Bay City Land Value -- Worth L$140/m2?

He's fixed the "For Sell" signs now they say "For Sale".

The only people I can see wanting these parcels at these prices are the people who pay mega amounts for classifieds, if you're paying 400,000 Linden Dollars a week, then you might see this as a worthwhile opportunity.

However those people generally have much bigger plots than those being offered.

This has always been my suspicion about these plots. They won't develop as the Lindens intend unless they are prepared to act like some sort of planning permission office and refuse to turn land over to people who are just going to stick a premium price on it and then put it up for sale.

Like Mari says, in the old Linden "managed" city and suburb areas there are numerous plots up for sale at extremely high prices and others being squatted on by opportunist land speculators. Perhaps if this is the first part of a *much* larger area, they'll spam the land prices and destroy the 'value' these plots have.

I'll probably get hissed at for saying it, but to me much of the 'land sale business' on the mainland seems to be more about extorting money out of people and spoiling the landscapes of sims than anything else. Many of these 'development' companies just seem to hack land up, pancake it into awful terraces and then shove the most intrusive and unnecessary sign on it that they can. I have a feel that whatever hard work may have been done within Bay City, it will be undone by these sorts of people and their greed.

You speak truth again. It's kind of sad, but a kind of fitting commentary on the state of Second Life at the moment, particularly the mainland. If the Lindens were in anyway serious about such areas taking off, they should have given land out on the basis of applications - i.e. you fill a form in specifying what you intend to do with the land on the basis of which the application is approved. The whole allocation done by vetting. LL would then act as a proper 'estate' manager over these regions, kicking out anyone who attempts to land-flip or breaks whatever build stipulations are in place.

Failing that, they should have turned it over to a competent private estate manager and let them do all the allocations to people, keep the carpet-baggers out and then resumed management after the fray.

Perhaps this may be a wake-up call for the Lindens as to the state of play with mainland.

But you know, pigs might fly too.

There's a wide range of "disposable income" among Second Life users. I suspect this accounts for the high prices.

Some folks with high disposable incomes may have gotten the notion there's something special about Bay City parcels.

It's just more prims, more textures, more scripts, exactly like all the rest of SL, right? Nothing special about it at all, really, so far as can see. Double prim, yes, but that's not unique, a not fundamentally different, just more crowded with prims in some spots and emptier of prims in other spots. I suspect most visitors don't even notice the difference between double prim areas and normal areas, excepting perhaps when the pivot a high prim site into view and slows things down while the prims and their textures load.

I did a little poking around, an of the ones I looked at, they were all bought by people speculating on the land price. One person was known more for rentals, so dat's someting -- but the rest were lookin' for a quick turnaround and a profit.



Yup. One need only look at the cost of plots in Shermerville or Nova Albion. Some six-digit places that have sat, and will continue to. Beautiful areas, double prims -- but not worth the price the speculators paid for them. Bay City is going to be far worse than this, IMO. Swaths of "For Sell" plots for months, even years, and each of those makes the area *less* desirable, not more.



No hissing here. You have a big point. One could buy one of those sims and try to make it something unique, that fits a landscape, and is desirable in its initial appearance. This is one of the reasons Caledon and even Ansche Chung's places work. Terracing a sim and tossing some spinning "For Sell" signs? This does not make me interested. It's why I've never considered expanding beyond the cunk of on-protected-waterfront mainland I have now. To me, most of the bland, terraced mainland plots have no value to me. And now, Bay City is sinking as well.

I had been willing to pay a pretty big chunk of Lindens this weekend. Well over market value. As the time wears on and I see what Bay City is becoming, I find my pursestrings growing tighter and tighter.

This had potential: http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=276023

This, not so much: http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=279284

I'm glad I got lots of before piccies.

Mari

I'm still looking for a "Point and Laugh" animation. Anyone sees one, I'd appreciate knowing. Think I'll have cause to use it soon.

Well there will be no hacking up of land in Bay City. No terraform, no join.

I'm very sad about this.

A great idea, but impossible to execute when left to the public at large, with no real rules or covenants.

Unfortunately, planned communities on the mainland only work when there is a dictator in charge with autoreturn. I love SL and have a huge amount of fun making these types of themed communities; and they're all very successful. But I think it's a shame that the only way to participate in this type of experiment is to either buy whole sims and do it all yourself, or just rent from someone who did.

