Camping Chair

I'd consider most of those to be promotions.

I'd say no model bots, except some people love those jobs. They are often not bots but employees.

(I've now seen some places that have built mannequins and put them on spinning discs instead, though. It works the same, really, if a bit creepy. The silver mannequins reminded me of a Dr. Who ep.)

Midnight Mania is certainly a promotion and only requires someone being there for a few seconds. It also gives a prize for their trouble, unlike camping's laughably slow return.

They all drive up traffic, all of them.

Complaining that a parcel that advertises camping and allows real avatars to engage in camping artificially inflates traffic is somewhat odd. People go there to camp, as the parcel advertises.

The problem is traffic, not camping.

wait, isn't a dance pad a camper?

"Falsely" drive up traffic is, I think, the key point here.

Bots are not customers.

There's nothing false about a traffic score.

If traffic isn't false there would never be any venues with piles of green dots at the corners!

It started with getting rid of hives of bots in skyboxes or hidden underground which falsely inflated traffic...then it was realised that landowners could place their bots on campers appearing 'legit' so all camping has to go where a means to inflate traffic.

Huge banks of lucky chairs ditto...dance pads if giving payment have to go.

Modelling can stay at present.

LL have asked not to be informed of camping/bots (AR's)...its obvious where they are, you just check for green dots so they are working their way around the grid or check accounts for masses of debits of L$2 lollll

Abuse any system and it kills it for everyone...camping was a good way to give newbies money which then filters through the economy and many successful SL'ers started out as campers. It was long overdue that the huge empty malls charging high rents based on their 'high traffic' be exposed for their bots at 1000m.

Traffic will have to start from scratch again anyway for many residents effected by adult moves, search filters and profile pick changes.

there is when you have 20 alts there driving up fake numbers..
treasure hunts and events are activities to get exposure which will give you traffic where bots and camping will do nothing but drive up numbers to give exposure..it's like giving yourself the traffic numbers..

traffic was never the issue..fake traffic was..

I'm normally on the XStreet forums, but decided I would stroll over here today & happened to stumble upon this camping thread. Just so you know (Those that are not familiar with me already) I'm a camping systems designer.

I've been following this topic closely as soon it first came out & started with just bots as its target knowing that eventually it would move to include some forms of camping uses as well. I say uses because camping itself is NOT banned, just the uses that unfairly inflates traffic (As others on this thread have pointed out & provided the blog link again).

My business has definitely felt the impact of both the confused user that stopped buying thinking camping was really banned & the abusive user that knowing abused traffic in mass quantities with the systems that stopped buying after they got shut down. Bellow is a few questions & answers that may help those still interested in the camping topic.

Do I still sell camping systems & customize them? YES - (It's legal)

Is it legal for me to manufacture & sell camping systems? YES - (And I have letter from jack linden to back that up)

Is camping Banned in SL? NO - (Traffic falsification is banned)

Do I provide camping as well? YES - (I have subdivided my land & removed it from search so that I may provide camping & not have the campers counted in places search traffic.)

Are all camping systems considered gaming traffic? NO - (One must first understand that there are several different types of camping system which range from, but are not limited to: L$ camping, % commission sales camping, item camping, Prize chairs, Model camping, demonstration camping, Entertainment camping, Customer support camping, Profile picks camping, Tips camping, Quiz camping, Trivia camping, & Much much more..... No matter which system you have, it all comes down to how you use it.)

So, What would be the legal uses of those systems then? - (Common sense is the first rule of thumb, While having 2 campers on a 1024 parcel - One as customer support & the other as a Model - would more than likely be looked at as OK employment type camping, if you were to have say 5 Models - 1 customer support - and 10 dance pads on the same 1024 parcel it would more than likely be construed as a deliberate falsification of traffic attempt....... Your second approach would be to either remove your parcel completely from search or subdivide your land having a good chunk that would compensate any avatars just standing around a camping chair to insure none are counted in traffic. By not having the camp section in search, you are NOT gaming traffic)

Ok, so why have camping if I can't have the traffic from it? Good question - (As we all know in the marketing & advertising arena, there are literally thousands upon thousands of possibilities to get yourself seen & heard from. No matter what you do though, "WORD OF MOUTH" will "ALWAYS" be the most powerful marketing tool you'll ever have. Each of your campers, even though they don't count in traffic is a walking word of mouth advertisement for your products. Example::: lets say you sell outdoor Tiki furniture & they happen to adventuring around the grid. they over hear a guy talking about maybe buying some tiki chairs & a tiki bar, instantly they remember their favorite camp spot that happens to also sell GREAT tiki furniture & off the guy the landmark....)

