Conversion

I believe the crux of the matter lies in the fact that what I said I would say to someone trying to convert me to their religion has been taken as a general statement. So be it, truthfully it is what I believe, although I didn't intend it so broadly. It has been taken as such and I have already apologized to anyone who was offended. Some quickly jumped in to deny they were offended though. Except Melita. I still think it's a stretch to say "I have not seen anyone lob the same types of ridicule at those of differing beliefs, as you have." All I've done is defend what I originally said in answer to the OPs question and I stand by it.

:: is still wondering where to find these evangelicals ::
seriously, forum disscussions of religion are just to slow and prone to lingering misinterpretation of meaning with no ability to immediately clarify a statement.

I think now is the time I'm supposed to look furtively around, lean over and quietly ask, "So...d'you wanna go back to my place?"

(Kidding!!!!!!!)

Try here:
Evangelical Virtual Seminary

lol, it might be more productive than continuing a discussion here

Actually, the phrase used in RA was , a long time ago, "Do you want sex now?'

hehe..

In my uber-geekiness, I was actually referencing Monty Python. "Dead Parrot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

rofl - it's not dead, it's resting - no, no, it's stunned

My stepmother got my father to convert to Christianity from Judaism a few years ago. He did a great job raising me Jewish and I would never convert, even if I'm not practicing right now.

I made the mistake of telling my stepmother that when I was in the depths of my issues with my impending divorce that I prayed to Jesus along with all the other holy folk I send messages out to. She jumped on that like red meat and started trying to get me to convert. I had a ton of reasons why I will never do that and one day I got an email from my dad addressing my issues one by one in long paragraphs. There's only one problem: My dad never writes long emails. I replied saying I wanted to table the discussion until we were together in person.

A few weeks later, the stepmom accidentally cc'ed me on an email she was sending the actual creator of the long email, a man from their church. In the email she thanked him for writing it and told him they were going to work on me when they saw me in August. I let my dad know that she had accidentally sent it to me and he was unaware of the first email that she had signed his name to.

She lied in order to get me to come to Jesus, who I believe was not big on lying. It's this kind of hypocrisy that I can't stand. Along with the "my way or the highway" stance on things.

I believe there are many paths to the same destination and we are all heading there, no matter what name we put on the unnameable.

Yes.I know.

That ALL kinds of wrong.

I agree with this.

You need to distance yourself from that step-mother though.

There's a critical difference you're missing, but i'm nearly positive you won't see it or don't care. The snide and demeaning comments you posted were directed at peoples religious beliefs, AND at the people who believe in them. Any such comments you got in return weren't directed at your NON belief, or you because of that fact, were they? I didn't see any... The one's you got were squarely directed at your comments themselves, BECAUSE of their snide and diminuitive nature. The quoted part above that you think is a stretch is actually true. Not one comment lead me to believe that anyone even cares what you believe or don't believe, I sure don't.. but it's not hard to see that many here do NOT appreciate that kind, or any kind of blatant intolerance of others.

Well said. I think any questions we have that extend beyond the nuts and bolts of everyday life and the 'rational' experience need to be answered on a personal level. That's what conscience is for.

The trouble with rationality is that it cannot allow for anything without explanation and it is a very cold mode of thinking because of that. Shakespeare put it very simply in Hamlet:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Frankly, I'm a much more prudish about discussing issues of spirituality with others than I ever was about sex and sexuality. A good deal of trust and openness is needed before we can really exchange views on these matters and it is very difficult to be certain that we are using even a vaguely similar frame of reference when the subject is opened. I still marvel that folk readily equate/dismiss mention of God with a belief in Santa's first cousin wearing a night shirt, for instance.

Sure it can. "We don't know" is a perfectly rational statement.

That'll teach me for being vague. I guess I should have said "rationality cannot allow for anything without a rational explanation".

I attend evensong as a creed of civilized behaviour.
BUT
When I was 21 I died in the midst of a terrible fever and was brought back to life.
Last sept I died again in a huge seizure as I choked on my own tongue. Brought back again, but weakened.
In each case here was NO evidence of anything there in my deathtime. Just emptiness. Cosmic Zero.
Faith is for ourselves on the earth. If I believe there is something that will better me, I'll take part in its function. But I expect nothing when I die. I do not think I will hear the mermaids singing.

"We don't know yet".

Rationality doesn't allow for the declaration that a rational explanation is inherently not possible, but that's kind of recursive.

Actually, as I keep pointing out, the "snide and demeaning comments" I posted were directed at someone who was trying to convert me to his religion. And if and when that happens I have every intention of being just as snide and demeaning to that over-aggressive evangelist. I would never speak thus to anyone else.

Anyone who knows me would agree you would have a hard time finding someone more tolerant than I. Tolerance does not require one to approve of everything. My family and several friends, are in fact, religious and I have never been snide, demeaning or intolerant of them. Now if they were to ever try to convert me, I would say something along the lines of my original answer to the OP and it would be snide and demeaning indeed. To try and convert someone to your beliefs is the biggest insult of what they believe that you could ever give. Try and explain that to a Christian trying to save people

I don't expect anyone to get this. This post has gone on for 12 pages with mostly me trying to get this one point across but no one can see past the actual words I said, as though who I said them to and the circumstances under which they were said are irrelevant. So be it. I am not offended, just a bit frustrated at not being able to get my point across. And truthfully, I suspect I am not the only one

Jig - Wow! I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who has had 2 near death experiences. I totally agree with your deduction that faith is for the living. I think that at our death we will see that all our struggle has been for nothing.

My favorite saying is "There is always something that you don't know, the knowing of which will change everything."

eh... I dunno, granted it'd be great to give em lessons on arguments they may hear against whatever brand they're selling, but it just smacks too much of invasion... as if the reverse of them just walking into my living was ok too... I was kinda hoping to find the free range variety... see if I couldn't convert them =)