Could the Lindens block SL from stabilising as a goldrush economy?

Right. So, let's stop saying "your world your imagination" and "live your dreams in SL", because your dream might be, to be a rock star..



Except that most of them have been barraged with false claims about SL, even by in-world education. As I posted above, no mentor ever wants a newbie to quit in front of them, even if that newbie was someone who would never have enjoyed SL - the real SL - and thus them moving on was actually the best idea. But it's all retention, retention, retention - no allowance for "best fit".

And as other people have observed about me, being negative doesn't make you popular - but sometimes you have to be, because the negative statement is the truth. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of really fantastic things about SL, but pretending that it can be all things to all people ultimately doesn't do anyone any good. And far too much, the world - and especially the newbie experience - tries to give that impression; and content creators ride it along. Probably not intentionally and almost certainly without malice, but just as a sort of social pressure thing. Nobody wants to be negative to a newbie, and that's understandable. Nobody wants to say "you can't do X on SL" to somebody who might be the one person who creates a way to, after all. But likewise in such an environment, you can hardly blame people for "not understanding their market" when all the resources they'll go to in order to learn about it, give an impression that's false for probably 90% of people.



You need to back it up more than that, Chris. If the people who spend the money aren't churning, why do the amounts spent and number of customers tend to stay the same even as SL grows? And given that most people here, even the people who really enjoy SL, report that "after some time you just don't need to buy content anymore", it's unlikely that that customer count is made up of the same people month after month.

Again, caveat emptor. Do you give people money just because they make handwaving claims? Adults need to make informed decisions. That means vetting what you're told by the people that run the place, because they are far from objective. And mentors, while not part of the establishment, are just people with opinions of their own. Again, verify it! It's common sense.

A fool and their money are soon parted.

And I would not ever say that they should not be allowed to make that guitar. I would say that they need to include a note on the vendor saying that it is only an art object, and that not only does it not play music and not have animation, but that you can't be a virtual rock star in SL even if it did.



This isn't to do with the quality of the individual product, though, it's to do with the individual product's integration with the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if the prim guitar turns out to be low quality, that can fit into "caveat emptor". What _does_ matter is if the buyer doesn't realise that they can't be a virtual rock star even with the best prim guitar on the grid.

Not a fool, Love. The overselling is so rampant in SL that a newbie who tries to avoid it has no choice but not to trust _anything_. You can't trust profiles, you can't trust event claims, you can't trust advertisements, and according to you you can't even trust mentors, so what - as a newbie - can you trust, and what can you possibly verify against?

Your own eyes. Starting a club is a great example of where common sense and a night of investigation leads one to the inevitable conclusion: it's rare for a club to make money, and their staying power is limited. Hey, just like RL.

If you are talking about creators who purposely lie about what they are selling (like someone selling a prim guitar claiming that there's animations and music built in when there isn't), I haven't run into it myself, but I expect it does happen on occasion. If there isn't a BBB type of arrangement in SL, I agree that there could be a place for one. But if you buy a guitar based on a vendor box which doesn't make those claims, and then find out they're not there, you only have yourself to blame if you end up disappointed.

Sure, but what about being a virtual rock star? There aren't many failed rock stars in SL around to warn you. And having the attitude "no one else has done it yet, therefore, it must be impossible" is something that others in SL will _quite correctly_ tell you is not generally useful... unfortunately in this specific case, it gives the correct result. And worse yet, there _are_ people who claim to be a rock star in their profiles when they're not.



And again, I'm not talking about whether the guitar contains music and animations or not. I'm talking about whether the person buys that guitar _knowing_ that they can't be a virtual rock star, no matter whether the guitar contains fancy scripting or not.

Who are YOU to say they can't, Yumi? If Basement Reggie can successfully project a rock star image in SL to their friends and acquaintances, and those avatars react as if Basement Reggie is a rock star, doesn't that make him a virtual rock star?

Perhaps, once Reggie realizes that no object can make him a rock star, his prim guitar investment will act as inspiration to himself to become the most magnetic DJ/performer in SL. Perhaps that guitar will become a rabbit's foot to be carried while he learns to perform.

The lesson "no object can make you a rock star" is actually more important to learn in RL than in SL. Why should SL protect people from their fantasies more than RL does? And, if Basement Reggie discovers in SL that he has a rock star within, I think that is more likely to help him than hurt him.
.

I'm at a loss. When has LL promised you can be a rock star in SL? That, IMHO, is more what Rock Band and Guitar Hero are all about. I mean, it's common sense! Buy a virtual guitar and be a rock star automatically? Who thinks that??

LL has promised "your world, your imagination". Many others promise you can live your dreams in SL.



