who's really in it just for the money?

The timing hasn't been right since the first landbot appeared and LL dumped 500 new sims on us.

I'm just here for the surrealism.

/me flaps his flippers and lets out a whining "uink" sound.

I totally agree. To have success in business, in rl and sl, you need to have talent/aptitude, motivation/drive, and luck. Without the other two, all the luck in the world will get you no where, but I still believe it is the biggest contributor to success.

Business permanancy in SL would be dependent on the level of security of SL. Without security how can it be taken seriously? Some people have capitalized on SL for quick bucks and some creative people have done well with great creations, but how permenent can it be, when it is still so unreliable and insecure?

Just like the internet, Quick Buck Scammers will outnumber real businesses. Radical changes in security and stability will have to happen if it is to be taken seriously by real business.

It's the ethics that is missing in so many desperate or greedy RL people, spilling into SL.

Wait till there are worldwide Infocommercials from people selling Get Rich Quick Kits for Second Life.

Very well summarized. And honestly, I don't think anyone really knows what skills they possess in SL until they begin playing. Nor should people be discouraged from trying to sell their creations. Yes, there's the potential disappointment that no one is interested in one's creation, but there's also the possibility that people will love it.

Having fun first and foremost should be the most important aspect. See where your passion and talents reside, and then give it a shot. I think some of the most successful business people in SL stumbled on their new "career".

I've been making Japanese furniture this week, just for fun, trying to learn some basic building and I don't think it's too bad actually. Sure, there's tonnes of people creating Japanese furniture, but am I discouraged? No, I just want to play. And yes, I'll eventually try selling it when they're finished but I won't have any expectations. What I do know is I'm enjoying myself.

That's a great attitude to have, although not having any great expectations could be modified a bit if you actually want it to succeed. Look at it this way. You said that there are loads of places selling japanese furniture. Are some of them successful? If some are successful, there is no reaon why yours can't be just as successful - assuming that your furniture matches them for quality. You can compete in the Classifieds search results in an instant, and there is enough information in this forum to compete successfully in the new All search, and in the Places search.

If your furniture is good, there is only one reason why you won't have a successful business - the lack of being bold about making it a good business. There are many reason for not being bold, such as choosing not to invest some money, but if you want it to succeed, you can make it succeed. I genuinely believe that.

Phil, you sound like one of those rare people with a natural aptitude for business. As someone with no aptitude, I read your posts with interest. I don't get the sense that you came to SL to make money so much as you have a natural instinct for what is needed and a willingness to be bold in providing it.

I love SL for all I learn here and what business is all about is one of the new things I'm learning. So far I have learned that I have no business sense whatsoever but I really like hanging out with creative people! Not much different than RL as it turns out.

Thanks much. Honestly, I'm really boggled by the new search and I've tried to follow the threads in the forums, but I can't see a conclusion. I've no idea what works. What I do know is that our land rentals haven't received the attention they once did and we have 1.3 sims of absolutely beautiful environments. We have lots of benefits for renters (places to build and play, guest ships to fly etc.) But we're not "full up" as we were before and I don't know if that's the holidays or the new search or if maybe we don't have anything of interest to renters any more. I'm afraid to ask for help in the forums because I don't want to seem whiney -- yet, here I am, sort of asking for help. ha ha. Being bold!

This brings up a *very* key point about permanency.

Average job lifespan in the United States, for instance, is a mere 3.6 years.

reference: http://www.uwmc.uwc.edu/psychology/career_seminar1.htm

And that's optimistic - I know for engineering professionals in the 1990's, a boom time, it was closer to 2.2 years.

Management was slightly better, but not much. And if your industry craters, well, expect a pink slip.

Sure, if you are the fast food parking lot sweeper, you've probably got a long career ahead of you. But that security costs more than it is worth.

* * * * *

The one difference might be entrepreneurship.

I've done okay here, but then I've already been part of successful tech startups in the '90's; plus I've got my own business in RL.

But if your life experience has to do with raising chinchillas, you've probably got a steeper learning curve ahead of you here than I did.

Likewise, the chinchillas would probably give me a hard time, too. But that's why I'm here, and not on a Peruvian chinchilla farm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinchilla

Quality never has and never will be a barrier for success. This is why inferior products galore have over the years seen off superior rivals. Capitalism doesn't work this way, products live and die by sales, it's the same in SL as it is in RL.