How do I provide more incentive for a camper to "WANT" to tell others about my products & not just camping? Another good question - (My suggestion is to start % referral program for your campers, what i do is pay a 10% referral fee to anyone that a customer mentions referred them. I have a suggestion/referral box out that allows a customer to drop a notecard in it with the referrers name. The hover text of said box informs them what the box is for...... Another thing you can do is offer one higher paying camping system to the one with the most referrals for the week & have that system notecard driven to only allow the AV name you specify to cam p on it, just like an employment camper would be. Of course this is just one suggestion that seems to work great for me, I'm sure there are several other creative ideas you can come up with as well.)

What if i don't want to subdivide my land & remove it from search? - (Well then you can open up an "Employment" related position which would fit your businesses theme, needs, & be within the guidelines. Maybe a % commission salesman or a Customer Support technician. Maybe even someone that stands out front & waves at everyone while pointing to your Freebie cart. The options are endless really, you just have to be creative about & not go overboard with blatant gaming tactics.)

What's a blatant gaming tactic? - (The most blatant gaming tactic would be someone that puts out 10, 20, 30, or even 50 camping devices that seems to serve no other purpose than traffic. Seriously, I can't think of one logical reason to have 30 or 40 campers on a parcel listed in search other than to game traffic results - If it wasn't about traffic, than removing that section from search would not even be an issue.)

Any other tips you could offer? Sure - (Even though the blog & policy is still very unclear as to what amount of campers is gaming or what types of devices are allowed, you can at least apply this simple strategy to help insure that you are NOT abusing too many resources & that you are not a blatant traffic violator:::

1.) 512 = 1 camper | 1025 = 2 campers | 2048 = 3 campers | 4096 = 4 campers | Any number of campers over 4 on a land mass over 4096 meters, should consider removing a section of your parcel from search to be safe - "The Parcel sizes I mentioned are not a rule, its just a suggestive guideline" - Depending on how they are used it may still be a violation.

2.) Make sure that your devices are themed with your location, just slapping a few dance pads out in front of a furniture store don't constitute as themed. Maybe have one of your furniture pieces on sale converted to a camper so that it can be demoed to show potential buyers what it looks like in action. Or maybe even have a maintenance camper cleaning up the garbage in street out front. your options are endless as to the theme.

3.) The safest bet, no matter how many you have would be to subdivide the land & remove it from search all together. (This is what I did)

***Disclaimer:::: I do NOT work for linden labs Nor do I have any authority to set any types of rules & or guidelines. The above are just my suggestions & you agree to be fully liable for any and all you choose to use.***

I hope some of that helps a little..... Until LL releases a set guidelines chart one can only try their best to adhere to the policy & use camping in a legal manor.

I wish you & your businesses the best of success!

How about malls that have 'clubs’　full of 'clubgoers’　and a moneyball...
when i was new i would go to B*dg*rls and park my avatar on a danceball and then go and do something. They did have live DJ, but basically it was camping. and a good few of the dancers were other peoples bots.

we know it's not banned but it cannot be used to jack up traffic is all people are saying..there are threads here as well about it..
i am glad it's not banned myself because i know new people need to make money and it helps them some to start up especially if they are here alone..

but used to jack traffic..people used to come in this forum looking for places to camp because the bots had all the chairs..

i know now that i don't have to look all night on the search for a club i want to try out..the people i see there now are real..and i can get my search in a few tries rather than being tired by the time i find a place after looking for a few hours..
that's the difference between bots and camping to manipulate traffic and real traffic..

people that made camping chairs aren't the ones that abused them..it was their customers..

There's nothing wrong with promotions. But the people populating a mall, club, or event should actually be there...not zombies giving the place false stats.

As others have said nothing wrong with REAL traffic. That's the difference, Ciaran.

Kind of like if a RL store hired customers to stand around and pretend to be customers - as opposed to offering real customers some incentive to visit. The two things are totally different - one is pointless and fake, the other is good business sense.