I'm referring to the above thread I had with Chris Norse, though. Ultimately, even if you can sit on a prim poseball and play loops while other people pretend to applaud, it's a fairly empty experience, and is unlikely to satisfy anyone's fantasies.

And if it inspires them, that's great. Perhaps the person who buys a fake USB memory stick from a street corner electronics vendor is inspired to create the next generation of portable storage systems, too. That doesn't make it OK for him to have been sold the fake stick.



Perhaps. Perhaps not. Realistically the kind of person who becomes "the most magnetic DJ/performer in SL" is not likely to be starting by looking for a prim guitar to become a rock star with anyway. But even ignoring that, it still doesn't change the fact that this will maybe apply to 1 out of the hundreds of people who bought that guitar; and if that one person had known, in advance, that he couldn't be a rock star in SL just by buying a guitar, then he could have still gone ahead and learned to perform anyway; meanwhile the 999 others saved their money, and the perverse incentive to advertise the guitar as more than it actually is was removed.



Because RL doesn't advertise itself as an entertainment product that lets people live out their fantasies. SL does.

Your reasoning seems to be based on the assumption that people playing SL are five year olds with over-permissive parents. I can not picture the potential player who would believe that "your world, your imagination" means "you can jack in to Second Life and have realistic sex with groupies of the gender of your choice".

And sometimes the negative statement is displacement behavior that helps someone avoid confronting the reasons for their own failure.
On the one hand... you don't need to buy content at *all* in SL. Just to test this, one of my alts I've spent exactly L$0 on, even including textures, and he looks great! So it's not a matter of *need* at all.

Want? Well, I no longer spend US$20+ a month on new avatars, but... let's see... I see expenditures of L$3500 on avatars over the last 30 days in my transaction history. I don't *need* a 20+ meter long dragon avatar, but it was cool, so I sprung for it.

Again, this is about common sense, taking responsibilities for your own actions, and learning before you spend. I mean, if you feel you have to. Many don't, since it's entertainment money well spent.

So you're taking issue with broad promises made by LL which really can't be realized? I can imagine a lot of things which SL can't possibly deliver. Like 100% tactile immersion. Or the best pizza ever. Should there be huge warnings all over the website warning me that I won't get 100% tactile pizza eating experiences?

What you are talking about is changing policies which everyone has to adhere to, to protect people who really have no business being allowed to spend money in the first place.

No thanks.

Ironically, having sex with groupies is probably the one part of the rock star experience that SL _could_ simulate



Are you denying that a person wishing to be a virtual rock star must choose between a) playing their own music and thus not being virtual, or b) sitting on a poseball playing loops before a fake audience, and thus having an empty experience? If you think this is incorrect, by all means say so. If it is a fact, then it is a fact no matter why I'm saying it.



Sure. There _are_ people around who keep paying for content over time, and those are the people who the world should be trying to retain, and who we should be encouraging. But their numbers don't seem to be increasing, at least not very quickly.

A little bloody consistency would be nice. That's EXACTLY the experience you claimed would solve the "you can't have a successful club" problem in another thread... creating a virtual environment where it "looks like" your club is full of people even if none of the people you see know your club's there.

The hell it doesn't. "Anyone can be President!" "If you work hard enough, you'll succeed!" etc etc etc...

The lack of tactile stimulation is immediately obvious given SL's interface. The social issues which obstruct "your world, your imagination" are not. And it happens that I've actually _seen_ a newbie helper telling a newbie to buy a prim guitar in order to be a rock star. I wanted to run over and tell him he was being misled, but, well, you don't do that in a help area.

And of course, all advertising is the truth. It never lies. SL is breaking new ground with false promises. Gimme a break.

If you accept "sitting on a poseball playing loops" simulates sex, then how does "sitting on a poseball playing loops" not simulate being a rock star?

And you pointed out that that would be awful, and I thought you made a fair point, and so my opinion changed? I mean, consistency yes, but don't complain when your arguments work!

But it's my imagination! Are you saying that common sense has some part of this??



Was the person ultimately disappointed? Will the next person be?

Because usually, with cybersex, the other person is there honestly and wants to play out sex with you because they will enjoy it too. It's integrated, it's coherent. That's why sex is so popular on SL and on talkers.

With the simulated rock star, on the other hand, none of your audience are applauding honestly.

Well well well, and I wouldn't have known if I hadn't asked.

But you could RP the thing if you really wanted. "OK, I'm playing my guitar at you, and you're getting so hot! Oh damn, a string just broke, and I have a floating bridge. I'm out of tune now. Quick, someone get me a new guitar!"

Even if they're having simulated sex with you at the time?

You're posting that as a joke, so you already know that it doesn't work.

Well, hopefully their clapping hands are otherwise occupied.

No, that really happens!