Ageplay Banned?

Not till they discover the general opionion about us.

Term 'skunkfucker'and 'zoophilia' ring a bell?
MTV?
Vanity fair?

Hmmm?

There is a LOT on sl that is in RL totally immoral and despicable. If they ban all of those, kiss the Gor sims, the battlesims, and anything like that good bye.

But as I said, it's not about that.

We used to have TOTAL freedom.
Now we don't anymore. Doesn't that irk you?

(if no, would it irk you if it were something else they'd have banned? Like, let's say, freedom of speech?)

Here's a government study that reports on child abuse. An important point is that both neglect and physical abuse are much more common (roughly twice as common) than sexual abuse. That may be off because of underreporting, but it's likely in the right ballpark.

I realize this is getting further off topic, but I believe the need for hard data justifies it.

For me, there's nothing so morally repugnant as war, and yet people are still free to fight fake battles using fake weapons in SL.

"As many posters seem to have ignored, there does NOT appear to be a ban on Ageplay, sexual or otherwise. There is a ban on *advertising* sexual ageplay."

Granted for the sake of argument, though that is by no means clear. Now ban "advertising" on other roleplay of illicit activities, like prostitution, rape, gambling, drugs, slavery.....and so on and on and on and on...

the difference being of course that computer gaming online and off uses Warfare as a staple of their entire existance.

The fact that Second Life is only partly about fighting is one of its selling points for many. As ooposed to WOW, etc.

Perhaps someday it will be different. But I dont think Linden Labs is going to change society.

another case where this 4 million number comes back to haunt us.

Just seems that since its so popular the reporter feels Edwards needs an offical stand on goings on. When in reality theres far less people in Second Life than that.

I wasnt aware of either the jail bait or the rape fantasy club. These would definitely count as advertizing.

Quite so.

coco

In regard to the attempted child-abduction behind my daughter's school:



In regard to letting my kids ride their bikes around in the neighbourhood where the guy is still at large:



Dude. You BET having an elementary school kid fighting off an abduction behind your own kid's school is scary.

I drive past that 'single datapoint' every day. I deal with this issue every. single. day. As does every other parent for miles around.

I'm not teaching my kids to live in terror. The perpetrator is teaching terror.

"Heh, sure, go on kids - I don't wanna teach terror, have a great time at the park!" Yeah, right.

You've certainly made your point that child neglect is more prevalent, but not in the manner you intended perhaps.

If we had free speech in this forum (we don't, it's Resident Answers) I'd say a *lot* more.




Nobody has ever had 'total freedom' either in word or deed on the grid. Ever.

If anybody thought they did, they are incredibly mistaken.

The problem is its a fine line. Many, if not most of us, find certain activities morally repugnant. Examples could include war, violence of any kind, drinking, gambling, any sexual activitiy, eating meat... thelist goes on and on. GENERALLY speaking the best way to deal with these issues IN SL is to avoid them. For example, I have a male friend who is really into the Gor thing, which I don't get at all. I am NOT about to become anyone's slave, I find the whole, entire concept degrading. He has a right to play and enjoy himself an dI am not even remotely interested in stopping him.

There are certain activities in RL which are clearly illegal, among them being rape, shhoting people without just cause, slavery etc. Also, prostitution and gambling are illegal in many jurisdictions. Depicting such activities is not illegal, at least in the US.

Adults having sexual activity with children is generally illegal just about everywhere, although I am sure there are exceptions. However, in much, if not all of the US and inmuch of Europe and Latin America even the depiction of such activities ARE illegal ["child porn"]. I am not clear on exactly what the law is, but I believe that even the depiction of an adult, passing as a child, while engaged in sexual activity could very possibly be illegal. I believe LLs actions inthis regard are not only justified but are probably not enough. To protect themselves and ALL of the rest of us, sexual age play should be banned outright.

Do I find rape play disgusting? Yes. Should it be banned ? No.

Do I find domestic violence disgusting? Yes. Should it be banned ? No.

Do I find sexual age play disgusting? Yes. Should it be banned? Yes!!!

I'm not sure if I have made any sense here at all, but I tried.

