Disturbing: - Nazi groups still listed in SL

I've played Devil's Advocate many times re the regalia as fet ... arguing PRO, actually. That's a different story and lots of factors in there which I personally don't feel.

I can't be bothered arguing the toss about all this any more, I can see personally I am arguing a tangent anyway.

Ehhm...

I know of someone (from when I was new) who was banned for having the name Skinhead. Though when I look now, there's tons of skin heads so maybe I'm wrong. If I'm remembering right, LL doesn't tolerate this kind of thing. I'd abuse report the group, making clear how offensive it is to you, if indeed it is.

theres a sweet irony in banning nazi things from sl.
seriously, stop worrying about what everyone else is up to ppl.

A lot of response. Because of the evil they perpetrated, in a sense the nazis should never be forgotten, there is a lesson for the future, whether in RL where genocides continue, or indeed in SL where some anti-SL individual or group might one day manage to hack the system and wipe thousands of accounts.

I just want to point out that the USA has a different historical record as to who Che Guevara was, indeed in other countries around the world he was a revolutionary hero, and of course it makes sense for the USA to see him in another light. This is just the same with the IRA in Ireland, only recently are the facts about Irish Oppression in 18th and early 19th century being published in British history books. So there is more than one side to ignorance here. I'm British and for many years I was ignorant about the Irish problems too.

so then we are banning american things from sl next? see where this goes? its never ending.

HEHEHE if Americans get banned from SL then us Brits wouldn't have any reason to complain about unfair competition because of vat

I'm getting the distinct feeling from some of todays posts that a lot of folk have had a pretty crap weekend!

Cheer up guys!! .. Tomorrow's TUESDAY!!!!!!

'night all!

/me leaves .... cradling plate of hotdogs

It's discouraging to see how many people are pathetically eager to ban, ban, ban. The totalitarian impulse is alive and well, it seems.

Nazism is still a subject that hits a raw nerve, to this day. I suspect LL put a ban on such expression because they knew what a general uproar it would create, and how much disruption would result. Hell, I'd love to crash a Nazi sim myself (billions of replicating Stars of David would be my weapon of choice), and I'm anti-griefer! (But then, the sort of in-your-face "Nazi" we're really concerned with - not simple RP'ers who don't mean to advance the ideology - is seriously close to inciting to riot and knows it, and so might count as a griefer anyway).

We need to make this exception just that - an exception, applied only to maintain public order, and very strictly limited to that purpose. People who want to use the Nazi ban as a precedent to ban whatever pushes their buttons need to get a grip. As many other posters are ably pointing out, start down the ban road, and there is no end to it. In the end, we'd ban SL out of existence.

Yeah I know that LL has the right to ban whatever it wants on its own systems. We've been over that. Doesn't make it right.

It's a problematic issue of cross-boundary matters again. In some countries (e.g., Germany), any display of Nazi symbols and the like is a criminal offense. If LL allows this on the computer screens of people in Germany, that *could * attract a prosecutors attention there, to be honest. The problem, again, is that different rules apply in different countries, and so we are back to basic issue of "what rules apply to a service based on one country but accessible from many other countries" -- and there's no easy way to split the baby on that one. "Following everyone's rules" will result in an end to SL, but beyond that it's not clear where the line should be drawn -- at least not to me.

But cant Germans see Nazi Images on the regular old Internet?

In the US its not forbidden because of freedom of speech. Thus the reason to ban Nazi iconography isn't a legal one. Its a choice by LL under the Intolerance clause. Which as far as I know they have stuck by and removed these things.

If some Nazi Group hasn't been dealt with by LL yet, its probably because SL is too big for the Lindens to effectivly police.

The AR probably would have been handled: BUT they missed it in the stack of people ARing their Exes for cheating on them, and people AR'ing griefers they already banned.

I'm going to go out on a limb and chime in here:

Nazi's band from SL? Personally I don't think they should be. I believe free speech should always be guaranteed even when it's hateful, AS LONG as it's kept within the group. If that speech is directed at someone or they take action, then that is an entirely separate issue and they should be banned.

