Cut That Barbedy-Wire!

The mere fact that they are paying for the land and don't want you on it, is need enough. If you don't like it, pay some of their tier for them.

Now that's going way too far.

Yes, yes, yes, everyone knows if you pay for the land you can put up banlines. Doesn't make it right to do so. Doesn't make it any less silly to do so. Doesn't make them more effective. Doesn't make it less rude.
They should make them visible from the inside... and the owner of the parcel should have to bump into them when he tries to walk off his parcel. What's fair is fair.

I leave my property open for all to visit, I have met some interesting characters as a result.

Besides that, I have my property set to damage enabled, If by chance someone is trying to grief....guess what happens............hee-hee-hee (evil chuckle)

What should be done is:

Parcel access settings should reset to a default to allow public access, and clear both access lists when land is transferred. There should also be an option for a resident to export/import these lists in the event they're transferring to a group or for some reason where the new owner wants to keep those lists intact. This would take care of a huge amount of the problem by eliminating unintentional banlines. Those who actually need banlines, or just want them because they can have them still can.

Banlines should be prohibited on any parcel that overlaps a Linden road or waterway. At the very least, they should not extend into the road or waterway.

Banlines should be visible to the owner from outside their property.

This I agree with completely.

how is that fair? Punishing people on their own land because you don't like something?
That's not even remotely fair.

And... just because you don't like them doesn't make it WRONG to do so.

Canadians are soooooo reasonable, aren't they . . . ?

What probably needs to be done is more public lanes be added.

One thing I do not understand is people claiming 'need for access' in a virtual world. Sort of asked this in another thread, but where do people 'need' to fly to?

You are only saying that cause I am agreeing with you.... wait til the next thread where people think I am going way too far out on a limb and we'll see if your opinion of us holds

Safe bet their will be one....

Life's not fair!

Pep (Why should *Second* Life be fair? )

Ok. I accept that.
They should only cut people's hands off - or a few fingers anyway.



But seriously Shirley...

Most of the ban line use that I have seen has been an inappropriate use of facilities.
There was no real need for them.

Slapping up ban lines on a parcel devoid of avatars, particularly one beside a Linden road or waterway is as inappropriate a use of facilites/features as was cutting microparcels for price gouging or running traffic bots.
I don't have an issue with people not wanting to be bothered by unexpected visitors - even if the visitors are non-abusive. It's the extreme outcomes of the particular method used that I object to.


Will we ever see LL move on this issue?
It's not beyond the bounds of probability.
We had Jack Linden dropping into Lias' thread on voyaging with encouraging supportive noises. "....We do want to keep opening up routes for boating though, so keep the ideas coming. Where we can help the boating community we certainly will."....It's rare to see a Linden here.
Ban lines are the kiss of death for boating routes.
I think that they were a quick-fix that is past its sell-by date.

Well if it's not WRONG then how would it be unfair and punishing to the people on their own land being effected in the same way as everyone else is? Your words... not mine. You just proved my point.

Huh?

That doesn't make any sense...

Banlines are legal. They don't break the rules.

Your supposition is that putting them up is wrong, therefore your suggestion that they be visible from the inside would be forcing something "wrong" on the landowner (in other words: punishing them) for doing something that they're perfectly within their rights to do.

__________________________________________

In addition, I don't disagree that banlines are ugly, a nuisance, a pain in the ass, don't protect privacy, etc. etc.
I just don't think it's my place, or anyone else's, to tell another landowner what they can and can't do on their land. I wouldn't want someone telling me what I can and can't do on mine.

Yes yes yes... AGAIN, nobody disputes that me or anyone else can not tell you what to do on your land. Keep on saying it and I'll keep on agreeing with you. That still does not stop it from being wrong, because of the reasons you have described. It sucks for everyone else. It should also suck for the person that creates the problem.... the landowner who restricts access. They should have to look at it and be inconvenienced by it (just like everyone else) if they want to use the feature. Until LL comes up with a better solution or just does away the feature all together.

Since we now have the option to shut them off in our viewer, they don't bother me much anymore. I do wish they'd show up on the map so we could navigate around them easier.

That would make a lot of sense .. the option of having them visible on a map would mean that they could be visible from a greater distance (by way of the map) without affecting anyone's view.

Why? Why should it suck for them?

It's only a problem for folks that are trying to use land that isn't theirs.
As TundraFire points out, we can turn them off in the viewer, so the problem is access, isn't it?
_______________________________

And Tundra, I love that idea. Map marking would be a fantastic solution.

I couldn't use about 10% of my land at one point because there were banlines across the sim border, and it's too hard to navigate precisely in SL. I had to put prim walls all along the border to keep from having myself and my visitors orbited, and still had to steer clear because sometimes you'd lag through the prims.

That's MY LAND, that I was PAYING FOR, MYSELF, that I couldn't use, because of ban lines.

This is not "landowners vs vagrants", this is "banlines interfering with other landowners".

You keep making out that it's a simple "us vs them" situation. It's not. That shouldn't be surprising. Practically nothing is.

Again, the problem was that something you were navigating was crossing over into land that ISN'T yours, weren't you?

And this argument you're making now is a new one. It's not the same as the "I tried to glide in to land on my own land and hit someone else's banlines." one...

The situation IS simple, as long as you don't move the goalposts.

So how did this property owner's ban lines in another sim cause you to lag over onto their property? The culprit here is not their banlines. It's a laggy inherent infrastructure. Blame Linden Lab for that one if you must, but you neighbor in this case has done no wrong, and no harm to you. Nor has anybody taken away your ability to use your land. You merely can't use their land. Lag is another issue entirely.

That "something I was navigating" was my frigging avatar. Just walking. Lag, the crudeness of the standard linden movement controls, and being unable to see banlines on parcel boundaries.

It's not new. I've brought it up before. So have other people. There's dozens of problems caused by banlines for landowners with no frigging intention of trespassing.

You don't live on mainland, you don't know what it's like, you have no dog in the hunt, go back to your island.

There's 2 things here, peoples right to fly/sail/swim, SL supports the scripts and has sky and ocean and we pay fees for this... and the other is peoples right to privacy, which is chipped away at constantly. Both matter.

Also freedom to sky ocean and the right to privacy are harder to attain on the mainland.. but one shouldn't have to go buy an island just to have these.

I'm not sure the size needed for a good fly or sail, but it's most likely big, so why can't LL make some sims that are specific for flying, that is ban lines are set much lower so people can see what thye fly over, I got taken sailing the other day around Blake sim, it seemed geared all around the sport... a lot of water good landscaping & races set up etc... I don't see why flying is any less worth making something of.

Non flyers could still live around the sim just with low ban lines... or live on the rest of the mainland with full access to them.

There's 2 things here, peoples right to fly/sail/swim, SL supports the scripts and has sky and ocean and we pay fees for this... and the other is peoples right to privacy, which is chipped away at constantly. Both matter.

Also freedom to sky ocean and the right to privacy are harder to attain on the mainland.. but one shouldn't have to go buy an island just to have these.

I'm not sure the size needed for a good fly or sail, but it's most likely big, so why can't LL make some sims that are specific for flying, that is ban lines are set much lower so people can see what thye fly over, I got taken sailing the other day around Blake sim, it seemed geared all around the sport... a lot of water good landscaping & races set up etc... I don't see why flying is any less worth making something of.

Non flyers could still live around the sim just with low ban lines... or live on the rest of the mainland with full access to them.

There is nothing stopping people from flying over the ocean sims, heck it might be a good exorsise to navigate from island to island, the sailing sims has plenty of nice looking islands and no residents that have banlines up.