Cartel (forum) Group Notices.

Hey all.

I have been thinking about this for a couple of days now and wondering if I should say anything..but because I am curious and cant work out what is wrong or right in my own mind I am asking here.

I may be of a minority and unpopular in my opinion but I actually don't want to receive notices advertising another members business and latest fantastic offer..e.t.c. I am assuming the group is a social one and was of the mind that it was free from commercial spam..

Could anyone in the know explain to me the "policy's" regarding members sending out group notices.. Is it going to be a regular thing having commercial ads sent in to the group?

I know, I know I could turn off notices but I don't want to have to resort to that as I like seeing the other updates come through..invites to parties I never attend and such... and I would miss them if I resorted to turning off group notices.

I am genuinely curious and wondered how everyone else feels about this?

I'd suggest you talk to Chris, Garrett, and LittleMe.

I agree with you Tiana. I don't like the advertisement notices either. They won't kill me,but it is kind of annoying. I do like the party ones though. We need more parties,so I can get drunk and dance on tables!!!

I am of the mind that a LOT of us are business owners in the group and if we all did it.. it would be spam city...

I don't know, it just does not sit comfortably with me.


Yay bring on the parties! I so have to get to one soon!

That is my thought as well. Should I send a notice everytime I have an empty apartment?

I have very mixed feelings about this question. I sent notices to the cartel group when I first opened my cafe, and also for the first couple of regular weekly parties I had there.

I have since stopped using the cartel group for this purpose, because like others in this thread, I'd hate to see it used as general venue promotion for everyone in the group who owns a venue. I just use my own group channel now.

Yet, I can't deny that I benefited from using the cartel channel early on. Cartel members account for maybe a half of the "regulars" at my weekly events, and even though I no longer use the cartel group channel to promote my cafe I am very grateful for the continuing support of my cartel friends.

So even though I understand and agree with the concern about using the cartel group for promotion, I can't really say "ban it" since my own place benefited from it, and would not have grown as fast as it has without that push.

A while ago some cartel members had talked about arranging some space on the cartel land for new creators to sell their goods. Maybe it would be helpful also to allow new venue owners to use the cartel channel to promote some limited number of events as they are getting their venues off the ground. I'm not exactly sure how that would be implemented - it's just an idea to toss out there.

i think announcing a social event is ok, if it's an actual social event. a store opening or sale or wutever is not worthy of notices.

also, i think the event should be announced once. this countdown business is really annoying, and repeating the event announcement because there is some small change is also annoying.

I have to say I thought I would be roasted for bringing this topic up but as I am a stubborn little brat I could not keep my thoughts to myself!

I to am fine with social events...after all the group was formed so people could get together in world and thats a good thing. It was not formed in my opinion as an advertising channel.

I know I sound an old moody about this but I really believe if one does it then the rest should quite freely.. and watch the group numbers start to drop because its not why people joined.. No one should have to resort to turning off notices to avoid commercial spam in a social group.

I agree with Tiana. Also like Madhu's idea of a new business owner perhaps announcing the grand opening once or twice.

IMO I don't mind being reminded of a party a couple times. I have a horrible memory though and appreciate the reminder.

IBTD (In before the disappearance, since many think discussing the Hangout in the forums is unfair advertising, so this thread will probably be AR'd and sent to Linden Review before you can say Jack Rabbit)

I think a commercial notice or two to fete a Cartel member opening a new business or moving to their own sim is fine - that is of genuine interest to many in the group. However, some have sent the same weekly notices of commercial events, sales, and offers that one would expect to see in their own store's Group to the Cartel Group, and I agree with others here that I find that jarring.

It's a social group, not an advertising channel.
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I don't mind being reminded of parties as many times as necessary. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on "ok" and closed out the notice, instead of the open file for the landmark Anything socially related is worthwhile and I want to hear all about it!

But I also dislike getting notices for businesses. A grand opening is one thing - I do think we need to support our members so that sits ok with me. If I'm interested I'll keep it. But forcing it in my face over and over isn't going to get me to your store and it's only going to annoy me to be honest.

Nah, we save roasting for very large offenses, like typos.

My personal feeling is pretty much in ilne with yours, Tiana. Social events, not business advertisements. The difficulty with this is that business-related events often *are* social events in SL. I think that a notice of "Best In Black Contest at XXX Pub at 7pm tonight!" is pretty cut and dried. But if I decided to open an art gallery and wanted to host an opening night event for my friends there, I could consider it a social event, while others might consider it a commercial advertisement. I mean, where's the dividing line? If the art gallery doesn't sell stuff and is only for looking at art, does that make it noncommercial and therefore OK, but if I sell my art there, it's not?

As for multiple announcements of social events, I'm guilty of this. I try not to be excessive, but my thought on the matter is that if I announce a formal event 3 weeks ahead of time, most people are glad to be reminded 4 days ahead that they intended to go buy that new dress. Finally, a today's-the-day notice seems appropriate so that people remember there's an event that day. I think that's fairly standard for live music events, etc. and have tried to stick to the model I have seen used for those.

Ultimately, any guidelines that are put in place, as Damien pointed out, need to come from Chris, LittleMe, and Garrett, though. I'm just spouting off opinions here.

I guess the line could get fuzzy.. I would consider a gathering at an art gallery as a social thing and if I happened to like the art and be able to buy it then that would be my choice.. same as going to a club..cafe e.t.c..if its a social gathering then I would want to know about it..if I happen to tip when there great!

