was a mess I was still busy learning and the product they produced even though I was only just new I could have done better (a monkey could have done better) Yes I could have sold it if i chose however they were not honouring their contract to promote the thing. I had never in my life seen a website get 0 hits lol. To this day any reasonable effort will produce traffic. It was quite obvious they hadn't even bother to get them onto the search engines.

So yeah If i get ripped off I dont turn around and try to rip someone else off in return. I go for the guy doing the ripping off. If i recouperate some money that way great if i dont I accept I messed up and move along. The one thing you wont see me do is try to rip someone else off using the same ploy.

well by doing sums my original deposit is only worth 84% less than what was originally in my account..i feel sorry for my sl brother cos he lost alot more than me with only having 64k worth of bonds instead of the 400k he had in his deposit account..

But if i read what Ginko was saying correctly and doing the sums Ginko had a debt of 150milL$ in depositors alone soo -84% of bonds market value there debt is now only 24mil wiping off 126mil of debt does anyone else get these figures?
well 2b or not 2b the question but feeling shit from 100stories up is the answer so you ride it out OR cash in and ginko losses the debt they owe you well no winners in this but ginko i see but if they still owe 24mil of debt how the frig they gonna pay that if they cant pay it in the first place hence compulsary bonds regardless if u wanted or not..
No only one winner and alot of winers the tiger has bitten but im not gonna get off yet till i bite that tiger back!!!

See I would not do this. I would swallow it and have TWICE. How can you have a clean conscience your on a message board reading and you know what he did. Its wrong and two wrongs dont make a right.

The only person I would consider selling them to is the guy that forced em down my throat in the first place.

There is no winner in this except Ginko, as stated above by Misfit. I would sell. I expect other investors to do their own work and be responsible for their own souls. If they want to buy up these bonds, even despite everything that has been said, why not let them? By selling the bond to him, all you do is give him a discount on the debt he owes you. He may buy your bond anyway.

so you know its not going to pay off but you wont tell someone that? you expect them to research it themselves? that makes no sense and is the rationalization you were just arguing against.

Anyone who KNOWINGLY does this is just as guity as the guy who did it at this point your telling me you know he ripped you off now your going to sell a share or bond or whatever it is to what you admit with your own keyboard is a ponzi scheme? this makes you just as guilty in fact its illegal in and of itself ..

I guess no one really has aconscience anymore you stick with the buyer beware and leave it at that. YOu want to sell something worthless and make money off it and shirk all responsibility fine it doesn't make you any less guilty in fact if it ever does get exposed as a ponzi scheme and people sold these things knowing it was one they would be in trouble too.

Ever heard the quote "possession in 9/10'th of the law?" it doesnt mean what most people think it means

it means that if you have something and its stolen your selling it you to are guilty of selling stolen goods and in fact can go to jail too..

there is another ipso fact in this they talk of depositors being greedy we deserved what we got well the real sharks will be out there now trying to buy as many bonds as they can cos they see $$ chance a gamble on there investments by turning junk bonds back into worthy bonds see what ginko does gain control of these bonds from those who wanna get out now so they lose 84% of there money but the Bond sharks gain on those cos long or short term there maybe a slim chance it turns around and they hold the paper to make a killing on the bonds then again they may not but hey thats what greed is all about one mans sorrow is anothers clear profit such is life and the cogs still turn..

I bet the OP didn't get past reading about the gizzillion% interest before investing either.

You can say alot about Ginko, one thing is for sure they're anything else than stupid.

It looks like he learned from The Federal Reserve, whenever the government had liquidity problems either this was because of trade deficit or military expansion the answer was simple to inflate the market with new (junk)-Treasury Bonds sold to naive investors. Over the past century (more correctly since 1913) the USD has been so inflated, the only wise decision was to always short government bonds, however due to goverments success in it's "secret" investment programmes like south-america, saudi-arabia, iraq, large parts of africa the bonds have been kept artificialy high. It is ofcourse with ginko just like it is with the fed, none of our business to know exactly what the hell they're doing there (they're both acting on behalf of our financial values), rather they'll both tell us that either that is economycally benefetical for us or that they're fighting for our freedoms.

The question is if Ginko is smarter than the Fed, right now the value of usd has just accelerated declining and will most propably continue untill it's value is back to where it belongs (about 10% of current value). Similar for ginko bonds, theres without doubt more sellers than buyers, in other words a realistic target price is somewhere between 0.01 to 0.05 (or much less, wse supports 6 digit decimals on L$ so its not unrealistic to believe it might even reach 0.000001 ).

The only way you that have any ginko bonds can win here is by selling all you can as quick as you can, in hope you can buy back the bonds back at lower prices and resell them later. By holding them and praying "Go up, Go up!" you'll only miss the train and others will benefit from your ignorance.

In other words, if you're generous dont sell them, hold untill they go up. But if you want to get some value back sell all you can now and buy them back for pennies later.

Just my 2 cents of an advice on how to best navigate this sinking ship.

Oh wait, that's a Fonzi scheme. I get them confused. Never mind.

