Conversion

You're not a machine code evangelist are you?

I've never met anyone in SL who tried to make me become religious. I am semi-interested in hearing about people's spiritual journeys, so if I had time I'd probably give them a minute or two.

I was raised by wolves and have no religious beliefs, but instead have a kind of cobbled-together idea of how the universe works, which includes the idea that more forces are at work than I can comprehend. I think all roads, so to speak, lead to Rome - that the many ways people approach things outside the narrow range of the physical - religious or not - all head to the same place in the end.

Of course, in my wolfishness I believe people's genuine desire for the spiritual is hijacked by the nefarious in the name of organised religion, but I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, and I should be respectful (if I'm not it is bad of me), in any case.

I'm a cybernihilist. All software sucks, all hardware sucks.

So does that Mean Gates is like Jesus (Vista was the Reformation, 7 will be the Inquisition), Jobs is Shiva, and the Linux people are like Hare Krishnahs?

I'm not anti-religion by any means, and belong to the Unitarian Universalist group in SL. So I enjoy having discussions about spiritual beliefs, and am interested in what others believe. That said, I have very little tolerance for people who want to convert me, and even less for the hypocrits...

I've only met two people who tried to convert me during my time in SL. The most annoying was the curmudgeonly older guy who was prosletyzing at the same time as he was trying desperately to get in my pants. The other guy, I'm not sure if he was more interested in converting me to his religion, or to his sub!

As a matter of fact your assertion is utterly wrong. The definition of faith is the capacity to believe in something of which you cannot have proof. Rationality is a pretty much useless quality in this respect, limited as it is by what we actually know for certain, which is precious little in my truly skeptical opinion.

Is it just me or aren't you both saying the same thing?

Well, I was going to stay out of this one, but it's my favorite topic of discussion. So be it.

First, I've been quite fortunate in that only once did someone try converting me to their religion in SL - and I promptly TP'd away. Must have been slightly disheartening for him.

I'd like to make a statement here, though, concerning Imagin's statements (and not, I'd like to make clear, about Imagin herself), as they represent a very common and prevalent position. I am a "person of faith" and am frankly tired of the assertion that someone who believes in God is somehow lacking in deductive reasoning or is superstitious in some way.

When making such broad statements, it helps to keep in mind that not all religions are based on literal interpretations of scripture, rewards after death, the denial of scientific investigation and evidence, or hold ideas such as original sin or the transfiguration as key concepts.

The concept of faith, in and of itself, does not lend itself to irrationality. It is a belief in something for which there is no direct evidence. This means that I have faith in string theory - I have no observations or evidence to support it, just some numbers and a series of quantum behaviors that fit the notion nicely. Equally, I have faith that God exists, in that it is a condition which makes the most sense to me for a number of reasons. There are some observations which seem to indicate this is a reality, one which I personally take stock in. Your mileage may vary.

In what way do I not think for myself? Rather, I suggest that I do think for myself, as I do not take the assertions of atheists (or others of differing persuasions) to heart simply because they themselves see nothing to support my particular position. Of course, we shouldn't do that in everything; if the electrician says the current will do such-and-so I'll believe him, because he's the electrician. If the physicist says this leads to thus, I'm inclined to trust his judgement because he's the physicist. Do I believe the electrician and physicist are infallible? Of course not. I regard philosophers, theologians, atheists and myself in the same light. But it helps to know something of electricity, and physics, and philosophy when making one's own judgments in those fields.

To judge someone as irrational or unthinking because they hold a faith in the existence of God is arrogant. It implies one is somehow superior in intellect to someone else, based only on a conclusion drawn from a single facet of someone else's existence and experience. It is the very epitome of unscientific thinking. Not to pin Imagin alone for the slight, because it is an opinion held by a great many people, but I will be very happy to see a day when people take more trouble to accept the views of others than they do to belittle others for their views.

You do? I don't. String theory doesn't necessarily describe anything real. It may be useful, I'm not a good enough quantum mechanic to say, but having faith in that aspect of string theory is like having faith in a table.

Well, I can perform a test for the existence of a table.

No, you're quite right. Jeez, I can be a real dumbass on an empty stomach.

I guess my (empty)gut reaction was to the casual dismissal of faith itself, which is a big red rag for me when folk start talking about rationality.

But I can't test for the existence of your table, I have to take your word for it. Luckily, I don't need to know if your table exists or not, it doesn't matter to me. Same thing is true of string theory. I don't need to care if neutrons are strings or stable defects in a quantum graph or any of the other metaphors people come up with to visualize the mathematics that seems to be useful.

Is that Mr.Schrödinger's cat scratching at the door?

Well we have had political threads this week, check. Now here is the religious thread, check. I guess most of the others could be considered the sex thread, check. We have covered the big three. Now can we get back to talking SL?

Stay tuned! Gorean Teenage Gambling Nekos- Coming Soon To a Sim Near YOU!!!

There are dozens of threads regarding SL that you can go participate in if you do not like this one.

Yeah, your right. I was just trying to be silly. I should know better.. especially since I never got the hang of making the funny faces appear here.

You have to take the word of others for plenty of things - with no certainty whatsoever that they are correct - and even your own perception of the world is a limited tool. We operate on faith all the time. It's how we're programmed and very often the interface between the various operating systems is borked.

It's like talking to a Mac with some folk.


Bohhhhhh-ringgggg!

You started it, Windy.

ETA: My apologies, Whimsy. I was reading your name as 'Windsweptgold'. I'm afraid I'm not doing very well today. I neglected to eat and my brain seems to be disputing the oversight with my stomach.

Same thing is true of other devices used to describe things that exist beyond our personal spheres of observation. It's a beautiful thing, really.

No, this is the philosophy thread. The religious thread is tomorrow, being Friday and all.

No-one inworld has tried to convert me to any faith, or burdened my SL with arguments about religion or the lack thereof.

You have to come to the forums for that.

Yes

HAHAHAHAHA

Well said, Ghosty.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Well, except for the string theory part. I don't buy that one yet.