Disturbing: - Nazi groups still listed in SL

I was inncocently checking on the owner of a piece of land and found they were the 'commander' of a group of Nazi roleplayers in SL. If anyone looks up Nazi in groups they will find which group I mean.

I thought Nazism was banned in SL. Certainly it would be illegal for a German citizen to participate in virtual nazism. Hopefully someone will look into this.

I realise there is a fine line here - World-war 2 roleplay which includes German aircraft and tanks would seem acceptable in a platform that allows combat, whereas SS or Gestapo roleplay would be dubious.

I would imagine similar rules would apply to things like KKK or Taliban roleplay - they should be off-limits.

are they allowed on their own closed sims ? only curious

I don't know. It set me thinking about the position re. communism in SL. I'd think a communist group would be OK, but anything calling itself Stalinist, Maoist or Kmehr Rouge wouldn't.

What did their Profile say for 2nd Life or Picks? There might have been some kind of information about belonging to a Nazi group. Then you could look on Search > Groups and see exactly what the purpose of the group is. If you saw any kind of "hate" comments, then you could file an Abuse Report since it would be against the TOS. Let's hope it was a case of blind stupidity, lack of common sense, and having slept through history class.

While I understand the problem for German citizens (see anecdote* below!), I think the issue of Nazis is not one of simple banning. For a start, if you ban them then you simply lose track of them - and they won't stop doing what they are doing.

Secondly, authentic imitation of nazis has to be a good thing, because they were dorks with a uniform fetish, and not that hard to defeat. Having them around to be shot in droves and act as a stupidity magnet can't be a bad thing - otherwise, where would castle wolfenstein be, as a product? There's also quite a lot of Mel Brooks style mileage to be had out of them - especially if they are taking themselves seriously. "Don't be stupid, be a smartie - come and join the Nazi party!"

(*A friend of mine is an ass-spanking German domina. She speaks fluent english, and answers her own phone; she gets about 20-30 calls per year from people she offhandedly describes as "new york jews", who very desperately want an SM scene with a genuinely german lady in Nazi uniform. She has to explain how many years in jail she would serve were she to even agree to the idea: they are quite offended that she feels unable to role-play within their particular taboo. For me this shows that honouring the intent of the Nazis by po-facedly insisting on banning them is in fact contributing to the UPKEEP of their myth and legend, instead of burying it for the obscene lunacy that it really was)

OK so where does this stop? I know people of Caribbean extraction who boycott "Pirates of the Caribbean" and the "Tropico" computer games because it was their ancestors who got to star in real life as the extras, persistently raped, pillaged and put to death by the sword.

Is their outrage worth less than that of the Jewish people? What if someone opens a Sim themed as a Palestinian refugee camp?

AR
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oh yes did I mention ...

AR
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AR them ... just AR them ... without complaints LL haven't got the documentary evidence.

AR them and then don't expect to hear back from Linden. I've reported people for this ... and seen the accounts burned within minutes.

So, whats next? They need 6 million avies that RP as Jew to 'play'with?

There just sick asses playing an even more sick game.

I have yet to see a Hitler shirt, but shirts with the murderer Che on them are sold openly. I guess it is ok to commit mass murder if you do it in the name of equality and the workers of the world.

Hi Gummi, I saw The Producers Saturday night ... "I broke my leg!" ROFL

but Cinders is right and related directly to a TOS entry, hate speech. No-one is saying the Carribean peoples don't also have an issue but the Nazis make themselves a huge target by their regalia. They attract the attention as you yourself point out.

So this is actually the fashion police?

To my mind, there's a simple way to keep the PC complaints to a minimum. If it's ever been the subject of a Mel Brooks gag, it's OK. "Oiiii! Schvartzers!" etc....

That's got more to do with people being ignorant.

"What's that on your shirt?"

<proud look> "It's Che Guevara!"

"Aha ok ... and who is he then?"