Me, too. Well said, Desmond.

coco

I stand by my post earlier about virtual and/or other simulated child porn. Its just plain wrong and people who indulge in this even on a virtual basis need medical help before the enacted virtual desire becomes translated into real life sexual activity. On this point I cannot accept the argument that First and Second Life are separate

But having said that I also do agree with some here who have commented that it would be best if Linden Labs makes a clear statement about this on either their blog or TOS together with a reminder for people to review it and be aware of that fuzzy line over which they must not step.

Finally no one likes censorship and I for one understand the concerns of others who feel that their role-play may also be placed beyond the pale. I figure those concerns are reasonably addressed in Lindens Community Standards, in particular the "Big Six" section (Number 1) that relates to Intolerance. The link is here, please read it.

Regards

John

http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

I don't understand why some people are still whining on, supporting ageplay by saying that stopping it is 'an expression of free speech'.

Understand this : there is no "first amendment" in Second Life. It is not the US, the Constitution does not apply in any shape or form here. The only 'rights' we have are those that Linden Lab grant us in the Terms of Service, which they can revoke at any time for any or no reason. That is not going to change. Period. "Civil rights" groups can shout as much as they like, but there is nothing at all you can do.

Linden Lab and Second Life is a private organisation, if you don't like the rules, then leave. It's really that simple.

Broccoli

"I am not clear on exactly what the law is, but I believe that even the depiction of an adult, passing as a child, while engaged in sexual activity could very possibly be illegal."

In the US, it is only illegal if the derpicting materials are lifelike (or real).

And SL, definately doesn't.

Could it not also be argued that in some localities, images of a sexual nature are illegal, regardless of type presented - therefore sex should not be allowed on Second Life at all?

Hmn... I wonder if this ends up somewhere involved with ACLU v Ashcroft?

Jes curious, really.

Mari

The first amendement means nothing in SL, and also means nothing to me in RL. I'm not american, never read the damn thing, couldn't care less.

But I do feel threatened by these events. LL starts by getting rid of negative attention by doing this, for the moment forgetting the very distinct difference between PG and sexual ageplay, like most do.

Next thing, the press will find something new about SL that they can write negatively about, you know how they love doing that, and LL will crack down on that. And then the next thing, and then the next thing...

Thus, taking all the fun out of the game for a lot of people.

I love SL. I'm an addict. I'm not an ageplayer, and not into that kind of stuff. But it's "your world your imagination", also mine, also the next guy. I like SL to stay exactly the way it is, thank you very much.

If I see something on SL I don't like, I TP to the next sim. There's worse things then playing pretend kids.

I don't care if they have full rights to take away this, I understan it's not a democracy and that we never had real freedoms to begin with.

I do care about them changing a game that I love, and that they're taking all the fun out of it for some of my friends.

Yes, I am a (sexual) ageplayer friend. I don't care: I can see the distinction betweeen real and SL.

And sexual ageplay makes as much RL child rapists as Grand Theft Auto makes carjackers and murderers.

And so it begins.

Doubters of the slippery slope, there you have it.

Yumi--are you saying that the Loli group is an ageplay group?

To the guy taht said your not teaching terror to your children stop and think. Your keeping them locked up at home due to fear that someone may grab them up. While your trying to protect them your not going to be able to protect them from everything their entire lives without them being sheltered which they will lose grip with realitiy and when they need to go out into the real world they wont be ready for it. Or they will learn to be afraid of human contact or being out in public situations or may become paranoid.

I myself dont have a problem with sexual age play so long as it is 2 adults behind the avatars I cant prove otherwise really and no one really can. I could say im 80 or 2000 years old that doesnt make it true and most people know when to shut off the line between reality and virtual realitiy. People also awhile back that brought up the term lolita. Most of the time Lolita refers to people over the age of 18 that look younger they are over 18 and thus its legal. There is an obvious distiction between the two. While i do find it immoral to a degree for imagery purposes i dont think it right to criticize them when we have our own quirks. Establishments that advertise it i agree are a bit awkward and i dont think there should be places that purposly set it out.

