First come first assumed guilty? (Abuse Report)

According to the OP, the AR system can deliver results when it's used.
Two people AR'ed the OP, and the OP got suspended.
The perps probably have a well-polished routine for using the AR system

It seems to me that the two perps are gaming the system. They provoke a retaliation.
They are manipulating LL support staff to grief 'innocent' parties.
This is something that LL should be on the lookout for. It is a no-brainer that it must be happening, and that the practice will grow. It is something that should result in permanent banning.
Email addy, CC and 'possibly' IP should be included in that ban.


Moral:
If you MUST retaliate, be sure to submit a clear well-documented AR *first*.
If you MUST retaliate, be aware that you could get banned, even if you submit an AR.


That sucks bigtime, but that's the way it is.

Self defense is only allowed when there are no other options left. You had enough other options. You did go for a violent unneeded approach and so got banned.


Morwen.

Actually, that's completely true for any government and police-force.

They have the most people, the bigger/better weapons, and so they're in charge.

Violent unneeded approach by your views. Not everyone are the same or have the same moral views.

So why is such a big and diverse, even international game such as SL bound to a single perspective?

Such horrible centralization.

Government is charge because they have the biggest weapons? Where do you life? LOL

Morwen.

The only thing reflective about the OP's example...is how inadequate the Linden response to griefing has become. Since SL has grown so tremendously over the past year, LL's service to its customers has dwindled away...unless, of course, you happen to be one of those tier-heavy "concierge"-level customers (and the nouveau riche sound of THAT just makes me want to GAG...).

I'm just not the kind of person who finds it easy to "turn the other cheek"...after I've been hit...especially if I've been hit over and over and over again. It's demeaning and infuriating, and to lack the ability to defend oneself in such situations is simply ridiculous.

Funny. In matter as these it is sudden an international game.... but when it comes down to we are suddenly hold to US laws.... Very funny indeed.

Morwen.

Right ... so if residents can orbit them before they return with another alt, that would accomplish more?

I fully support your right of self defense, in the real world. A man's home is his castle and he should never be forced to retreat from it. BUT you are not in the real world, you are in Linden's world. Here their rules apply and one of their rules is no weapon use in a "safe" area. You broke that rule and you were punished. Suck it up, quit whining, and be a man about it.

Yup. if they didn't, someone would over-throw them, and they won't have anything to control the people with.

And don't tell me that's not true, because that'd be plain ignorant and wishful dreaming.

The power of self-governance is in the hands of the landowners.

They can eject/ban griefers as well as "deputise" others with making the land part of a group and giving those people the abilities to do so.

I run security for several private sims as well as several buisnesses. Does that mean I "go in blazing" whenever there is a problem? Not likely.

A quiet eject/ban works far better. Less fuss overall. And yes, they can come back and that's when the land options get set to No Build, No Scripts for a time and the ban list on the security system grows.

Then I file ARs. And trust me they work. How do I know? Because repeat griefers get perm-banned. Their names are removed form the system completely and you can't even search for them after that, or even add them to a ban list as the name isn't in the database anymore.

Doing things by the rules takes longer. Criminals break the rules because they are lazy and want thigns the "easy way". You can follow the ToS/CS and still provide the policing you are craving. It just takes more thought than most griefers care to put into it. By not thinking, people sink to the griefer's level and wind up breaking the rules themselves and getting just punishment.

Where ever the OP was, calling for the landowner, land manager, or a Linden is the recourse. It is up to the landowner to supply the "police force". Though I will admit that LL could supply law a bit better in Linden owned lands.

~Jessy

Why not, it worked for them... lessoned learnt.

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the whole world would soon be blind and toothless." - Mahatma Ghandi

That's why "self defense in SL" is prohibited, because it doesn't end. I do admire your steadfast defense of a wholly misguided morality, though.

The system is what it is. Work within it, try to get it changed.

By chance, and without looking on the other side of the penny.

Shoot first and ask questions later, what a disgusting system.

How much time do we really want Linden Lab to devote to investigating abuse reports? LL is grossly understaffed and not really equipped to handle the massive number of abuse reports it currently receives. I would much prefer they invest in engineering and development, rather than policing the grid. In fact, I long for the day when they no longer accept abuse reports, when they no longer kick or ban people - but instead have given all residents, including but not limited to land and estate owners, the tools we need to protect ourselves and handle griefers.

LOL.... Yes, at every border around the world armies are just waiting to charge into other countries and taking over power. Maybe is some parts this may be a little true... but for the most of the world it is not...

Or do you think Russia wants to conquer the US? Those bad bad communists...
Or maybe The Netherlands want to take over Belgium... and then France... UK and then rest of the world...

Morwen.

This is a common argument brought out when "griefing back" is discussed. There is a fallacy in it though: you weren't hit, your avatar was.

SL is a game; having a griefer "hit" you harms you in no manner at all. If you allow yourself to feel demeaned and infuriated, that is your choice, but I would argue that you are bringing real sentiments into a simulation where they have no meaning.

Worse still, griefers grief because the reaction pleases them; the greater your retaliation the greater their satisfaction. Do you really want to give the griefer exactly what they are looking for? If so, they win. The choice is yours.

Again, since you seem to not want to listen to it, you have no idea if the other side was banned as well.

More than likely, LL suspended BOTH sides.

Why? Duh! You BOTH broke the rules.

~Jessy

Kill the criminal without justice spoken..... just as disgusting.

Morwen.

Living/growing up in the U.S., most of us see that our own government clearly wants to rule the world, and then assume every other country must be the same. We're pretty much taught that in school- i.e. "We need the biggest weapons because everybody else wants to nuke us and take what we have!" Maybe half the world hates the U.S. because, ohhh I dunno.... our government is full of assholes??


Anyhow, generally: I still wonder...

What's so hard about TP'ing away from griefers? There is no need for "self defense" in SL because there's no way to permanently die in SL. Even if you're not in a safezone, all that happens when you "die" is you get TP'ed home. Big deal.

No need to repeat yourself over and over, I heard you the first time, but that wasn't the point of this argument so I ignored it.

I don't want to listen to a view which punishes the victim either.

Ah, so you want the rules only to apply to people other than yourself. Got it.

*hands out cheese and pie*
~Jessy

Did this happen on your land?

On the moment you acted (unneeded) in the same way back to them, you were just as guilty.

Morwen.