If these land-flippers only knew how profitable it can be to buy up sims and USE them, instead of flipping them. Mainland sims can be cash cows: they can bring just as much income as an island, but they're $100 cheaper a month. Unfortunately, scum-sucking land-flippers generally aren't creative, don't love SL, and don't have the desire to spend any time helping residents.

And by blatantly ruining Bay City and thumbing their noses at the Lindens, the flippers may find themselves on the wrong side of a drastic ban, just like ad-farmers. Sure, LL makes money no matter who buys the plots, but I don't for a minute think that the Lindens are happy to see Bay City become a blight and a huge failure in the eyes of the public.

--Avion

I've been trying to think of a way to help people get into Bay City. Or, if you want to be cynical about it, I've been trying to think of a way to make money out of Bay City.

Here's my offer.
You imagine what you'd pay per month to live in Bay City and what size parcel you want.
You pay me one month rent up front. Then I'll bid 5 times that on a parcel of your requested size.
If I win you get the parcel for a month and then can continue to rent for the same amount each month.
If I don't win or you don't want me to keep bidding on future parcels then you get your money back.

I guess for a reasonable chance of winning you'd have to offer somewhere around L$40000 per month.

IM me in game with offers or suggestions.

I popped over there a while ago.
Cheering news is that there are a few people building on their own auction-bought places right now.

I'm not sure what to say about *a house* that has been plonked on a *resold* parcel.
The best I can say is that it's kinda cute in a SL diversity sort of way.

Nah, this is more of a Nelson Muntz ""haw-haw" thing.

I think you're giving up REALLY early. I mean these auctions started closing not even 24 hours ago. In a few days, couple weeks, we'll see what kind of residents fill these sims.

I saw you there! I even said hello but you were pre-occupied! Have you got any exciting plans for your plots?

I do have a faint hope, but now it will depend on what the place looks like before I buy. If it's nothing but spinning signs, forget it.

My partner and I are setting up a house on one of the lots I won. (Accidentally got two, long story. *blush*) We have some very specific plans for decor and private RP at the house, and we really hope our neighbors have the same kind of ideas. Someone nearby is putting up a 50s-themed sock-hop, and my neighbor to the south is doing something kind of interesting, but I haven't figured out what it is yet.

I may sell the other lot I purchased, but will let it go at the price I paid if I do, since it was more or less a mistake.

EDIT: And I'm sorry I didn't notice you saying hello. I had IMs open and a wiggly baby on my lap.

Welcome to Bay City Wildefire, glad to have persons like you there (...after all).

My Partner and I took a stroll through Bay City to check out the "purty" spinning signs. (And a HUGE Thank You!! to the person who dropped a "Point and Laugh" animation on me!!)

Something we noticed in the purchased parcels - most that we saw were owned by Germans (judging by their profiles). Errrmmm....weren't a lot of Europeans selling off and tiering down awhile back due to the VAT? *scratches head*

~ ~ ~

In the "It's a small (SL) world category" - one of the land parcels is owned by a man that is in the same group as my neighbor-with-the-security-orb-that-overlaps-my-land!! What was even more amusing was the guy was putting the same helicopter that sits on the roof of my neighbor's house on top of one of the "For Sale" signs.

VAT is a consumer tax, if you're a business you can pass it on. Not sure how they do that in Second Life mind you, but business can avoid VAT.

In case someone missed this.... i think there will be much space for anyone, if not today....
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Saturday, May 24th, 2008 at 5:28 PM by: Michael Linden
....
Hmm, in case it wasn’t clear from all the open edges, roads and canals … Bay City will expand in the future!

Great, more development on the already well-established mainland, despite 4 continents being made/completed in the last year.

I think most people did realize, but hopefully the mention will cut down on some of the worst of the speculation.

Prices did seem to drop a bit today. Not enough but a bit..

There was a nice mid-size parcel I had my eye on that went for L$85k. Still a silly price (for me) but not as silly as yesterdays.

About that "They won't develop as the Lindens intend" thing... Exactly what *do* they intend, anyways?

I find it hard to believe that Linden Lab didn't forsee all the spinning "for sale" signs and land flippers. Surely, at some point at least *one* person there said "Hey, do you think...."

I think they knew full well how this was going to go, at least initially. They may have optimistic hopes for the long-term outcome, but I don't think they ever intended to do anything in the near future to ensure that the project turns out nice.

.

I'd love to have one of them too, or be pointed in the right direction for one.

Mari