I do find that many people continually tag age players as pedophiles but this is really an off topic thing if you know what age play sexual or otherwise is about. I myself dont partake in it. I have children in SL 4 actually, They are played by other avatars and their avatars age varies. One is younger then me the rest are older in real life. My Club in SL was also rated Child Safe (meaning safe for child avatars) in the sense that we arnt overtly sexual in nature and that we dont discriminate who is allowed to be there.

I can see to a degree why LL wanna ban advertising they just have to be careful where they tread with it.

Most likely, yes they do. Of all the people I know that hate furries, bestiality is their #1 reason for hating us, it doesn't matter if we have anything to do with the sexual side or not.

This variation of the term Lolita is only true in the Porn Industry - Out of necessity, since child porn is illegal.

Prior to this Lolita refered to an underaged Temptress (and still does) - Becuase it is rooted in the book Lolita by Nabakov

Yes the same one referenced in the line "That book by Nabakov" in Police's Dont stand so Close to me which is also about a underage temptress.

So - no Lolita doesnt mean over 18 but looks younger - It means an underage sexual temptress.

The best Porn can do to simulate that is 18 year olds who look younger. Thus leading to what you describe.

The fact that this kink is a fairly common sexual fantasy amoung men (mainly) is the root behind all this sexual ageplay in the first place.

How common is debateable - but its obvious theres a huge ammount of Teen Porn on the Internet.

I think people are more comfortable with the late teen stuff than the pre teen stuff, But its still virtual depections of Adult Avs (usually well over 1 and child avs. (under 1

Im guessing the late teen sexual ageplayers in SL will follow the internet's lead and do the "Barely Legal" stuff.

I dunno about "slippery slope." It's my personal opinion (take it or leave it) that rape of any person/avatar (man, women or child) should not be held up as an example of free speech.

Uh huh. Your personal opinion — and one you'd apparently like to see imposed on everyone else.

Please, do list all your kinks, fantasies, fetishes and general interests. I'd like to make a list of suggested verboten topics to submit to LL.

Yes.

On June 26, 2003 the Supreme Court struck down all sodomy laws in the United States as unconsitutional. You can read the decision here:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/02pdf/02-102.pdf

Granted, many sodomy laws remain on the books--as do laws about eating peanuts in public, and spitting on sidewalks--but that does not mean they're enforceable. In the case of sodomy laws, whether they're on the books or not, they cannot be legally enforced since the Supreme Court ruling.



Shakespeare does say that Juliet is two weeks shy of her 13th Birthday, but no where in the play does he provide Romeo's age. However, Romeo is clearly not an adult, as evidenced by his behavoir throughout the play--behavior that suggests his development has not passed the age of 18. Further, the assertion that Italians of the time (of the play, not during the Elizabethan age) married their girls off so young misses the point of the play. Shakespeare is writing about events in his own past, not just ours. Elizabethan society would have frowned on marriage at such a fragile age, and indeed, Shakespeare uses that attitude to manipulate his audience by setting his play at the time and location he did. Romeo and Juliet is not some wonderful romance about two young people, it's a TRAGEDY about two youth who run afoul of the stars and END UP STONE COLD DEAD precisely because their age has not sufficently prepared them for the demands of true love. You've drawn a false analogy.

Look, for me it comes down to this--I have NO problems with someone roleplaying a child in SL--provided that's what they're doing. I have, however, problems with people roleplaying sexual predators who target children, just as I have problems with people who claim to "role play" a child but try to gain entrance to Nightclubs on the basis of "I'm not sexually roleplaying my child, I'm just playing a kid." Nonsense. Go hit the swingsets and roleplay a child. If you want to roleplay a child trying to sneak into a nightclub (that does happen in RL), fine. But don't bitch and moan when I roleplay an adult and throw your ass out of a place no child would have access in real life. If you want to roleplay a child out shopping for new clothes, expect me to roleplay an adult shopkeeper who wants to know where your parents are.

And yes, I've encountered quite the opposite too, people RPing children who want to be treated like children, up to and including having a family to roleplay with. THAT I can live with. But let this point not be missed--the reason so many residents are suspicious of child roleplayers is because they start asking to be treated like adults. Roleplay a child all you want, but as far as I'm concerned, if you roleplay a child, expect to be treated like one--UP TO AND INCLUDING the community deciding that you need to be protected against sexual predation.

Kam