Here in the US I fully support the American Civil Liberties Union. This organization is considered by the political right wing to be radically left, yet the ACLU has frequently come to the defense of the Ku Klux Klan. Why? Because as disgusting as I find them I believe restricting their freedom to speak as they believe restricts my freedoms as well.

Someone mentioned the swastika. Is that banned in SL? I have one here in my own home. It's on the sculpture of buddha that sits on my alter in my living room. I do not associate it with the Nazi's at all.

That all being said, Linden Lab is a private company and therefore free speech doesn't apply. If they have a policy against hate speech then the Nazi's should be no exception. I do hope special consideration is made for WWII roleplay though. Would be kind of odd to have that without the Nazi's. You'd have to restrict it to the Pacific.

Despite my personal feelings I don't see how LL can allow Nazi's in SL since they have so many German soldiers.

I think that if they are going to allow Nazi groups and iconography on free speech grounds - then they should let the rest of us have free speech too.

I agree. Note 4th paragraph.

egg-zactly!!!

what Har said.

eventually, they will do something stupid to get themselves banned. it's inevitable.

Because of the evil we have perpetrated and the genocides we have committed? Good idea. Maybe if I got banned I'd actually get some RL work done for once.

I've had stones thrown at my window years ago because I had a sign saying "no nazis"- I knew who did it and told him to f*** off. We still have right-wing groups here in Germany, and I would prefer SL to be without that kind of garbage really. It's not about free speech. It's also not just because displaying nazi symbols is illegal in Germany (hell, even I played Wolfenstein and loved blasting away the bad guys), it's because they're a bunch of tossers with dangerously stupid ideas.

i feel the same way about america and the church.
i dislike rap music too.

More'n likely.

I did a quick web search, an dis seems like a fairly relevant link

http://www.wisegeek.com/is-it-really-illegal-to-display-the-swastika-symbol-in-germany.htm

Mari

America and the (undefined) church=a bunch of tossers with dangerously stupid ideas? In a previous post, Americans should be banned because of the evil and genocide we perpetrate?

Am I taking something out of context or missing something here? I'm generally in a foul mood today for a variety of RL reasons, so my sense of humor is virtually non-existent, and it's entirely likely that I'm misreading you comments entirely. If so I apologize. Could you clarify them?

softly sings that Boomtown Rats song.......

It's been pretty clear from numerous posts that she harbours some serious ill will towards the US.

Just let them be?? Sorry, but this sort of talk makes me sick. Some people are saying that they should be allowed to role-play, as long as they aren't affecting anyone else? What do you think they're role-playing? Having cups of tea and cake? I think not. You mention other wars, knights, cavemen. Even America. What the Nazi's did to millions of innocent people was inexcusable and a once in a lifetime happening. Well, we can only hope so. When America invaded Iraq, did they arrest millions of inocent men women, children and babies, lock them away in hellish conditions, and then brutally kill them? I would love to hear an actual comparison to what these bastards did, because to many people, there is none. It's not healthy to have these wannabe bastards RP their sick little fantasies which would more than likely be torturing and killing Jews. To what someone said about Klu Klux Klan and Nazi being ok because it's free speech, that's just bloody ridiculous. Funny how things that incite racism, hate and prejudice can be viewed as 'free'. The swastika HAS been around for a long time, and wasn't introduced by the Nazi's, but the word 'Nazi' and the beliefs that come with it have NO PLACE in modern society, if anything else, out of respect for the millions of people who were murdered by them Baby-killers have no place in our society, and we all know that sometimes things don't stop when we log out of SL.

I've even seen a complete Hitler skin and shape with complete outfit in a shop in SL ....... and made my first AR in SL

In Germany we have learned what can happen if you leave the nazis room to expand and the whole world had to suffer because of that. We have a saying that to stop something bad from growing you have to pull it out with all its roots and that is the exact way of how most germans want to treat anything associated with the nazis. so no, we don't grant freedom of speech to them.

Regarding the ability to access nazi-pages on the internet: Our government and many other organizations have tried to have at least the most offending ones removed but have failed to do so due to (mostly) american laws. If people only visit those sites, nothing much will happen but if they save those texts and pictures to their HD they can be prosecuted for it.

I know that banning always is like walking a very thin line but I also feel that it is sometimes justified.