There's a lot of truth in that about RL success (the VHS system is an example of the worst quality being the one that succeeded), but I don't see it the same way in SL. As yet, there is very little branding in SL. Here, people just need to do a search and TP to a likely looking place. If they don't like what's in the place, they open the search window and TP to the next one. Here, people just buy what they see and like, rather than being influenced by brands.

There is only one conclusion, Lucrezia. Page Title (land name) and ever increasing IBLs, both with the main searchterms in them.

You are right about all that. I didn't come into SL with any idea of starting a business- I'd no idea that such things were even possible here - but I tend to do things like that because I enjoy doing it. I go through phases. I used to go out a lot, have 'relationships' a lot, etc., and the business was a sideline hobby, but it was a real hobby so it had to succeed. More recently, I prefer not to go out at all, or have relationships, and I'm also moving towards spending less time in SL. But they are phases. The most important thing for me is doing what I enjoy, at the time I enjoy them.

*tentatively raises hand to ask a silly question*

What does IBL stand for? Boy do I feel retarded this morning.

Thanks for the tip on the Page Title. I'll flesh those out later. Thank you.

Inbound Links.

Unfortuantely, apart from Classifieds, we don't have any figures about which search people come from, but from the short time that we've had the new All search, I am convinced that it's being used a lot. So, imo, you do need to do things to get your rentals up those rankings for various searchterms.

I'll assume that you use an auto system like Hippo, so you don't need to be there to rent places to people, but you could try being there as well. I never used an auto system - people needed to IM me if they wanted to rent. Then after a while, I put a script into my showboxes that IMed me when someone arrived in them. I immediately went over to answer any questions that they may have, and I rented a lot more places out because of doing that. With 1.5 sims, the business must be serious for you, so you might consider doing something like that.

Thanks for the input. And yes, we use Hippo. We even had someone rent one of our cabins before it was even ready -- LOL... we were just setting up the rental box (long story why we do that before the place is completely ready) and tossed in an approximate rental amount (we weren't certain what to charge at that point, again, long story). Any way... I think once people see the region they do like it. But it's getting people to our community that we're uncertain how to do.

It's not a big business for us. In fact, we simply wish to cover tier costs so we don't have a lot of rentals. About half the sim or more is dedicated to scenery and open areas. I'll play around with the keywords and title, as you suggest, and see if I can hang out more. ha ha. Thanks!

I don't know if you advertise in Classifieds, but if you do, you need to incorporate your important search terms into its text - exactly. Before that, you need to decide what your important searchterms are, and that takes a bit of thinking about. Try to put yourself into a potential tenant's head. What phrases would you search on?

When you have a number of important searchterms, include them in the land's description as well, so that it will come up in the Places results. They are used a lot too - dunno if they are used a lot for accommodations tho, but it doesn't hurt to cover it. The land's description is used as the Description in the land's HTML page - the page that's listed in the All search - so including the searchterms in it will help the All search as well.

Have a look at how much people are paying for Classifieds for your most important searchterm, and maybe give it a try for a week.

Research on RL engines has shown that the top few rankings get the lion's share of the traffic, so do things to move up. If the product is good, and if people come, they will buy.

Phil - you have given some damn good advise, and very openly, and am very thankful for that! I think I am going to wait until the new search is fully deployed before I start a business, and make some more stuff in the meantime.

Thank you, Phil! That's a great summary description of how it works. I've read every thread I could find and only ended up confused. But then it's not too hard with my fuzzy head. ha ha. Thank you!

And I just rented one of our space station suites a half hour ago... by being there when someone was looking at the place. ha ha. So it does work... being there.

*blows you a kitty kiss*

I understand that what you're saying has the appeal of sounding motivational, but it doesn't make any sense, economically. Economics has been called "the dismal science" but unfortunately it is a reality.

If what you are saying was true.. then if everyone on SL was to spend "enough time", they could all succeed in business. But that is impossible, because if no money is coming in, none can go out. The other problem with the time argument is, how much time is enough?



So do you believe that everyone could paint as well as Van Gogh if they put in enough time?



And as I've said.. the time argument is incorrect, unfortunately. It is a useful point to make to motivate people. But - as has been mentioned earlier on this thread - it's now becoming problematic in SL because people are spending time trying to succeed, not succeeding, becoming frustrated and upset with themselves and then quitting SL because it has become tied to those negative emotions. The reality is that a person's success at what they want to do, cannot be purely in their own hands, because otherwise the economy would have no balancing mechanism and we would have the possibility of an entire generation of nothing but ballerinas and astronauts.

