Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

!!!!!!

And they still seem to think it's about a personal grudge against the OP(s) somehow.

If I walked into a room and everyone in it got the same impression of me (and it was negative), I'd examine my own behavior before I'd rail against them for their conclusion.

Amity: I feel fairly certain Desmond was being tongue in cheek, there, although you may have just been using his post as a jumping off point, I realise.

I don't accept them as a lovely or healthy thing. I'm not pro-Gorean by any means... they don't even accept "my kind of people". I had a Gorean guy with a furry girlfriend as a neighbor for a while because they don't allow furries in Gor... it was *just like* a mixed marriage in the US South in the bad old days. Gor *is* pretended racism... but I'm not for one minute going to suggest it be against the ToS, and don't you dare tell me I'm suggesting it's a "lovely healthy thing for people to get involved with".

It is. But different types of violence have different causes, different effects, and it means doing different things to mitigate different types.

Pediatricians specialize in the health of children, for example. That doesn't mean that pediatricians are cold, callous, and narrow-minded for not caring about the health of everyone.

Argent - how, do you feel, Gor is "pretended racism"? Or did you mean virtual species-ism?

*this thread is beginning to sound like a focus group based upon this film:*

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110759

*(Based upon my own phrase "species-ism." Lol.)

There is a reason furries are not allowed in Gor and nothing to do with racism. Gor is based on a set of books which furries did not exist in, if you wonder around themed roleplay areas as a charactor that does fit it disturbes the whole atmosphere. You wouldn't be able to go to a medieval roleplay sim as a robot. Everyone is requested to dress in clothes fitting to the scene or some do actually play animals from the books like larls (large catlike creatures).

Many Gorean roleplayers also have other accounts such as furries, tinies, vampires etc.

The problem with what's come from the "bdsm-aphobia" here is that it's assuming all rape stems from one sexual preferance, there is no blame laid on other sexualities at all, no blame in this thread on social circumstances or alcoholism and all the other myriad of things that make up an abusive situation.

It'd be like pediatricians saying all single parents aren't good enough and we should stop supporting them.

Well it is racism of sorts, but mostly based on gender (panther vs the city folk etc... )

It's more racism in regards to regions (Say everyone was purple and the people of city 1 had prejudice against city 2 because of their laws)

Indeed, reminds me of Jack Thompson's arguments against video games...

This is spot on but will just add that not all free women of Gor wear veils, it depends where on Gor they are living/from, much like Earth. My alt has never put on a veil. There are many cultures and positions in Gor but most only open their eyes to the masters with slaves if they haven't travelled around the roleplay sims as they tend to stand out in shopping malls.

I agree that rape is a complex problem (hence why it should be studied), and think it is pointless to blame any particular group. And I would agree that it is wrong to stereotype individuals based on affliation with a particular group (e.g., bdsm community, or a "cabal" or "pack" of liberal feminists).

So would you disagree with banning bdsm?

Peter Singer (an Aussie philosopher) writes about speciesism in his book Animal Liberation.

Or perhaps some of us "wannabe libertarians" care enough about women to see them as free individuals who are capable of making their own choices, rather than members of a monolithic group, or as childlike innocents in need of protection from the big bad world.

Oh of course.

Though as a society and a species, we have some strange conventions.

Entire nations send their young boys off to war to annihilate each other. This can only be characterised as common, typical behaviour if you look at history.

Or consider treatment of animals. I'm sure if you asked a sheep, it would prefer the indignity of sex rather than becoming 'rack of lamb'.

Yet from the human side, one is sick and twisted while the other is twenty dollars with a side salad and vegetables included. Hmm, been ages since I've had lamb (and no, I don't mean 'had' lamb!)

Not everyone is that way. I think it was Morrissey who smelled barbeque at the Coachella Valley festival, and said "I can smell burning flesh and I hope to God it's human." To most people, that's monstrous. To him... he's just an animal lover. But only in the figurative sense I am pretty sure.

Doing awful things to women (as a group) is just one of a wide spectrum of bizarre human behaviours.

* * * * *

A word about the burqa though, mentioned above.

Sure, there are intense cultural overtones, but before anyone carries it too far, consider: it's insanely nasty in that part of the world.

A brutal desert with intense heat, skin~wasting sandstorms, and flies that lay eggs in your skin. Burrowing tracks as larvae before they burst out to lay eggs in someone else. Who *wouldn't* want to wear a burqa most of the time outside in such an environment?

As such it's not quite the step for them to cover themselves completely, as it might be for someone enjoying a Starbucks during a gentle misty morning on the Pacific coast.

When working in the South Pacific in nontouristy areas, I met plenty of island girls who generally hated to wear anything above the waist, again a sensible decision. We must seem quite burqa~like to them ourselves!



And yes, for those wondering, I did quite enjoy my time in the South Pacific.

The catch is, if someone is acting as a group or perceived as such then they will be dealt with as a group.

The problem is also those attacking something usually attack all that are involved as a group... they are not attacking or speaking against individuals but the group as a whole

I think many miss the problem when I ask for unbiased data.

There are reports that are unbiased, that followed proper research procedures (such as those that didn't use street hookers serving niche clients as examples of all in the sex industry)

I think Gor is creepy and weird. I think lots of things in life are. But I think people should have the freedom to do things I believe are creepy and weird, as long as what they do does not directly harm others.