I guess with me it must be the store spam...but then is that fair given what I have just said about the other places.. Its a tough one thats for sure.

Hmmm thinking cap on! lol

hmmm.. I think I object to "I'm opening a new store - come buy my stuff" notices, but I don't object to Cartel members who have events at their own establishments who might want to let us know about them, for example, Madhu's Monday night salons.

At first, I wasn't a member of the Madhu's Cafe group, so I would not have seen a notice sent to that group, but would have seen a Forum Cartel notice. Madhu isn't selling anything...just providing a fantastic setting for some great music, dancing and chatting.

So, I guess that's where I draw the line. Selling something? I don't want to see the notice in the Forum Cartel Group. Having a party or an event? Love to!

And by the way...psst..there's a beach party going on over in the Neverending thread.

Also to say.. I don't want to see Ad's saying "Come to my place and buy my stuff...e.t.c..."
If anything it makes me make a note to NEVER visit that place...

Oh I dont know..

While I can personally appreciate the notices about club,art events etc....they still fall under a business promoting thier business. If you allow one type,you need to allow them all.

I dunno ... I find notices of folks' weekly "Best in Whatever" events a little too commercial for my tastes.

Madhu, I appreciate your discretion in using the Hangout notices, I wanted to be sure to say that your moderate use when you were starting out seemed totally ok to me. It was your first cafe, you were known by many in the group, and you stopped doing it once you were up and running.

A word about group IM: personally, I feel more leniently about that. If someone wanted to send out a single group IM for their commercial event, I don't have a problem with that. If they do a countdown to their contest or sale, that would get a little much.
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This is all based upon my memory of past discussions on this and my personal opinion - I haven't had a chance to fully discuss this with the rest of the owner/management team of the group:

I'm not sure that I remember the Group ever having any formal policy on this -- and I *think* that the goal is to not have to actually establish a bunch of "formal" policies.

I do know, from the past, that it is pretty much considered okay for a new business/venue to announce itself to the group, but I don't think we want to get to the point of them announcing their latest sale/promo/whatever. I think the party announcements are always welcome because we are a social group. There is a difference between an actual social party and a promo social event at a club. Also, given the fact that right now not all group notices actually get delivered to everyone, I don't really have a problem with a reminder notice or two on a party - especially for those being held at the Hangout itself.

In my mind, it would simply be better to handle any possible problems on a case by case basis. People should feel free to IM Chris, Brenda, Garrett, and myself if you think that we should look into and/or handle a specific situation. If it becomes a real issue then we might need to establish an actual 'policy', but I think we want to avoid that if we can - part of what this group is all about is tolerance as much as possible and as few real "rules" as we can get by with.



Rio - I have this Personal Planner that I bought that lets me put in events and it will give me reminder notices, with a sleep function even. You can attach it to yourself or as a HUD. Let me know if you want the info and landmark.

Yes please!!!! Thanks Lil. You might have just saved my SL social life!

Yeah thats so true.. I totally agree.

I also think that group notices should remain social only.

But I've wondered if there isn't a way to make this group work for business owners, as well. Claire created a note card which lists member businesses when we had the Great Shopping Tour this past winter. Having this list available is certainly beneficial for those on the list and fun for those looking for places to check out. But it needs to be maintained.

Another idea would be to create some sort of poster wall at the Hangout (maybe like the snapshot corkboard beside the bar to avoid an ad-farm like display) in the other room where group members can stick an ad (compressed and sized properly). Not sure how that would add to the lag, though.

I always thought dat washow it was s'posed to be anyway. Last Summer, for example, I'd let folks know about my fireworks shows there -- but I wouldn't post "I have a new widget for sale" there. Lots of other places for dat.

I have a business in SL. I never use the Notices to advertise it. I am guilty of pushing it here in the forums.

I do want to announce my pool parties. Every Sunday. I pay for the DJ and I want everyone to come. You aren't invited there for me to sell you anything. Someone asked me to put out a donation box and it is sort of hidden as well.

My event is for the pleasure of seeing my Cartel friends and making new ones. That is all. I appreciate the donations and I really appreciate tipping the DJ. (I do not get a cut).

For my two cents on this question: Notices should be non-commerical only. Madhu's party on Monday nights qualifys 110%. Madhu has never tried to sell me anything or invest in anything.

So answer this how often should I send a notice? Right now I send one on Friday when I am sure of the DJ and again on Sunday afternoon. Is that enough or too much?

"CX"

I seem to be getting double notices from all the groups I'm in. The second one with an added 'Oops! Didn't go though. One more time', etc. I appreciate the fact that some are not receiving notices, that it's not the fault of the senders, but getting double emails from every group is sometimes just too much... Imagine adding count downs.

I love hearing about members and their grand openings, and such. I feel exited for them, and when you're just starting out, it's quite normal to want to let your friends and acquaintances know. I don't want this to stop, but I feel that once you're established (1-2 months?), letting people know becomes advertising.

The difference may be subtle and difficult to explain in black and white, but most people get it. The problem comes with those who always need to push the boundaries. They'll say "Well, it's not exactly clear, so I went ahead and did it." So far, it hasn't become a big deal for me, but I've groaned once or twice with what some have considered 'information for my own advantage'. I don't like to feel like this group (friendship) is being used for personal gain.