When you put a bond out on the exchange, you don't have 1-1 contact. The person out there is responsible for doing their own due diligence. If they can personally identify you and ask you about it, then you should tell - but if they don't, and they probably won't, they either know what they are getting into, or haven't taken the time. I've spent more than enough energy here talking about it, if they aren't willing to expend as much doing their due diligence, that is not the bondholder's fault.

so its a ponzi scheme (sorry raymond) and its been pointed out as such and 99.99999999% proven by recent events are you telling me that your going to knowingly sell shares to a ponzi scheme? this in and of itself is enough to get anyone banned in sl as ponzi schemes at the very least are against SL tos even.

YOu know whaty our doing but you choose to do it anyway

yes this makes sense and is the reason why sl is in the situation it is and may ultimately be the reason why ginko may find a way to reopen in the future and continue on and the reason why this nick guy is sticking around he found a real bunch of winners here. They whine when they can't get their money but have absolutely no reservations in perpetuating his scheme in an effort to come out on top. Why should he leave he's perfectly safe here he's got people selling his scheme for him now and finding yet more ways to justify more bad decisions.

you made one mistake so your gonna make the issue worse and make more? is this a case of oh well im doomed as it is i might as well just get on with the thing since i'm up to my eyeballs in it already?

This is what seperates someone with strong ethics in business from those who have weaker ethics and are willing to selectively turn a blind eye when its convenient. yes you got what you deserved by the looks of it because your cut from the same cloth as nick is. No longer to i have any problems with people selling their bonds loosing their money as they ahve no problem covering up the truth and being just as dishonest as he is in the long run and relying on "due diligence"

gah it makes me sick

I can safely say that at this point I am done with this issue its looking to me like everyone was very aware even though some say they were not. Knew it was an illegal scheme to start with and are doing exactly what he did because THEY THINK exactly like him. Hence I question the integrity of certain bond sellers who have so called decent reputations in this game..

theer are two sets of people who practice business in this game


those that are willing to loose money for what they believe is right
those who are not willing to loose a dime and dont care what is right as long as they dont loose a dime and will do any say anything in order not to loose that dime

i put the people selling those bonds to others except nick into the latter group and would not buy a prim cube from them as a result of it.

Wilhelm you are of the opinion that the bond holders will never see any return on their investment. Fine, you are entitled to that belief but the fact remains that these bonds last paid dividends on 31 July 2007 and are scheduled to pay again on 31 October 2007. Investors in the WSE just yesterday bought some of these bonds at .12 and sold at .24 making a profit of 100% in a single day. These investors should know the risks that on 31 October 2007 the bonds may be in default by not paying dividends. Again you think the bonds will be in default but other people don't seem to think so. If the orginal depositors in Ginko Financial want to sell their GPBs to investors who are willing to take the risk, who are you to tell them they are wrong to do so just because you think they investors will get ripped off? The investors who buy these bonds at .15 will see a return of 20% of their investment every 3 months and that is the reason they are willing to take the risk.

A scam i a scam hiding behing "due diligence" and knowingly scamming someone makes it no less a scam and the person selling the scam no less a scammer

I dont put something up worth nothing and give it a price tag and then say "hey its okay because its not me that has to decide if its a scam its the other guy now i jut want my money back" that's insane

this is an abuse of "due diligence" its outright scamming and no amount of rationalization will change this

you sell something that you KNOW is not worth the price tag its called ripping people off and I see you advocate doing that and hang with the buyer beware group. Nothing like operating a legitimate business without scamming is there? Must put it all on the shoulders of the buyer and tell him its his fault for not looking into it..

again at this point I have no sympathy for the victims like it or not they should not be selling the bonds in order to get money back and scam people this is not good businesss in fact its downright slimy. What nick has done is relied on the greed of these people to make themselves accessories after the fact looks like its working

LMAO

my conclusion THERE ARE NO VICTIMS HERE they are no better then NICK which is probably what drew them to this thing in the first place..

my opinion is that the bonds are being sold and they should not be sold regardless of price tag put onto it BECAUSE IT WAS A SCAM THEN AND TRANSFERING THE SCAM TO THE VICTIMS AND HAVING THEM SCAM MAKES IT NO LESS A SCAM.

My opinion is that good businessmen having been scammed dont try to turn around and perpetuate the scam they accept that the bonds are to an illegal operation and stick them in the drawer or frame them or something and maybe their grandchildren can sell em off as antiques in the next generation as a part of history..

actually i was be sarcastic in my approach to life in general but i see you judge people openly with out actually knowing who they are i have never said i was going to buy or sell my junk bonds i am going to hold onto them but thats cos im not going to take an 84% Loss laying down but not sell them either to somebody else your right nick be the main buyer if any but if and when he buys them back at what they cost me originally and i didnt take these volintary they was forced onto me..
you have ethics in business well done but alas 90% of busineses in Real World dont share that same ethics code as you point of fact look at microsofts monopoly of the operation systems for reference..
but dont judge me by my words cos to quote what i said and take it out of context makes u as bad as nick i dont give a frig what is or isnt the case in these forums but with out written proof without facts from a fraud investigator its all hearsay guessing and no truth in wether a ponzi or not a ponzi so speculation dont count cos thats is all it is speculation.