And a lot of perfectly nice people seem to enjoy Gor. I don't get it, but the world does not revolve around what I "get" or not. Nor should it.

A very small number of (mostly) men do control much of the world's economic and political power. However to generalize from that to "all men are the rulers of the world" is nonsensical.

Some women enjoy role-playing as Gorean sex slaves. Does this mean all women enjoy that? No. To think so would be as absurd as your implication that all men are rulers of the world.



If you are reduced to implying the people you are arguing with are racists--in the absence of any evidence--it is probably a sign you are losing the debate.

"Everything she does is..." 'she'?? Wow, you really are naive, aren't you? How many of the 'women' posting in this thread would pass a voice verification test? (Now listen to the multitude of reasons they will give for not doing so, - outrage, don't have a mike, who are you to ask, change the subject)

It has everything to do with SL. The whole point, which both you and many of the other self-serving, selfish, contributors to this thread still have failed to grasp completely, is that what some people do in SL affects everyone in SL.

Can you really, hand-on-heart say that what the ageplayers did in SL had no effect on the rest of SL residents? All the bad press, all the exposés, all the mud. The abandonment of SL by many companies, and the others that will not now touch SL with a bargepole ("that's the place where paedophiles hang out, isn't it?" affect us all, as SL need the investors and advertisers, whether you like them or not, and the development and even the survival of SL depends on them. That was the whole reason that the CEO stepped aside and Mark Kingdon was brought in, and he doing what he was brought in to do, to clean up.

By labelling the rape, torture, mutilation and murder of women as a 'game' just shows how sick some of the residents in SL are. The cries of 'this is not real, it is just pixels' does not wash now, as the same cry from the paedophiles did not wash back then.

I am all in favour of sex in SL, sex is not banned in RL and should not be banned in SL either, however, in RL:

a) Child sex is illegal,
b) Rape, torture, mutilation and murder of women is illegal,
c) Animal sex is illegal

All the above are sick, practiced by sick people, and when their activities are curbed in RL they bring their sick 'games' into SL. I for one do not want them here, and I have every right to say so, and I do. Let the majority decide, not the vociferous few.

If the press cannot find any more child sex in SL (although it still goes on), then they will turn their attention to the extreme violence sickos, and I for one do not want to see SL sacrificed on their altar of 'freedom'.

And before you start shouting about why don't we all ban shooting and combat, as killing in RL is also illegal, it is all about intent. The reasons that people kill in RL are not present when people 'kill' in SL. However, people who get their rocks off on any of the above depravity in RL are also doing it in SL to get their rocks off, and that is wrong, and harmful to the whole of SL.

Rock

Answering back--talking back--questioning assumptions. These are all good things. The answer to "bad speech" (speech you disagree with) is to push back. But when push back becomes efforts to restrict others freedom of expression, you are going to encounter principled and significant resistance.

I'm not saying you are calling for censorship of any kind. Other people on this thread expressing similar positions to yours have. I'm sorry if I have lumped you in with them unjustly.

Short answer: I disagree with the notion that bdsm be banned from Second Life.

Longer, more thoughtful, more time-consuming, and apparently more boring answers in this thread:

/327/96/321867/1.html#post2436078
/327/96/321867/4.html#post2436182
/327/96/321867/17.html#post2437482
/327/96/321867/20.html#post2437745

Actually a lot of the women in Gor can pass voice tests as voice is used a lot OOC there. Group voice is often used in raids/battles to keep in touch as impossible to run/shoot etc and type at the same time.

Rape may be illigal in RL, but couples engaging in consensual rape play is not illigal anywhere as far as I know.

I would say more men in Gor are 'murdered' in roleplay than women. Gor is a harsh world where the word for stranger and enemy are the same. Male or female. It does not mean that the people behind the charactors have no respect for women or abuse them, in fact the master/slave relationship can be very close and is based on trust.

NOBODY gets raped in Gor against their will and when it does happen, with concent, it's part of a storyline of the charactor. Yes Gor does attract some unsavoury charactors the same as everywhere, but they normally don't last long as removed.

Have you seen the comic or movie "Fritz the cat"? Have you read the graphic novel "Maus"? How about the book "Who Censored Roger Rabbit" or the movie "Who Killed Roger Rabbit" inspired by it? Using "funny animals" as a metaphor for race has a long history, going back to the middle ages and no doubt earlier.

Yes, we should, if LL is really serious about free speech and diversity.

Define irony.

A homophobic male claiming to know how women feel upset that maybe other males are saying things contrary to his propaganda

Failing to realize that his crusade to ban that which disturbs him would result in others seeking to have his fun banned because it disturbs them...



Sad that propaganda by news corporations seeking ratings during the slump seasons could damage a company's reputation because nobody bothers to look behind the curtain.




You keep pets! You treat human beings as pets, that is sick!
You use treats and rewards to coerce them into doing sexual acts you sicko!

Rape, murder, mutilation is illegal regardless of gender you sexist.

Nothing happens in SL that is not consensual

There are places where sex with animals, children (please define child: height, age, maturity, or a combination of factors) is legal.

There are also places where there are no laws (or they are not enforced) to protect people from rape, murder or mutilation

Maybe you should try focusing on the really real world, starting with the man in the mirror.




You are apparently a naive soul that believes propaganda given to you. There are all the same reasons rp'd out in killing in sl as in rl... All those base emotions of humanity played out like a Shakespearean drama for fun in a role-play sim.