Of course that's right, but the vast majority of people simply aren't going to put the time in to try and create a business, which leaves plenty of scope for those who do.

That's not a good parallel. We are not talking about supreme talent here in SL; we are talking about making things that people will like enough to buy. How many RL pictures are sold in a period of time? That incudes originals, limited edition prints, printed copies of painting, etc. etc. etc. The answer is a vast number. That's a much better parallel for the products in SL that people like and buy. Everyone likes to have pictures on the walls in their RL homes, but how many people buy Van Goghs

But if you are talking about making things like dresses as good as the people who already make them in SL, then yes - all it takes is time, and the real desire to do it, plus a reasonably good brain, which most people have.

I don't see that happening in SL at all. All I see is most people simply enjoying themselves.

That's true, but SL is a young world and, at this time, there is plenty of scope for people to create a successful business in it if they really want to. Xcite would be difficult to make inroads into, because it's so well entrenched, but I don't know of anything else like that.

And in reality, the number of content creators the SL economy needs is much less than "the vast majority", or even 49%. Probably, someone who's more expert than me could calculate it, given the trends in SL's economic statistics. But even if there _is_ room left, it would still not be true that an individual's time was the only factor in their success, becuase that economic stop-valve would still _be_ there, it just wouldn't be closed yet.



No, I'm sorry, but that isn't true. I mean.. a great example I've heard of the problem with this: let's try turning that point around. What you're saying is that no matter how much talent and inborn ability an established creator has, and no matter how much time they've put in in the past, they can never do anything better than any average person could do given enough time. Does that sound reasonable?



Well, naturally you don't see it happening in SL - the people have left.



An awful lot of scripted objects are that way now, because they have many more limits than artistic objects like clothing (and the harsh environment created by "multitools".

Frankly, I don't give a damn about SL's economy needs. I'm talking about the individual, and the potential to create a successful business in SL. If everybody took what you wrote seriously, then nobody would start up in business, either in SL or in RL, because there isn't any room left for any more - and I don't need to write what I think of that idea.

Also, I didn't say that time is the only factor. I stated a number of things as well as time.

Yes it does. Let me make something very clear. There is no great creating talent in SL, because the system doesn't allow it technically. This isn't RL, where talented work is better than average work. This is SL and there are limitations as to what you can actually do. All the good stuff is much of a muchness. Yes, people do make crap stuff, and try to sell it, but that's because they are either lazy, or they haven't yet progressed beyond the basics of making things - time again

They've all gone? That doesn't sound quite right to me. If your theory is correct, I would expect to see a constant flow of people coming into SL, getting disillusioned because they couldn't make it in business, and leaving. I.e. according to your theory, a great many such people are still in SL, in the process of starting businesses and becoming disillusioned to the extent of leaving - but I don't see it happening.

Name some please. Apart from Xcite, I know of no scripted object that is such a big brand, or that is so well entrenched, that it can't be competed with successfully.

I agree with everything Phil just wrote and add that I think even Xcite can be taken down by a imaginative competitor. There's always a better mousetrap. If there wasn't we'd all be still watching TV in black and white and listening to 8 track tapes.

Well the content creators must be doing ok, because it's them that are paying the malls to support all the Leeching Traffic & Camping bots

I didn't mean to say that there wasn't enough room, right now, for any new businesses - I'm sorry if it came out that way. On the other hand, you _did_ state this:



Ie, that the only factor involved in success was the person's "interest". And that isn't true. There is no way to separate "what SL's economy needs" from the ability to create a successful business. The wider economy is always a factor in the success of your business. So if somebody's business fails, it isn't necessarily because they "lacked interest" (or because they "didn't work hard enough", which is the other standard insult).



There is talent in all things. SL has limited tools, but there is a lot of talent in doing impressive things with them. Have you seen DanCoyote Antonelli's artworks? Or as a non-SL example, there's a charming game called Knytt Stories, which uses only boxes and lines for art - but the author is a talented graphic designer and it still shows through. And there's still the case where the talent is part of the creative process - a lack of talent doesn't produce a bad product, it just leaves someone unable to complete to create anything, because they cannot think of the details of what they're going to create.



There are many stores in rental malls that turn over relatively quickly - often the time period is several months, so it isn't immediately visible. Plus, of course, "businesses in a box" probably create that experience (yes, yes, I know they aren't a real attempt at starting a business - but the person who buys them _believes_ they are, and the resulting emotions are the same)



Force Prophecies; Mystitool; The Amethyst Collar; Prim Docker; TextureAlign.