who's really in it just for the money?

Well, my threshold for "success" isn't making an RL livelihood of SL, so that's a bit excessive. And it isn't just the case of "people try and then feel negative about it". Statements like "anyone with a decent brain ought to be able to make money in an SL business" actually put _everyone_ off being a consumer, because it tells them that the only reason they'd buy in with real money is that they don't have a decent brain.



Keeping people in SL to become consumers is my overall point - people feeling bad is related to it because people won't stay in a virtual world that makes them feel bad.

I honestly don't think that people would leave because of the reason you said, Yumi, and if an odd one or two do, then think of the other side. If people read the statement that "anyone with a decent brain ought to be able to make money in an SL business" and they start businesses because of it, and a few are successful, that far outweighs the possibility of one or two people leaving because they have a bad feeling about the place. And I still don't accept that anyone would leave for that reason.

Bear in mind that it isn't just those people who completely leave.. it's also the people who become "economically inactive" - ie, don't ever buy US$, but live off freebies and camping. Any idea that a person who doesn't make money must be somehow inferior will encourage this, too.

That was an excellent clarification, Thank you

And to be honest, I did get it at first, was just tryin to get it spelled out for anyone who saw that statement without goin through the whole thread and gaining the context first.
Kinda could of been takin either way, and I wouldn`t want someone taking it the wrong way.


Hopefully I didn`t offend anyone, if I did I apoligize

The "economy" here is not just about cash changing hands. Spending drives people to create and innovate and develop the whole SL experience for everyone.

I'm sorry, Yumi, but I just don't agree with the reasoning. I earn my livelihood from SL, and I've no desire to do things that will encourage people to put money into SL, or prevent them from not putting money in. There are plenty of people putting money in, and the population is growing, in spite the vast numbers who leave. I think it is good to encourage people who are inclined to start a business, by saying that they can succeed if they have the will to succeed.

Of course every US dollar that someone takes out of SL is a US dollar that someone else put in. Not to mention those that go to Linden Labs.

You can blame it on your hangover

There's no problem with encouraging the people who are inclined to start a business, the problem is with discouraging the ones who aren't, by telling them that they don't have enough will. And besides, the amount of will they have is probably something that you could change, too!

You lost me there. I don't understand what you are saying, I'm afraid.

Again, I think you are not giving the majority of users enough credit in the brains department. I don't run a business, have absolutely no desire to, wouldn't take one if you gave me one of the biggies wrapped up in a box. It's not from a lack of will, or any discouragement, it's because it doesn't interest me. I think the majority of people decide whether or not to run a business do so on this criteria. A lot of people who never had any RL business experience probably start one here for the best reason. It looks like it might be fun. Some will fail, some will tread water, some will turn a profit. But I don't think most who chose not to are lazy, stupid, lacking of will, etc.People will join and leave Sl for many reasons, even some with successful businesses have left due to a variety of issues. I don't think that will change much in the long run. The bubble has burst for now, as all do.

I had to read it a few times, but I think I finally understand what you are saying, Yumi.

It takes a giant leap of imagination to think that a statement like, "anyone with a decent brain ought to be able to make money in an SL business" means that anyone who doesn't want to start a business is inferior in the brain department, or that "anyone can succeed if they have the will to succeed [in an SL business]" means that those who don't have the will/inclination to create a successful business are in any way inferior in the will department. That's one hell of a leap of imagination, Yumi. It actually sounds like clutching at straws.

Sure, and neither do I. But some of the statements given to encourage people to start businesses, have the effect of making it seem that way!

WOW! Maybe I'm dense after all, because I've never heard anything remotely like that. Perhaps some will make that perception, probably a scant few, but that can't be avoided. no two people will see any staement exactly the same, as is proven every day in these forums.

Like Brenda, I haven't seen anything remotely like that either. It would take a giant leap of imagination to arrive at those conclusions. On the other hand, there are plenty of posts in this thread that are discouraging to anyone who has an inclination to give it a go, and my contradictory statements were from the perspective of the experience of having done it successfully - twice. I wonder how many of those who were discouraging have had any real experience of it. One or two people suggested that I was lucky, but that wasn't the case. I was successful because I did what was needed to be successful - the will. If I'd discovered that it wouldn't work, it would have been a sort of success because I'd have learned some ins and outs, in case I wanted to have another go in the future.