I'm sure that Ciaran meant that the traffic numbers are never false, as he said, because the avatars are there on the parcels. I.e. the traffic actually exists. Camping and bots intentionally inflate it but the numbers are always true - not false.

true numbers can tell lies

The idea behind that statement is true, although I wouldn't use the word "abused". However, camping was invented for traffic purposes, or the equivalent at the time, and not for the purpose of being generous to people, so camping system creators are no different to parcel owners who use the systems.

camping has always been used to inflate numbers..
i was in one of the top clubs that sat on top of the pop list for 9 months because of camping chairs..
i remember that day we were at spot 3 without camping chairs and one of the owners wanted to get to number one because going from 7 spot to the 3rd spot in two days was not fast enough for them..so they brought in 60 chairs and poof..all that hard work down the drain..
we didn't even have to show up to work to get #1
sorry but it's fake numbers to me..we worked our butts off for over a month and really having a great time moving up then to have that happen right before we got there..
i have to disagree..
we had such a great plan to and soon as they went to the chairs they flushed everything and relied on the chairs..
when they finally took the chairs away is when they fell off the top spot..
it's traffic manipulation..your product is not drawing them there your tricks are..
we had something good and they chose the easy way..
thats the way i will always see it..
camping should be like it is now..to be helpful if you want to be helpful..not something that the people with the most money can put 60 chairs up to take out the ones with a good plan..
but thats just my opinion..that and 2 dollars might get you a cup of coffee hehehe

I didn't say that it isn't traffic manipulation, Ceka. I said that the avatars are on the parcel, so the traffic does exist and, therefore, the numbers aren't false.

There is nothing unclear about the blog. Intentionally inflating traffic by the use of camping, on a parcel that's set to show in search, is now a violation. It doesn't matter if it's only 1 camping device - it's still a violation.

in the sense of having it under different accounts to some that would be true..
but i always called them fake because my job after that was to generate traffic the right way with giving the customers what they wanted and club owners the type of traffic build they wanted that had longevity to it with a good customer base..
as far as the clubs were concerned they were labeled fake numbers..i guess it just depends on what your line of work is in sl that determines what fake is..

I agree that it's faked from the point of view that it isn't individual people at keyboards who are actually doing things, although individual people who are there doing things, just for the sake of increasing the traffic number, could still be considered as faked

I am sure that Ciaran simply meant that traffic numbers are never false, simply because they are only a count of avatar minutes, and the avatars were actually there.

i understand that..and really if i had to choose between bots or camping i would have to choose camping as the lessor of the two evils..it did help a lot of people and really we did get a lot of those campers that did become long time customers of the club..many even became long time employees..
so i guess some good did come from that..

but did it ever make me so mad that we were right there looking at #1 from #3 and poof..
that just made me sour for a long time ..but then again it made me want to show you can make a good club without them too..so again..
good can come from anything i guess ..

bleh it's 5am and i am rambling lol

It's pros and cons. Camping was definitely better from the point of view that you stated, but bots were better from the point of view of having a lot less impact on people (lag, and such), as long as they were placed well out of the way.

It's academic now, as they are both banned on parcels that are set to show in search. LL are doing precious little to enforce the ban, but at least there is a ban.

This is what I meant, the number (as far as I know) can't be faked. This is why I say traffic is the problem, not camping.

I'm really not a big fan of traffic, I'd prefer to have more options to sort my search. The fact is that parcels with 10 visitors can have higher traffic than parcels with 100 visitors and so on. I don't see how it's a useful measure in its present form, it's better than nothing and that's the only reason I don't want to see it go away but it's not that useful a statistic.

First of all, camping chairs weren't always there to inflate traffic. They were originally there as a means of gaming dwell, the now-really-really-old system where owners of popular venues could earn money just by having people around. And the result of that gaming was that dwell was abolished, which permanently changed the character of the grid.

Secondly, I'm sure that the original point of ordering search by traffic was to help find social experiences, because the Lindens know that without other people supporting you, 90% of SL is meaningless. Having people search for that and instead find people who are idle or purely in mechanized interaction breaks that model.

They'd be a lot better off fixing the group system and events if they want to improve social activity. Traffic will never be an indication of the number of people at a said location, they need to change the forumla for that.

i'm sorry i took what you said in the wrong direction..i understand what you mean now..traffic itself is not the best way to have companies noticed..i totally agree..
things look much clearer now after a good nights sleep lol