"He's a revolutionary!!"

"Aha. And what did he do then?"

"Ummm"

Actually Ive always heard that Nazi iconography was forbidden under the tolerance clause - and was removed when reported.

And Nazi groups renamed.

A couple of years ago someone tried to start a Nazi BDSM fetish group and the whole thing got banned. And it was only there for the fetish aspects. Not a racist agenda.

Interesting: you ascribe even these imitators with a lot of power-to-frighten.

Why?

Would you have banned "The Producers", on the same reasoning? Surely it's a lot more effective to look at something as absurd, than big up the perps by describing them as "sick"?

Still ...

It's just one of those things which can't be left out as a loose cannon. Like many other things, there is no accounting for where people will take even the most innocent of things never mind the iconography of WW2.

Well said.

LOL at The Producers though.

Well yeah, I understood why the group was banned. Its just that if a Nazi fetish group is banned - which didn't have a racist agenda, You'd think the Nazi groups with actual racist agendas would basically be banned as soon as they were reported.

Hmm, unless they're outwardly offending people and making a nuisance of themselves they should just be left alone. Yes, what the Nazi's did was wrong, I won't argue against that. But the uniforms kick-ass, and WW2 roleplay could be fun, especially if players are taking it seriously.

But if they're going around making racist or otherwise hateful/hurtful comments then it should be ARed.

The key thing is not to overreact just because of the Nazi symbolism. It is something that happened, nothing is going to change that. Showing intolerance rather than looking at it and moving on is just as bad.

Cavemen likely forced themselves upon cavewomen, yet we're happy to watch the Flintstones and allow cavemen all over the place.
Knights and medieval soldiers have done their share of raping and pillaging, yet we're happy to let people dress up as knights and perform mock-jousts.
A lot of messed up stuff happened in the Napoleonic wars and wars around then, yet we're happy to have re-enactments and the TV shows set during those periods.

I think this is a nice thing to say. But a little on the innocent side. Ever lived in a place where the National Front is the order of the day? I had the joy of "living" in Kingstanding in Birmingham for a while.

The iconography is outright forbidden in many countries, notably Germany itself. German people in SL - not one of whom I have ever met being a Nazi - don't want to see it usually, and have to put up with ill thought out racism ...

IRL there are many groups which prey on minorities.

Meh.

Why am I even bothering to post anything on the Forums today.

I agree.

If LL is going to bother with an Intolerance clause - then Neo-Nazis and Nazis should be prohibited. So should Klu Klux Klan Imagry,and a few other things.


Now if LL suddenly decides to get rid of the Intolerance clause and changes it to "Complete Free Speech in SL" Maybe it would be different. But thats not what we have, and thus why should the Nazis get free speech and not the rest of us?

/me looks at my typo which is now quoted and therefore no point in amending it ... omg!! lol

/me fixed your typo for you =)

Every time I write the word "account" at work (which is a lot) I have a secret little fear that one day the spellchecker will fail ... LOL

I like you! Well said.

While this subject might be edging on a beaten horse, honestly, as an entire society I think we can get a little carried away by visual association and symbolism. After all, the swastika was not created by Nazis, yadda yadda yadda ad nauseum. We are a visual people, and SL is a testament to that fact, but ACTIONS DO speak louder. And we all have our buttons.

But until a group actually DO something hateful or that is perhaps reflective of those who once wore the clothes they're wearing from time to time (and really, no one can dispute the German military et al have always been the snappiest dressers in both WW), should we be ready to lynch them? More data is needed.

And I am so not touching the catharsis and benefits of fetish roleplay between BDSM afficiandos. What happens behind closed doors as long as no one gets hurt, who are WE do judge?

My two Lindens

Indeed, many wars were fight. And as always, nasty things happened, but..
Murder for the 'filtering' of the human, to create some kind of Uber-Ras has nothing to do with wars. And thats the whole thing what the nazi shit is about.