I see no reason in the world to discourage anyone who is inclined to have a go, and I see every reason to be encouraging, together with some sound advice, which has been provided in this thread. Certainly, the idea that people could end up with such negative feelings that they leave SL feeling bad about themselves is a non-starter in my book. Then that was changed to the idea that the ecouragement could cause them to stop putting money into SL's economy if the businesses failed, which is also a non-starter in my book.

Well, they may have experience of failure. I've had several failed attempts, aside from my main business, which is doing moderately well - but for that, I had to adapt a great deal. And a good part of that was letting go of the idea that I could make things I wanted to make, and instead would have to make things that I was good at making and that the economy wanted; a further part was accepting that that would be constantly changing (the market for gadgets is rather harsh that way, as you're selling functionality rather than art, which means you have far less IP protection - although there are good reasons for that)



That may be your opinion, but it is still reality that many newcomers to SL arrive with unrealistic expectations. Naturally everybody is keen not to discourage them, but the problem is that means they keep their unrealistic expectations and then when they encounter the reality of how SL works they feel cheated and quit, or at least have more trouble recovering that they otherwise would have done; while, if they'd had a more realistic idea going from the beginning, that might have been avoided. It isn't always about running a business - one person I spoke to at NCI said that what they wanted to be most in SL was a "rock star", but they had no interest in performing live music.

May I ask what makes you think that?

I won't reply to the rest, because I don't think we're ever going to agree

I own an rl business and no way would I want an sl one. I have seen too many people open the same type of business they have in rl. They burn out fast because they don't make any money and spend a lot of hours doing it.

If I was to open an sl business it would be for fun and not with the idea that I would make any real money by doing it. If someone was to ask me if they should. I would say go for it. But look at it as putting your money in a slot machine, you may hit the big one but then again you may lose all you have. Exactly the same in real life.

If you approach it with the mindset that you are doing this for a good time and just happen to hit it big that is wonderful for you. I wish the best to anyone that wants to give it a try...

Oh darn, you mean you're not going to prove me wrong that I can't make things I want to make? But I was looking forward to that!

What makes me think that (that newbies often arrive with unrealistic expectations), though, is that I've spoken to a lot of them. The "rock star" one above is a good example - ok, they can make an avatar that looks like a musician, but unless they actually play live music, they won't be able to distinguish themselves to earn "star" status. Of course the most common unrealistic expectation is that they'll eventually have unlimited L$, or will be able to earn them without doing any work!

Two things will forever keep SL from being a money-making enterprise for me:

1) Tier fees.

2) Time-consumption.

When I factored in how much time I spent working on my sim, I realized I was making less per hour than the "You want fries with that?" guy. So I must be doing it because it's fun.

lol. I don't know what the ventures were, so tell us, and let's see if we can discover why they didn't work

I wouldn't have said that the rock star is an example of it at all - not from what you posted anyway. Wasn't the idea of being a rock star in SL simply an answer to what he would like to be, and not the reason why he actually came into SL in the first place? I have to say that I don't think you have sufficient evidence to state that "many newcomers to SL arrive with unrealistic expectations".

The people that come here strictly for the money, but with no corresponding skill, are those with unrealistic expectations. Sure, they can learn. But it takes time and money to get established to the point where you can earn a rl living in here. You already admitted that you had the time - people with rl jobs that do not permit them to be in SL do not have that luxury. It is unrealistic to come in here thinking you're going to make money hand over fist unless you have a lot of money to put in here and a lot of time, especially since these markets are so competitive as is.

I agree, but I haven't seen any evidence that "many newcomers to SL arrive with unrealistic expectations". If someone had said that they stood at the landing spot for new arrivals for a few days, and asked each one why they signed up, and that many of them had signed up with unrealistic expectations, I would accept it, but there is nothing yet to suggest that many people do join with unrealistic expactations.

[added]
And even if many do that, it's still no reason to discourage them - but we've been through that before.